101 Preterist Time-Indicators

[n2thelight]

The book is symbolic, and don't forget there are two marks spoken of in Revelation.

The Mark of the Beast

and The Mark of God (Revelation 7:2-3)

Deuteronomy 6​

Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:

That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.

Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.







But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. John 19:15

If the prophecies aren’t literally fulfilled, it’s impossible to know when anything is fulfilled. If the prophecies aren’t literally fulfilled, there is no need to watch for anything. If the prophecies aren’t literally fulfilled, there are no signs of anything. If prophecies aren’t literally fulfilled, we need to forget about heaven, rewards, the resurrection of the dead, etc. because those things won’t literally happen.

Christians should not want to lead anyone wrong. But those who say all prophecy has been fulfilled, the Book of Revelation is nothing but a book of symbols, no one understands it, and the like are leading people wrong. The Bible says study those symbols, search the Scriptures, let Scripture interpret Scripture, blessed is the person who reads, hears and keeps the things in the Book of Revelation, don’t take anything out of the Book of Revelation, the Holy Spirit can help you understand it, etc.

 

[Jipsah]

Wow, what arrogance, especially for one that calls himself a Christian!

Pot, kettle, black. Doctor, heal yourself.

 

[Rev20]

Nero wasn’t the Antichrist because he committed suicide instead of being cast alive into the Lake of Fire (Revelation 19:20). Nero didn’t track all buying and selling. And Nero didn’t force people to take the Mark of the Beast.

Are you really that ignorant?

 

[n2thelight]

Are you really that ignorant?

Yep

 

[Jipsah]

Are you really that ignorant?

Nobody is taught history anymore, Rev.

 

[Rev20]

If the prophecies aren’t literally fulfilled, it’s impossible to know when anything is fulfilled. If the prophecies aren’t literally fulfilled, there is no need to watch for anything. If the prophecies aren’t literally fulfilled, there are no signs of anything. If prophecies aren’t literally fulfilled, we need to forget about heaven, rewards, the resurrection of the dead, etc. because those things won’t literally happen.

When have prophecies been literally fulfilled? For example, what about this one:

"Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones." -- Zec 13:7​

"And Jesus saith unto them, All ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered." -- Mark 14:27​

Was that literally fulfilled? How about these:

"The stone which the builders refused is become the head stone of the corner." -- Ps 118:22​

"And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:" -- Mark 12:10​

"Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste." -- Isa 28:16​

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit." -- Eph 2:19-22​

Was that literally fulfilled? And this:

"And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be." -- Zec 14:8​

"He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)" -- John 7:38-39​

"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" -- Acts 2:17​

Maybe Christ does not want us to make the same mistake the first-century Jews made by pretending we can interpret prophecies.

All Christ really asks of us is that we be good people.

 

[Interplanner]

I would be a bit more assertive than that, Rev20. He wants us to preach what Rom 3 and Acts 13 say: that the Gospel event is a preview of the judgement of God, in which all the questions are raised and answered.

 

[Rev20]

I would be a bit more assertive than that, Rev20. He wants us to preach what Rom 3 and Acts 13 say: that the Gospel event is a preview of the judgement of God, in which all the questions are raised and answered.

I have seen nothing that states we must understand prophecy; but there are boatloads of scripture that instruct us to be good people:

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." -- Matt 7:12​

"Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." -- Matt 22:36-40​

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." -- John 14:15​

"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him." -- John 14:21​

"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you." -- John 15:12​

"These things I command you, that ye love one another." -- John 15:17​

"For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." -- Rom 13:9​

"Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." -- Rom 13:10​

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing." -- 1Cor 13:1-3 NKJV​

"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." -- Gal 5:14​

"Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." -- Jas 1:27​

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors." -- Jas 2:8-9​

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." -- 1Joh 3:23​

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God." -- 1Joh 4:7​

"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood," -- Rev 1:5​

I would assume that "being a good person" would include spreading the gospel.

 

[Gideon]

I agree with much in the opening post. Yes, many prophecies have been fulfilled. But not all.

Can our Part Pret friends read this and answer the following question? ...

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring. (Luke 21:24-25)

Question: Are there any records from the AD70 period indicating major celestial and tidal disturbances as clearly described here? (Please notice, it is not written in a figurative style)

 

[ebedmelech]

I agree with much in the opening post. Yes, many prophecies have been fulfilled. But not all.

Can our Part Pret friends read this and answer the following question? ...



Question: Are there any records from the AD70 period indicating major celestial and tidal disturbances as clearly described here? (Please notice, it is not written in a figurative style)

When you understand the apocalyotic language, it's easy. Think about how Job described his trial and suffering. That's what's going on there.

Or think about the Psalms and how the poetic language uses that type of language in poetry.

 

[random person]

I agree with much in the opening post. Yes, many prophecies have been fulfilled. But not all.

Can our Part Pret friends read this and answer the following question? ...



Question: Are there any records from the AD70 period indicating major celestial and tidal disturbances as clearly described here? (Please notice, it is not written in a figurative style)

The Bible provides its own intext commentary on apocalyptic phraseology, please read Joel 2:1-11 & Rev. 6:12-17.

 

[Gideon]

Hey, Ebedmelech and Random. Apocalyptic language is obvious in apocalyptic scripture. Problem is the Olivet discourse is spoken in matter-of-fact style. I see Jesus answering his disciple's questions in a straight forward manner. Mens hearts will be full of fear at what they see.

One of those things will be major tidal disturbances. It hasn't happened yet.

 

[random person]

Hey, Ebedmelech and Random. Apocalyptic language is obvious in apocalyptic scripture. Problem is the Olivet discourse is spoken in matter-of-fact style. I see Jesus answering his disciple's questions in a straight forward manner. Mens hearts will be full of fear at what they see.

One of those things will be major tidal disturbances. It hasn't happened yet.

If that is so, what of these matter-of-fact style passages?

When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes. - Matthew 10:23

"Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom." - Matthew 16:28

Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation. - Matthew 23:36

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. - Matthew 24:34 (see Dan. 12:2,7)

 

[Gideon]

If that is so, what of these ...

I dont intend to debate every Preterist verse favorite. I simply want to make the point that the overall body of prophetic scripture does not support the Preterist line, that every fulfillment was completed by AD70.

I accept that much has been fulfilled, but not all. Even part-Prets overdo this assertion. They would do well to balance up with a little bit of Historicism - that is - to realise that some prophecy pertains to ages inbetween AD70 and Christ's parousia.

 

[Rev20]

I dont intend to debate every Preterist verse favorite. I simply want to make the point that the overall body of prophetic scripture does not support the Preterist line, that every fulfillment was completed by AD70.

I accept that much has been fulfilled, but not all. Even part-Prets overdo this assertion. They would do well to balance up with a little bit of Historicism - that is - to realise that some prophecy pertains to ages inbetween AD70 and Christ's parousia.

I believe a person does well to read the scripture for what it is, and leave his/her imagination completely out. That way, you can avoid the consequence of being a false prophet.

 

[Gideon]

I believe a person does well to read the scripture for what it is, and leave his/her imagination completely out.

OK Rev, can you read this and answer the following question? ...

And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring. (Luke 21:24-25)

Question: Are there any records from the AD70 period indicating major tidal disturbances as clearly described here?

As we can all see, it is not figurative or apocalyptic writing. I am doing just as you say - reading the scripture for what it is. Did anyone notice any unusual "waves and seas" during the AD 70 era?

 

[Interplanner]

The point is that the known world was in a state of upheaval, in which Israel could have been decimated either from within (zealots) or outside (Idumeans and Nabateans wanted to seize the land and crack the control Rome had on Med. Sea). There was to be no more Israel as they knew it, but Christ's disciples would still carry on with His mission.

 

[Gideon]

The point is that the known world was in a state of upheaval, in which Israel could have been decimated either from within (zealots) or outside (Idumeans and Nabateans wanted to seize the land and crack the control Rome had on Med. Sea). There was to be no more Israel as they knew it, but Christ's disciples would still carry on with His mission.

Im sorry Interplanner. The Roman world was stable in AD 70. The ambitions of minor nations like Idumea and Nabatea can hardly be made to fit the description, "upon the earth distress of nations."

Luke 21:25 has not been fulfilled yet. All prophecy was not fulfilled by AD70 as Preterism maintains.

 

[ebedmelech]

Im sorry Interplanner. The Roman world was stable in AD 70. The ambitions of minor nations like Idumea and Nabatea can hardly be made to fit the description, "upon the earth distress of nations."

Luke 21:25 has not been fulfilled yet. All prophecy was not fulfilled by AD70 as Preterism maintains.

No Gidieon. You're sorely mistaken. This was a critical time for Rome, and it is documented historical fact because the empire almost dissolved. It took Vespasian to pull everything back together.

I can only encourage you to read up on it.

 

[Gideon]

No Gidieon. You're sorely mistaken. This was a critical time for Rome, and it is documented historical fact because the empire almost dissolved. It took Vespasian to pull everything back together.

I can only encourage you to read up on it.

I know my history well enough to know that there were quite a few crises in the Roman Empire and political problems in Vespasians reign was not the worst of them. Instead of trying to exaggerate the AD70 era, as full Preterists do, Part Prets should simply acknowledge that All prophecy was not fulfilled by AD70.

By taking a more balanced position, you will be more effective in rebutting the extremes of Futurism.