110 Confederate monuments removed in US since 2015

[SummerMadness]

It's still in a building, behind walls. In a public space with no fees, walls, or doors, anyone can see it. It's still part of history.

Right, and that's where some Confederate monuments are going, their rightful place, in a museum, not in a public square glorifying people that did not want "property" to be seen as people.

 

[SummerMadness]

That actually looks pretty dope. He wears it better than the white kids from rural Iowa (a Union state).

And white kids in Union states wearing a Confederate flag cap pretty much sums up why it's not a symbol of "heritage."

My favorite was seeing a white Jewish kid from the Northeast flying this flag despite having no southern roots (obviously). Heritage not hate, right?

 

[ripple the car]

And white kids in Union states wearing a Confederate flag cap pretty much sums up why it's not a symbol of "heritage."

And I get that. In the North, at least, it makes zero sense. It does make sense for a Southern White person to take some degree of pride in his history, and want to display a Confederate flag. Is his pride justified? Debatable. But stripping him of his right to use or fly that flag still feels like over-kill.

 

[SummerMadness]

And I get that. In the North, at least, it makes zero sense. It does make sense for a Southern White person to take some degree of pride in his history, and want to display a Confederate flag. Is his pride justified? Debatable. But stripping him of his right to use or fly that flag still feels like over-kill.

Who had any of their rights stripped? Last I checked, Southerners are free to fly a racist symbol like the Confederate flag if they want. Why do you believe that black people should be forced to live under symbols of oppression? I'm guessing some lives don't matter.

 

[TheBear]

Exactly. The fact that these racist symbols stayed up for so long says a lot about racism in America. It's a good thing this country is improving and taking those symbols of hate down.

Indeed. When the constant drum beat of how Americans are so racist, and how it's getting worse, it's quite refreshing to see the reality of things punch a massive hole in that narrative. Not only have Americans elected a black president twice, (not to mention every other elected office), we now have, by popular demand, (by mostly white people), racist symbols being taken down. Happy days, my friend. Happy days indeed!

 

[SummerMadness]

Indeed. When the constant drum beat of how Americans are so racist, and how it's getting worse, it's quite refreshing to see the reality of things punch a massive hole in that narrative. Not only have Americans elected a black president twice, (not to mention every other elected office), we now have, by popular demand, (by mostly white people), racist symbols being taken down. Happy days, my friend. Happy days indeed!

Ah, it's good to see the John Birch Society argument claiming because it is better now than in the past, that means racism does not exist. Things are better, racism is still a problem, they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Could move to a different country. Perhaps a European one where you won't find a history of wars or atrocities. Oh wait, doesn't exist. Maybe Mexico or Africa where it's rainbows and butterflies.

So my point is, how do you compare good decent people getting rid of statues of evil men. With ISIS.

 

[FireDragon76]

ISIS destroyed a lot of history, too.

We don't advocate destroying statues necessarily, just relocating them out of public spaces.

 

[Kalevalatar]

Vae victis!

 

[Shiloh Raven]

We don't advocate destroying statues necessarily, just relocating them out of public spaces.

Before I even begin, please know that I am not directing my response at you personally.

Personally speaking, I think it's a very inconsistent argument to insist on removing Confederate statues or removing Confederate flags from public view while not insisting to do the same with American related statues or the American flag. The Confederate States of America only had legalized slavery for 4 years, but the United States of America had legalized slavery for 89 years until slavery was abolished by the ratified 13th Amendment on December 6, 1865. The United States government then consistently denied the descendants of the freed slaves civil rights and equality, and legally segregated them from white people, for the next 99 years until the Civil Rights Movement in 1964.

Black people were not the only minorities being oppressed, subjugated and discriminated against here in the United States during at that time in history. Native Americans were still being denied U.S. citizenship when the 13th Amendment was ratified. In fact, Native Americans were denied U.S. citizenship for 148 years in this country until the American Indian Citizenship Act in 1924. Native Americans were also denied the Freedom of Religion for 202 years until the American Indian Religious Freedom Act in 1978. American Indians have only had religious freedom in this country for 40 years and America will be 242 years old come this Fourth of July. The freedom of religion is supposed to be guaranteed to all American citizens by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution.

The United States of America, unlike the Confederate States of America, was allegedly founded upon freedom, liberty and justice for all. The United States of America has written in its own Declaration of Independence that all men are created equal and they are endowed by the Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The Confederate States of America did not have such a declaration. I have mentioned these specific examples to make the point that if some Americans want to protest the Confederacy, such as removing Confederate statues or the Confederate flag, because of the racism against Black people, then it would be most prudent of them to include the United States of America in their righteous indignation. The United States of America is even more guilty of racism against Black people and other minorities than the Confederate States of America. The Confederate States of America did not claim to be founded upon freedom, liberty and justice for all. The Confederate States of America never claimed to be the land of the free and home of the brave. The Confederate States did not spend 188 years legally subjugating, segregating and discriminating against minorities. The United States, on the other hand, did just that.

 

[AirPo]

ISIS destroyed a lot of history, too.

The Confederacy is history, and destroyed.

 

[Shiloh Raven]

So my point is, how do you compare good decent people getting rid of statues of evil men. With ISIS.

The one historical monument I would like to see destroyed is Mount Rushmore. I would like to see the faces of those four presidents obiviated off of that mountain and the mountain's originally Lakota Sioux name of the Six Grandfathers rightfully restored. I think that would be a good place to start and then I would go for Andrew Jackson's grave and any other monument glorifying him after that. There is a picture of the four president faces being blasted off of the mountain in this article: Native People Discuss What To Do About Mt. Rushmore. The explantion of the picture is in the description below it.

 

[variant]

Could move to a different country. Perhaps a European one where you won't find a history of wars or atrocities. Oh wait, doesn't exist. Maybe Mexico or Africa where it's rainbows and butterflies.

In most countries they rarely idolize treasonous losers of civil wars fought primarily for white supremacist goals.

It's weird that people who want to continue to reverence the history of the confederacy seem to have no grasp of it.

When the south lost the war, and white supremacists lost direct control of government they established the KKK to replace it in a more informal manner, and then resisted in many manners the equality of blacks for over a century, establishing statues of their "heritage" now "history" in the statues of confederate monuments.

 

[Desk trauma]

My favorite was seeing a white Jewish kid from the Northeast flying this flag despite having no southern roots (obviously). Heritage not hate, right?

He was clearly celebrating Judah Benjamin’s prominent role in the confederate government as a...ah, who am I kidding the odds of them knowing who that is are only slightly more then zero.