1988????

[IamRedeemed]

Your post seemed to indicate that because Hanegraff uses the Bible that he can't be teaching falsely. If I misunderstood you, I apologize, but this post seems to indicate the same message. I have heard Hank Hanegraff say things that make you raise an eyebrow on more than one occasion. It has been years since I listened to his programming so don't ask me to tell you anything specific as I cannot do that after all of this time, but I can distinctly recall that when I stopped listening to him, it because of some of the things he said that didn't jive and gave cause for pause.

What has happened? You lost me there.[/color][/size][/font]

He who, Camping or Hanegraff? Camping makes most of his stuff up based on knight-jump exegesis, erroneous assumptions, and pure imagination. Hanegraff is pretty much content to let the Scripture say what it says.

 

[Maranatha27]

The reason for the 1988 is because of a particular prophesy by Jesus Christ himself. Matt. 24: 32. The prophesy has to do with Israel becoming a nation again. Israel is the "fig tree" mentioned cf. joel 1:7, Hosea 9:10. with that said Christ said as soon as you see this happen know that my coming is near even at the doors, this generation will not pass away untill all things are fullfilled. They go back in scripture and calculate the date of a generation and find it to be aprox. 40 years. That said Israel did become a nation in 1948. add 40 years 1988. This is how they get there... just it didnt happen...its still future....it will happen though. Things are certinly getting close though...rapture ready..dont be caught with your pants down

 

[robertmejiayah]

I have studied much of it for myself and find it to be true. I know that the End of the Church Age was back after May 21, 1988 I believe. I have come outside of the Mormon Church when I came to know the Lord and His Real Plan for the End Times when He will return on May 21, 2011 for the Rapture before the End of the World on Oct 21, 2011.

Family Radio Worldwide, Bible Minstries International, EBibleFellowship, May 21 2011 Websites, and more are available. Just send me a message if you need all the links that I know about that will help for further study in the Holy Word of God, the Holy Bible.

Please Check the Holy Bible King James Version for the most accurate English Translation of the Holy Bible and pray to God. He will reveal all truth to you by the gift and power of the Holy Spirit. Study the Holy Bible. Read the Bible and Pray daily that God may open your spiritual eyes and spiritual ears.

 

[Weasel7711]

I have studied much of it for myself and find it to be true. I know that the End of the Church Age was back after May 21, 1988 I believe. I have come outside of the Mormon Church when I came to know the Lord and His Real Plan for the End Times when He will return on May 21, 2011 for the Rapture before the End of the World on Oct 21, 2011.

Family Radio Worldwide, Bible Minstries International, EBibleFellowship, May 21 2011 Websites, and more are available. Just send me a message if you need all the links that I know about that will help for further study in the Holy Word of God, the Holy Bible.

Please Check the Holy Bible King James Version for the most accurate English Translation of the Holy Bible and pray to God. He will reveal all truth to you by the gift and power of the Holy Spirit. Study the Holy Bible. Read the Bible and Pray daily that God may open your spiritual eyes and spiritual ears.

Oh good then I wont have to pay off my student loans.

 

[revanneosl]

Back in 1988, somebody printed and widely distributed a book entitled something like "88 Reasons the Rapture Will Happen in 1988". I was a brand-spankin' new Pastor at the time, and asked the other members of the local ministerial association if they'd gotten the book in the mail, and all of them had recieved it too.

It was full of the typical book-of-Daniel-plus-loads-of-arithmetic that you see, in those sorts of books.

Well, of course 1988 came & went & no rapture. The next spring, we all got another book in the mail, that basically said "whoops! forgot to carry the 1"

I hate to think of all of the $ wasted on printing & mailing those two books that could have, I don't know, fed the poor or something.

So maybe your radio call-in guy read the first book way back when, was utterly convinced, and has simply forced all of his experiences since into reconciliation with his preconceived narrative.

 

[Bible2]

IamRedeemed quoted a link in message #10:

"In this book he proclaims like a modern day prophet
that the Church Age ended in 1988 ..."

The Bible never refers to a "Church Age" because
the Church will continue throughout all ages
(Ephesians 3:21).

 

[Bible2]

GratiaCorpusChristi posted in message #11:

This is based on the classic dispensationalist belief
that the rise of national Israel, in 1948, heralds
the end of the age.

One doesn't have to be a dispensationalist to believe
that the re-establishment of the state of Israel by
U.N. Resolution in November, 1947 was a herald of the
endtimes.

In the parable of the fig tree (Matthew 24:32-34),
the fig tree could represent Israel (Hosea 9:10), and
the re-budding of the fig tree could represent the
re-establishment of the state of Israel.

Matthew 24:34 could mean that the generation that saw
the November, 1947 re-establishment of the state of
Israel won't pass away until the tribulation and
the second coming of Jesus have happened.

If a generation usually passes away after 70 years
(Psalms 90:10), then the second coming of Jesus may
need to happen 69 years after the November, 1947 re-
establishment of the state of Israel, or in 2016.

If we include the year 2016 as being the final year
of the seven-year tribulation which must immediately
precede the second coming of Jesus (Matthew 24:29-31),
then the seven-year tribulation could begin in 2010.

 

[Bible2]

Weasel7711 posted in message #13:

Christ said himself that no one knows the date ...

"... of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew
24:36).

Here Jesus didn't say that no man will know the year
of His second coming, nor does His statement mean
that no man "will" know the day of His second coming,
for He said that the Holy Spirit would reveal to us
all truth and show us things to come (John 16:13).

Compare Paul's statement: "the things of God knoweth
no man" (1 Corinthians 2:11). Are we to stop there and
Say "Oh, well, we can't know the things of God"? Of
course not. We need to read on: "the things of God
knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have
received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit
which is of God; that we might know the things that
are freely given to us of God" (1 Corinthians
2:11-12).

So when Jesus said "of that day and hour knoweth no
man" (Matthew 24:36), He didn't mean that we can't
know the day and hour, but that we can't know them
apart from the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he
revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets"
(Amos 3:7). This means that God won't send Jesus
back to the earth without having first revealed to
His prophets (through the Holy Spirit) when He is
going to send Jesus back to the earth.

God could have revealed in the book of Daniel the day
that He is going to send Jesus back to the earth.
Daniel 12:11-12 (cf. Revelation 16:15) could mean
that we will need to wait until the 1,335th day after
the abomination of desolation for Jesus to come back.

At the very least, we can know that Jesus isn't coming
back until after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31,
Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). So the Church
will have to go through the tribulation (Revelation
13:10, 14:12-13).

 

[Bible2]

WannaWitness posted in message #15:

Jesus will come as a thief in the night ...

Jesus won't come as a thief in the night to faithful
Christians (1 Thessalonians 5:4), but only to
unfaithful Christians (Revelation 3:3b). There will
be Christians who will still be on the earth during
the final stage of the tribulation, who will be
encouraged by Jesus to remain faithful so as to avoid
His coming on them as a thief (Revelation 16:15).

WannaWitness posted in message #15:

All we can do, as believers, is know by the signs
that His return is soon, be on our best behavior and
serve Him as best we can, and look up as our
redemption draws near.

Faithful Christians will look up as their redemption
draws near when they see Jesus coming in the clouds
after the tribulation (Luke 21:27-28, Matthew
24:29-31, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

 

[garry2]

The Bible never refers to a "Church Age" because
the Church will continue throughout all ages
(Ephesians 3:21).

IamRedeemed no longer posts here, how far back are you going to go to continue seeing your name up in lights.

 

[Bible2]

garry2 posted in message #30:

IamRedeemed no longer posts here, how far back are
you going to go to continue seeing your name up in
lights.

We shouldn't be seeking to put our own name in lights,
but the name of the Lord (2 Corinthians 4:5) and His
perfect Word (2 Timothy 4:2-4).

 

[garry2]

We shouldn't be seeking to put our own name in lights,
but the name of the Lord (2 Corinthians 4:5) and His
perfect Word (2 Timothy 4:2-4).

You are, by posting to one that no longer posts here.

 

[Weasel7711]

"... of that day and hour knoweth no man" (Matthew
24:36).

Here Jesus didn't say that no man will know the year
of His second coming, nor does His statement mean
that no man "will" know the day of His second coming,
for He said that the Holy Spirit would reveal to us
all truth and show us things to come (John 16:13).

Compare Paul's statement: "the things of God knoweth
no man" (1 Corinthians 2:11). Are we to stop there and
Say "Oh, well, we can't know the things of God"? Of
course not. We need to read on: "the things of God
knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have
received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit
which is of God; that we might know the things that
are freely given to us of God" (1 Corinthians
2:11-12).

So when Jesus said "of that day and hour knoweth no
man" (Matthew 24:36), He didn't mean that we can't
know the day and hour, but that we can't know them
apart from the revelation of the Holy Spirit.

"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he
revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets"
(Amos 3:7). This means that God won't send Jesus
back to the earth without having first revealed to
His prophets (through the Holy Spirit) when He is
going to send Jesus back to the earth.

God could have revealed in the book of Daniel the day
that He is going to send Jesus back to the earth.
Daniel 12:11-12 (cf. Revelation 16:15) could mean
that we will need to wait until the 1,335th day after
the abomination of desolation for Jesus to come back.

At the very least, we can know that Jesus isn't coming
back until after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31,
Mark 13:24-27; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). So the Church
will have to go through the tribulation (Revelation
13:10, 14:12-13).

I feel it is a waste of time to try and set dates. Just look at the JW's. Not even the spirit knows, not even the Son knows. We have a job to do, why not do it, then trust God for Him to come back when the time comes. Nothing we can do can change it anyway so there is no point in scrambling to figure it out. IMO it wastes time.

 

[Bible2]

garry2 posted in message #32:

Originally Posted by Bible2

We shouldn't be seeking to put our own name in
lights ...

You are, by posting to one that no longer posts here.

By not using our own name when we post, but a name
which points to Jesus (2 Corinthians 4:5) or to His
Word the Bible (2 Timothy 4:2), we can avoid the
accusation that by posting we are seeking to put our
own name in lights.

And we should never hesitate to reply publicly to a
post made by someone who no longer posts here, if the
post that poster made contains a false idea which
could still be held by some of the people who still
post here, and by some of the people (possibly even
including the poster of the false idea himself) who
no longer post here but still read here, for the
purpose of this forum is the public exchange of ideas,
not just one-on-one discussions which could be carried
on privately by email.

 

[Bible2]

Weasel7711 posted in message #33:

I feel it is a waste of time to try and set dates.

It isn't a waste of time to try and set dates, if our
efforts are based on a sincere attempt to interpret
what the Bible itself teaches, for Jesus said that
He has foretold us all things (Mark 13:23) and that
the Holy Spirit will guide us into all truth and show
us things to come (John 16:13) and that He will do
nothing without first revealing it to His servants
the prophets (Amos 3:7). So there's absolutely no
reason not to search the Biblical prophecies for the
future date of the return of Jesus.

Weasel7711 posted in message #33:

Just look at the JW's.

We shouldn't look at the JW's, but to those such as
Daniel who believed the prophecies which had come
before him and successfully interpreted them
literally to arrive at an understanding of them which
helped him to set a course of action (Daniel 9:2-19).

Weasel7711 posted in message #33:

Not even the spirit knows ...

Nowhere does the Bible say that not even the Holy
Spirit knows the future date of the return of Jesus,
for the Father knows that date (Matthew 24:36), and
the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father (compare
Mark 13:11 and Matthew 10:19-20).

In fact, it is precisely through the Holy Spirit that
we can know the things of the Father (1 Corinthians
2:11-12), that we can know the things that "no man
knoweth":

"... of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the
angels of heaven, but my Father only" (Matthew 24:36).

"... even so the things of God knoweth no man, but
the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the
spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God;
that we might know the things ..." (1 Corinthians
2:11-12).

"... when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will
guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of
himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he
speak: and he will shew you things to come" (John
16:13).

"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he
revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets"
(Amos 3:7).

Knowing, through the Holy Spirit, through the
Biblical prophecies, the future date of the return of
Jesus, will help us greatly during the coming
tribulation to endure it with patience and faith
(Revelation 13:10, 14:12-13), for it's much easier
to endure a bad time when you know how long it is
going to last, as opposed to not knowing how long it
is going to last. Not knowing how long the
tribulation is going to last could contribute to
one's losing one's patience and faith during that
time.

Weasel7711 posted in message #33:

... not even the Son knows.

It was true at the time that Jesus spoke Mark 13:32
that He, the Son, didn't know the future date of His
return. This could have been because before His
death for us He wanted to become like us in every
way (Hebrews 2:17), even in our limited knowledge.

But nothing requires that sometime after His
resurrection, Jesus didn't come to know the future
date of His return. For, after His resurrection, just
as all power in heaven and earth (Matthew 28:18) was
returned to Him (now as a man), that same power that
He had before He became a man (Philippians 2:6-8),
so, after His resurrection, all knowledge in heaven
and earth could have been returned to Him (now as a
man), that same knowledge that He had before He
became a man (Philippians 2:6-8).

Just as Jesus nowhere said that "the Son will never
know the future date of His return until it actually
arrives", but simply said that "the Son doesn't
know", as in not at the time He said that, so Jesus
nowhere said that "no man will ever know the future
date of my return until it actually arrives", but
simply said that "no man knows", as in not at the
time He said that.

So the statement "of that day and that hour knoweth
no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven,
neither the Son" (Mark 13:32) leaves open the
possibility that both the Son and some other men
would come into that knowledge at some time in the
future, before the date of Jesus' return arrived.

Weasel7711 posted in message #33:

We have a job to do, why not do it, then trust God
for Him to come back when the time comes.

Our job is to preach the Word (2 Timothy 4:2),
including all the prophecies which could point to the
future date of Jesus' return, indeed the prophecies
for which the very raison d'etre could be to help
prepare the endtime Church to endure the coming
tribulation, not only by knowing when it will end,
but also by knowing when it could start, so that the
Church won't be caught off-guard when it starts, but
will have been prepared to see it start at that time.

Weasel7711 posted in message #33:

Nothing we can do can change it anyway so there is
no point in scrambling to figure it out. IMO it
wastes time.

Of course none of our ideas about what some
scriptures could be teaching regarding the dates of
future events could ever change the actual dates
which those scriptures teach. But this doesn't mean
that there is no point in trying, through the exchange
of ideas and seeing which ones are the most supported
by scripture and which don't contradict any scripture,
to reap the benefits of what scripture is actually
teaching regarding what must come, and when.

It's not a waste of time if we are always returning
to what the scriptures themselves say, for all the
scriptures are tied to one another. A discussion of
even the most arcane point in a prophetic scripture
will usually end up leading into a discussion of all
sorts of other matters in scripture, so that one
cannot help but eventually learn a wide breadth of
scripture, even if one begins with a focused look at
a single prophetic verse.

For this reason, eschatological discussions often end
up involving soteriology, ecclesiology, Israelology,
and all manner of other theology, just as, for example,
soteriological discussions often end up involving
eschatology, ecclesiology, Israelology, and all
manner of other theology. Any one subset of theology,
if it is rigorously pursued, will end up serving as
merely a gateway into a general knowledge of all of
theology, all of scripture.

And it is never a waste of time to read and discuss
scripture, for all scripture is profitable
(2 Timothy 3:16), and no scripture will return void,
but will, if we are careful to "take heed" to it
(Mark 13:23), accomplish in us the purpose for which
God gave it to us (Isaiah 55:11), which is ultimately
our blessing (Revelation 1:3).

 

[Weasel7711]

We shouldn't look at the JW's, but to those such as
Daniel who believed the prophecies which had come
before him and successfully interpreted them
literally to arrive at an understanding of them which
helped him to set a course of action (Daniel 9:2-19).

That's what I am saying. The JWs have set tons of dates, and all of them have been wrong. I have come across many many people who have set dates, they have all been wrong. Let's say we figure out the day Jesus is coming back, what will that change? Will people all of a sudden get up off their but and start doing God's work? They should have been doing that before they know.

 

[Elife3]

Wasn't 1988 the 40th year Israel beccame a nation again? I heard that a biblical generation is 40 years (or 70 or 80 years). That likely has something to do with it. It's not a true date, though for tribulation.

 

[Bible2]

Weasel7711 posted in message #36:

Originally Posted by Bible2:

We shouldn't look at the JW's, but to those such as
Daniel who believed the prophecies which had come
before him and successfully interpreted them literally
to arrive at an understanding of them which helped
him to set a course of action (Daniel 9:2-19).

That's what I am saying. The JWs have set tons of
dates, and all of them have been wrong.

That doesn't matter, because the JWs read the Bible
and come up with all sorts of false doctrines. Are
we then to stop reading the Bible and trying to
determine its true doctrines? Of course not. So
neither should we stop trying to determine what the
Bible shows as the true date of Christ's return. For
the true date is in there:

"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he
revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets"
(Amos 3:7).

"I have foretold you all things" (Mark 13:23).

Weasel7711 posted in message #36:

I have come across many many people who have set
dates, they have all been wrong.

That's like a girl saying "I have come across many
guys who said they loved me, but they have all turned
out to be liars". Is she then to give up on ever
finding true love? That would be a pretty depressing
response. Just as giving up on the Bible's ability to
tell us the date of Christ's return just because some
people have misinterpreted it in the past would be a
pretty depressing response.

 

[Bible2]

Weasel7711 posted in message #36:

Let's say we figure out the day Jesus is coming back,
what will that change?

First of all, we won't know we're right about the day
until Jesus actually comes back on that day, but
knowing what the day could be will change our response
to the time period before that day comes.

For example, let's say a man is sitting in the
dentist's office waiting to be seen by the dentist.
He gets impatient and stands up and asks the girl
behind the desk, "How long do you think it will be
until he can see me?" She looks up and says "You
know, I'm really not sure". The man could sit down
totally unsatisfied with that answer and begin to get
really, really, impatient. After twenty or thirty more
minutes of waiting he could get so upset that that he
could just storm out of the office and go look for
another dentist.

Now imagine a different scenario. A man is sitting in
the dentist's office waiting to be seen by the
dentist. He gets impatient and stands up and asks the
girl behind the desk, "How long do you think it will
be until he can see me?" She looks up and says "He
will be able to see you in 23 minutes". The man could
sit down totally satisfied with that answer and begin
to calmly read a five-year-old magazine he picked up
off a table in front of him. And then, after exactly
23 minutes have passed he is called in to see the
dentist.

So the second man's knowing exactly how long it would
be helped him to calm down and wait patiently. This
would be the same for Christians in the tribulation
who will be waiting for Jesus' return. Not knowing how
long it will be before He returns could cause them to
grow despondent and impatient in their suffering so
that they even lose their faith. But if they knew
exactly how many more days they would have to wait,
they could calm down and wait patiently until those
days are up.

Jesus could return on the 1,335th day after the
abomination of desolation:

"... from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be
taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate
set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and
ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh
to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty
days" (Daniel 12:11-12).

This could be the same blessing as the following:

"Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that
watcheth" (Revelation 16:15).

And note when the blessing of Revelation 16:15
will be given: right during the vials of wrath
(Revelation 16), the final stage of the tribulation.

So Jesus could tell those in the tribulation the
exact day of His return and encourage them with a
blessing to hold on until that day comes.

Now imagine a third scenario: A man is sitting in
the dentist's office waiting to be seen by the
dentist. He gets impatient and stands up and asks the
girl behind the desk, "How long do you think it will
be until he can see me?" She looks up and says "He
will be able to see you in 23 minutes". The man could
sit down totally satisfied with that answer and begin
to calmly read a five-year-old magazine he picked up
off a table in front of him. And then, after exactly
23 minutes have passed, he isn't called in to see
the dentist. In fact, five more minutes pass and still
he isn't called in. Finally, he is about to lose his
cool and walk out of the office when suddenly he is
called in. Great relief passes over him and he goes in
cheerfully, glad that the wait is finally over.

The point of this scenario is that even though the
time-estimate by the girl behind the desk was wrong,
it still helped the man to get through the time
without walking out on the dentist. If she had made
no estimate at all, as in the first scenario, the
man very well could have gotten so impatient that
he left before he was called in.

It could be the same way with our estimate of Jesus
coming back on the 1,335th day after the abomination
of desolation. Even if it turns out to be wrong, and
we are still waiting for Jesus for some days after
the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation,
the 1,335-day estimate still helped us to get through
those 1,335 days, whereas if we had had no estimate at
all to hold onto we could have very well lost our
patience and faith before the 1,335th day.

And now a final scenario: A man is sitting in
the dentist's office waiting to be seen by the
dentist. He gets impatient and stands up and asks the
girl behind the desk, "How long do you think it will
be until he can see me?" She looks up and says "He
will be able to see you in 23 minutes". The man could
sit down totally satisfied with that answer and begin
to calmly read a five-year-old magazine he picked up
off a table in front of him. And then, after only
20 minutes have passed, he is called in to see the
dentist. He's surprised that he didn't have to wait
the 23 minutes, but he sure isn't complaining. In
fact, the over-estimate made the 20 minutes seem
short to the man, whereas if he'd not been given any
estimate at all, those same 20 minutes could have
seemed like a lifetime.

It could be the same way with our estimate of Jesus
coming back on the 1,335th day after the abomination
of desolation. Even if it turns out to be wrong, and
we won't have to wait that many days, who's going to
complain about that? In fact, the over-estimate will
make the actual number of days we waited seem short
to us, whereas if we'd not had any estimate at all
to hold onto, those same number of days could have
seemed like a lifetime.

So the bottom line is that knowing exactly how long
we are going to have to wait for something changes
our attitude toward the time during which we are
waiting, even if it turns out that we didn't truly
know exactly how long we would actually have to wait.
No matter whether what we thought was more than or
less than the actual time, what we thought helped
us to get through the length of time that we thought
we would have to wait.

Of course, we could set ourselves up for trouble if
we make an estimate that is way too short, so that
when that short time passes and nothing happens, our
patience could be all used up before we will really
need it. So it would be much better to over-estimate
the time we will have to wait, and be surprised when
Jesus comes "early", than under-estimate the time
and lose our faith before Jesus' "late" coming.

The 1,335-day estimate seems to be a safely long
estimate in that the Antichrist will only rule for
42 months (Revelation 13:5b), or 1,260 days (cf.
Revelation 12:6, 11:2). The 75 days between the
1,260th day and the 1,335th day could be taken up
with the vials of wrath (Revelation 16). The
blessing of Daniel 12:11-12/Revelation 16:15 could
be given on the 1,290th day (Daniel 12:11), which
would mean that the first six vials will last 30
days, for Revelation 16:15 is spoken after the
sixth vial. The 45 days between the 1,290th day
and the 1,335th day could be taken up with the
gathering together of all the armies of the world
to Armageddon (Revelation 16:16).

 

[Bible2]

Weasel7711 posted in message #36:

Let's say we figure out the day Jesus is coming
back, what will that change? Will people all of a
sudden get up off their but and start doing God's
work? They should have been doing that before they
know.

If people don't get off their butt by reading verses
like Titus 1:16, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, 25:26,30,
then the Word has no effect on them, and if the Word
has no effect on them then the Word's telling them the
day Jesus is going to return won't have any effect on
them either.

But to those who are already doing the works of God,
knowing the day when Jesus is going to return could
help them greatly to endure the tribulation with
patience and faith:

"Here is the patience and the faith of the saints"
(Revelation 13:10).

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they
that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of
Jesus" (Revelation 14:12).