SummerMadness

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Alabama, Mississippi Mark Confederate Memorial Day
State offices were closed Monday in Alabama and Mississippi for Confederate Memorial Day, which a watchdog group used to call for the removal of additional monuments to the Confederacy.

The Montgomery-based Southern Poverty Law Center, in a statement, said Confederate symbols erected by Southern heritage groups were used by white supremacists “as tools of racial terror" and said 170 were removed across the nation last year.
In another example of not being able to let it go, we still have Southern states that can't let it go that the Civil War is over and lost. We already have a holiday to honor the fallen during the Civil War, it's called Memorial Day.

The desire to fly and honor these symbols of racial terror show people that still live in the past and show how callous they are to their fellow Southerners. Many of their fellow Southerners fleed during the Great Migration, yet they still want to push the imagery that caused people to leave so they could simply live without fear for their lives.
 

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Study your history, the civil war was not about slavery, it was about the south wanting to break from the union. Are you aware that Lincolns rational regarding the blacks was to return them to their homes in Africa.
Slavery needed to be abolished, no question about it. I'm a Californian, grew up in the bay area. Racial issues were never a big deal. When I was in the military in Memphis they still had the separate drinking fountains and I just couldn't understand why, wasn't raised that way. So I do have a soft spot in my heart for those who experienced some of the insanity of the South mainly in the 60 and 70 (my era), and totally agree that the civil rights movement needed to happen, and glad it did.
Today is a different story, we have people antagonizing the cops, sometimes for no reason. They are human, and some over react, and that is wrong.
You need to look at the whole picture honestly, and that isn't happening. I've seen too much discrimination from blacks towards whites, that is just as wrong. We need stop the affirmative action non sense and get a level playing field.
 
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Study your history, the civil war was not about slavery, it was about the south wanting to break from the union. Are you aware that Lincolns rational regarding the blacks was to return them to their homes in Africa.
Slavery needed to be abolished, no question about it. I'm a Californian, grew up in the bay area. Racial issues were never a big deal. When I was in the military in Memphis they still had the separate drinking fountains and I just couldn't understand why, wasn't raised that way. So I do have a soft spot in my heart for those who experienced some of the insanity of the South mainly in the 60 and 70 (my era), and totally agree that the civil rights movement needed to happen, and glad it did.
Today is a different story, we have people antagonizing the cops, sometimes for no reason. They are human, and some over react, and that is wrong.
You need to look at the whole picture honestly, and that isn't happening. I've seen too much discrimination from blacks towards whites, that is just as wrong. We need stop the affirmative action non sense and get a level playing field.
The south seceded in order to maintain the institution of slavery. Indeed without slavery there would have been no secession, it was the primary driver. It was states rights, but the rights in question was that of owning your fellow humab being.

It is true that the civil war for Lincoln was about Union, not slavery initially.
 
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RBPerry

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The south seceded in order to maintain the institution of slavery. Indeed without slavery there would have been no secession, it was the primary driver. It was states rights, but the rights in question was that of owning your fellow humab being.

It is true that the civil war for Lincoln was about Union, not slavery initially.

Reality is I believe if it was just about slavery, I think Lincoln would have left it alone. He had a lot of pressing issues going on, the Western movement and that Indian problems for one.

I'm just curious, why would an atheist want to participate on a Christian forum?
 
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Reality is I believe if it was just about slavery, I think Lincoln would have left it alone. He had a lot of pressing issues going on, the Western movement and that Indian problems for one.

I'm just curious, why would an atheist want to participate on a Christian forum?
Because this forum is well run and moderated, and remember this section of the forum is open to all even atheists!:eek:.

It gives a good idea of what's going on in the states.
 
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Alabama, Mississippi Mark Confederate Memorial Day

In another example of not being able to let it go, we still have Southern states that can't let it go that the Civil War is over and lost. We already have a holiday to honor the fallen during the Civil War, it's called Memorial Day.

The desire to fly and honor these symbols of racial terror show people that still live in the past and show how callous they are to their fellow Southerners. Many of their fellow Southerners fleed during the Great Migration, yet they still want to push the imagery that caused people to leave so they could simply live without fear for their lives.

Have you ever noticed that African Americans are told they should "get over it" on the subject of segregation or slavery? These are the same people that support the flying of the Confederate flag as "heritage."

Whoah, hang on a second. Not everone who doesn't jump in with both feet on this BLM movement is waving a confederate flag. I honestly don't consider myself as racist, but some of these "movements" go too far imo, including BLM. Seems to have an undertone of capatalizing on a "white guilt" movement. I agree with RB Perry that when you talk about black people who experienced the '60s and '70s, you have to show some respect for what they went through. But we had some "movements" back then that made some significant changes towards progress. Fast forward to 2021 and I'm not so sure we can and should go further with instituting policy with the sole purpose of advancing black people. If America is so overrun with prejudice, how is it that Barrack Obama became president ( who I thought was a great president,btw)? How is it that we have a black woman as VP? Maybe because they rolled up their sleeves, got to work and earned it? How is it that Mike Tomlin is still the coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers in a league that supposedly discriminates black coaches? Maybe because he's a good, successful coach? There have been several black coaches hired around the league but some have been fired. Why? Could it be because they weren't successful? And how come most players in the NBA are black? Shouldn't we be instituting policy to hire more white players? Could the discrepancy have anything at all to do with talent level? Now we have "systemic racism". A smoky theory used to enhance the white guilt experience. There may be some merit to the theory, but not enough imo to regard it as anything more than one of lifes obstacles in this day and age. Yes, get over it. I sat in school next to black kids who had the same teacher I did. Played on the same football team with the same coaches. We won championships together and considered ourselves equal as teammates. I didn't see anybody forced to pick cotton or any black/white water fountains. Didn't get the job because the rich white CEO hired his nephew? Neither did I. I don't have have an uncle whose a CEO either. Bottom line is this: life presents obstacles. Being black is one of them. I don't deny this. So is being poor, not blessed with superior intelligence, being handicapped, too fat, too short. Buck up and get past it like Obama, Tomlin and so many other black americans have done. I mean what's the goal of BLM? To end racism completely? Not gonna happen. There's always gonna be some idiot in Tennessee who'd just as soon shoot the black man than look at him, regardless of any laws instituted against this. Just like there's always gonna be serial killers and rapists despite the fact that we have laws to deter this. We jsut have to lock up the criminals as they present. A cop just got sentenced to jail and a day later we have a white cop who killed a black girl. So did that sentence imposed actually send a message that would deter cops from shooting a suspect? Apparently not. And in this instance, it might've changed the landscape had the cop froze because of this movement and allowed the victim to continue stabbing someone to death. How about black lives not create a chaotic scene of five people running around trying to stab each other? Nothing gets said about that- might detract from the movement. And nothing ever gets mentioned when a cop shoots a white person. Not the hot topic/flavor of the month so not newsworthy.
I admit that I'm not entirely up to speed with all of this. I could have some racism in me that I'm not aware of, but it would have to be pointed out. Some would call me racist for the things I've said above, but I don't think so. And I will admit that if an opportunity gets presented to me that is not detrimental to anyone, I'm not gonna stop and ask myself would a black man (or anyone else forthat matter) get this same opportunity. I'm going to take advantage of the opportunity. And I'd suggest that any black man would do the same if the roles were reversed.
I'll also admit that I got an eye opener when I recently watched ESPNs 30/30 documentary on Micheal Vick. Watching that I started thinking, "well, yeah, there's a legitimate example of systemic racism". Sheesh, threw the man in jail and ruined his life and career. I remember thinking it was BS back then and still do. I'm not saying what he did wasn't wrong, and I would also believe he knew it was wrong. But I also believe he probably thought if he got caught, the punishment would fit the crime. Which would be something like a 10K fine and social work with PETA. Not a ridiculous jail sentence. You could see from the documentary that racism was involved, but then, Vick was facing a double-whammy. He also had the "dog people" against him, who can be equally as rabid because they're under the illusion that dogs are people, or at the very least should be treated as such.
I'm not saying we shouldn't acknowledge and deter racism, and I'm not completely against BLM. I just think with today's media competing for and needing stories to sell advertising, that any "movement" that currently has legs is going to get overexaggerated and blown out of proportion prompting hordes of lemmings who are more interested in being a part of something than the cause to jump on board. I think it's obvious as we look back that the we're moving in the right direction, especially as inter-racial marraiges become more prominent. It just takes time. Some day, probably not in our lifetime or even the next, skin color won't be an issue. Of course that won't end prejudice. Humans always need a reason to choose up sides so we'll probably have a prejiduce against people with a certain eye-color, or hair color, or from what part of the country you're from etc...
 
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RBPerry

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Because this forum is well run and moderated, and remember this section of the forum is open to all even atheists!:eek:.

It gives a good idea of what's going on in the states.

Good reason, I think the entire forum should be open to anyone, I never made it to atheism, but was agnostic for a while, even after spending my entire education including college in Christian schools and university.

As for what is going on in the states, anything you read on the internet must be true.
 
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Have you ever noticed that African Americans are told they should "get over it" on the subject of segregation or slavery? These are the same people that support the flying of the Confederate flag as "heritage."

Whoah, hang on a second. Not everone who doesn't jump in with both feet on this BLM movement is waving a confederate flag. I honestly don't consider myself as racist, but some of these "movements" go too far imo, including BLM. Seems to have an undertone of capatalizing on a "white guilt" movement. I agree with RB Perry that when you talk about black people who experienced the '60s and '70s, you have to show some respect for what they went through. But we had some "movements" back then that made some significant changes towards progress. Fast forward to 2021 and I'm not so sure we can and should go further with instituting policy with the sole purpose of advancing black people. If America is so overrun with prejudice, how is it that Barrack Obama became president ( who I thought was a great president,btw)? How is it that we have a black woman as VP? Maybe because they rolled up their sleeves, got to work and earned it? How is it that Mike Tomlin is still the coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers in a league that supposedly discriminates black coaches? Maybe because he's a good, successful coach? There have been several black coaches hired around the league but some have been fired. Why? Could it be because they weren't successful? And how come most players in the NBA are black? Shouldn't we be instituting policy to hire more white players? Could the discrepancy have anything at all to do with talent level? Now we have "systemic racism". A smoky theory used to enhance the white guilt experience. There may be some merit to the theory, but not enough imo to regard it as anything more than one of lifes obstacles in this day and age. Yes, get over it. I sat in school next to black kids who had the same teacher I did. Played on the same football team with the same coaches. We won championships together and considered ourselves equal as teammates. I didn't see anybody forced to pick cotton or any black/white water fountains. Didn't get the job because the rich white CEO hired his nephew? Neither did I. I don't have have an uncle whose a CEO either. Bottom line is this: life presents obstacles. Being black is one of them. I don't deny this. So is being poor, not blessed with superior intelligence, being handicapped, too fat, too short. Buck up and get past it like Obama, Tomlin and so many other black americans have done. I mean what's the goal of BLM? To end racism completely? Not gonna happen. There's always gonna be some idiot in Tennessee who'd just as soon shoot the black man than look at him, regardless of any laws instituted against this. Just like there's always gonna be serial killers and rapists despite the fact that we have laws to deter this. We jsut have to lock up the criminals as they present. A cop just got sentenced to jail and a day later we have a white cop who killed a black girl. So did that sentence imposed actually send a message that would deter cops from shooting a suspect? Apparently not. And in this instance, it might've changed the landscape had the cop froze because of this movement and allowed the victim to continue stabbing someone to death. How about black lives not create a chaotic scene of five people running around trying to stab each other? Nothing gets said about that- might detract from the movement. And nothing ever gets mentioned when a cop shoots a white person. Not the hot topic/flavor of the month so not newsworthy.
I admit that I'm not entirely up to speed with all of this. I could have some racism in me that I'm not aware of, but it would have to be pointed out. Some would call me racist for the things I've said above, but I don't think so. And I will admit that if an opportunity gets presented to me that is not detrimental to anyone, I'm not gonna stop and ask myself would a black man (or anyone else forthat matter) get this same opportunity. I'm going to take advantage of the opportunity. And I'd suggest that any black man would do the same if the roles were reversed.
I'll also admit that I got an eye opener when I recently watched ESPNs 30/30 documentary on Micheal Vick. Watching that I started thinking, "well, yeah, there's a legitimate example of systemic racism". Sheesh, threw the man in jail and ruined his life and career. I remember thinking it was BS back then and still do. I'm not saying what he did wasn't wrong, and I would also believe he knew it was wrong. But I also believe he probably thought if he got caught, the punishment would fit the crime. Which would be something like a 10K fine and social work with PETA. Not a ridiculous jail sentence. You could see from the documentary that racism was involved, but then, Vick was facing a double-whammy. He also had the "dog people" against him, who can be equally as rabid because they're under the illusion that dogs are people, or at the very least should be treated as such.
I'm not saying we shouldn't acknowledge and deter racism, and I'm not completely against BLM. I just think with today's media competing for and needing stories to sell advertising, that any "movement" that currently has legs is going to get overexaggerated and blown out of proportion prompting hordes of lemmings who are more interested in being a part of something than the cause to jump on board. I think it's obvious as we look back that the we're moving in the right direction, especially as inter-racial marraiges become more prominent. It just takes time. Some day, probably not in our lifetime or even the next, skin color won't be an issue. Of course that won't end prejudice. Humans always need a reason to choose up sides so we'll probably have a prejiduce against people with a certain eye-color, or hair color, or from what part of the country you're from etc...
A. Line breaks are your friend
B. “They’ve had enough progress” (ain’t your call).
C. These movements exist because they do not think “B” is true
 
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SummerMadness

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Have you ever noticed that African Americans are told they should "get over it" on the subject of segregation or slavery? These are the same people that support the flying of the Confederate flag as "heritage."

Whoah, hang on a second. Not everone who doesn't jump in with both feet on this BLM movement is waving a confederate flag. I honestly don't consider myself as racist, but some of these "movements" go too far imo, including BLM. Seems to have an undertone of capatalizing on a "white guilt" movement. I agree with RB Perry that when you talk about black people who experienced the '60s and '70s, you have to show some respect for what they went through. But we had some "movements" back then that made some significant changes towards progress. Fast forward to 2021 and I'm not so sure we can and should go further with instituting policy with the sole purpose of advancing black people. If America is so overrun with prejudice, how is it that Barrack Obama became president ( who I thought was a great president,btw)? How is it that we have a black woman as VP? Maybe because they rolled up their sleeves, got to work and earned it? How is it that Mike Tomlin is still the coach for the Pittsburgh Steelers in a league that supposedly discriminates black coaches? Maybe because he's a good, successful coach? There have been several black coaches hired around the league but some have been fired. Why? Could it be because they weren't successful? And how come most players in the NBA are black? Shouldn't we be instituting policy to hire more white players? Could the discrepancy have anything at all to do with talent level? Now we have "systemic racism". A smoky theory used to enhance the white guilt experience. There may be some merit to the theory, but not enough imo to regard it as anything more than one of lifes obstacles in this day and age. Yes, get over it. I sat in school next to black kids who had the same teacher I did. Played on the same football team with the same coaches. We won championships together and considered ourselves equal as teammates. I didn't see anybody forced to pick cotton or any black/white water fountains. Didn't get the job because the rich white CEO hired his nephew? Neither did I. I don't have have an uncle whose a CEO either. Bottom line is this: life presents obstacles. Being black is one of them. I don't deny this. So is being poor, not blessed with superior intelligence, being handicapped, too fat, too short. Buck up and get past it like Obama, Tomlin and so many other black americans have done. I mean what's the goal of BLM? To end racism completely? Not gonna happen. There's always gonna be some idiot in Tennessee who'd just as soon shoot the black man than look at him, regardless of any laws instituted against this. Just like there's always gonna be serial killers and rapists despite the fact that we have laws to deter this. We jsut have to lock up the criminals as they present. A cop just got sentenced to jail and a day later we have a white cop who killed a black girl. So did that sentence imposed actually send a message that would deter cops from shooting a suspect? Apparently not. And in this instance, it might've changed the landscape had the cop froze because of this movement and allowed the victim to continue stabbing someone to death. How about black lives not create a chaotic scene of five people running around trying to stab each other? Nothing gets said about that- might detract from the movement. And nothing ever gets mentioned when a cop shoots a white person. Not the hot topic/flavor of the month so not newsworthy.
I admit that I'm not entirely up to speed with all of this. I could have some racism in me that I'm not aware of, but it would have to be pointed out. Some would call me racist for the things I've said above, but I don't think so. And I will admit that if an opportunity gets presented to me that is not detrimental to anyone, I'm not gonna stop and ask myself would a black man (or anyone else forthat matter) get this same opportunity. I'm going to take advantage of the opportunity. And I'd suggest that any black man would do the same if the roles were reversed.
I'll also admit that I got an eye opener when I recently watched ESPNs 30/30 documentary on Micheal Vick. Watching that I started thinking, "well, yeah, there's a legitimate example of systemic racism". Sheesh, threw the man in jail and ruined his life and career. I remember thinking it was BS back then and still do. I'm not saying what he did wasn't wrong, and I would also believe he knew it was wrong. But I also believe he probably thought if he got caught, the punishment would fit the crime. Which would be something like a 10K fine and social work with PETA. Not a ridiculous jail sentence. You could see from the documentary that racism was involved, but then, Vick was facing a double-whammy. He also had the "dog people" against him, who can be equally as rabid because they're under the illusion that dogs are people, or at the very least should be treated as such.
I'm not saying we shouldn't acknowledge and deter racism, and I'm not completely against BLM. I just think with today's media competing for and needing stories to sell advertising, that any "movement" that currently has legs is going to get overexaggerated and blown out of proportion prompting hordes of lemmings who are more interested in being a part of something than the cause to jump on board. I think it's obvious as we look back that the we're moving in the right direction, especially as inter-racial marraiges become more prominent. It just takes time. Some day, probably not in our lifetime or even the next, skin color won't be an issue. Of course that won't end prejudice. Humans always need a reason to choose up sides so we'll probably have a prejiduce against people with a certain eye-color, or hair color, or from what part of the country you're from etc...
What does BLM have to do with this topic? :scratch:
 
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Study your history, the civil war was not about slavery, it was about the south wanting to break from the union.
And which Homeschool Publishing House printed your “history” books?
 
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I'm just curious, why would an atheist want to participate on a Christian forum?
Not the person you asked but I come here because the threads are chock full of of things that simply do not get brought up on my normal collection of websites I frequent.
 
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I'm just curious, why would an atheist want to participate on a Christian forum?
Christians by-and-large are “good people” and those of us who do not subscribe to their particular faith-system, (or any faith-system), generally wish to give them a fair shake.

Yes, there are some of Jesus’ followers here who I would cringe to have to spend Eternity with, but I find that I can suffer them for a season.
 
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And which Homeschool Publishing House printed your “history” books?
Funny, 60s educational system before we had to make everything politically correct and began rewriting history. No question slavery was an issue, but I don't believe it was the straw.
 
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Christians by-and-large are “good people” and those of us who do not subscribe to their particular faith-system, (or any faith-system), would like to give them a fair shake.

Yes, there are some of Jesus’ followers here who I would cringe to have to spend Eternity with, but I find that I can suffer them for a season.

I personally think people in general are good people. I'm not an apologist so I don't try to persuade people to my way of thinking, I guess because I have been on both sides. I do have a tendency to stir the pot with some of my fellow Christians though.
 
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I get tired of people making this argument because if they read any of the founding documents of the Confederacy it's hard to argue that slavery wasn't wasn't major driving force. Many of the word changes in their constitution explicitly enshrine a lower status for African Americans. It's just crazy that people keep repeating the "not about slavery" lie.

But forget about the failed state known as the Confederacy, using the Confederacy as a symbol of terror was the rule of the day in the century after the US Civil War. Raising the battle flag above state houses in response to desegregation was no mistake.
 
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Study your history, the civil war was not about slavery, it was about the south wanting to break from the union.

...uh, yeah, about that....

Why exactly was the south wanting to break from the union? Asking for a friend...

Hint: The Vice President of the Confederacy (Alexander Stephens) addressed it in his infamous "Cornerstone" speech.


What he said in his speech (if you're up for some light reading):
The new constitution has put at rest, forever, all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institution African slavery as it exists amongst us the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time. The constitution, it is true, secured every essential guarantee to the institution while it should last, and hence no argument can be justly urged against the constitutional guarantees thus secured, because of the common sentiment of the day. Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew."

Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.

Or, to paraphrase, he's saying
- "Slavery is the reason for the late rupture and present revolution" (referring to secession efforts by the south)

- "The ideas in the constitution were fundamentally wrong, because they rested on the assumption of equality of the races"

- "Their new government was to be "based on the moral truth of white superiority"".

Notice he didn't use the words "part of" or "partially influenced by"... he said "based on", and then said his new government was to be "founded on" the idea, and that the belief in white superiority was the "great truth" on which the confederacy's "cornerstone rests upon"

If you read the confederate constitution, the majority of it is largely a word-for-word copy of the US Constitution, with the only differences being ones that specifically centered around protecting slavery.

If there were some other reasons besides slavery that were the catalyst behind the the south wanting to break from the union, I would expect those other differences to be reflected somewhere in their founding documents.


If one says they don't want to be part of their current country anymore and wishes start their own, and they create a central document that's basically a carbon copy of the one from the country they're claiming to want to leave, with the only critical differences being clauses pertaining to slavery...to say slavery isn't the main reason for their intended departure is a dubious assertion at best.
 
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