1 Timothy 4:1-3

[speakingthetruth777]

It is not they decide individually that eating meat is wrong it is that they teach it as doctrine. Paul pretty much says that if a person decides eating meat is wrong then it is wrong for them, but not for others. They push their beliefs with great vehemence and that is the problem. The Bible is clear that meat is acceptable and that we are not under the Mosaic restrictions on eating meat, and yet they push a vegetarian diet and try to get all of their members to that level of diet. This is where it goes against scripture.

Amen my Brother! I have been reading over several of your posts in various threads. Good Job.

God Bless

www.arkwebshost.com/biblestudies/joevberry3/​

 

[Symes]

flesh99

Looking in particular at this part of the verse.

"They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods"

This is the centre of the passage. Go ahead and quote the whole passage. That is fine by me. I have no intention of getting into a Greek debate with you or anyone else about Scripture. If I cannot read the Bible in plain simple English then there is a problem. Your problem here is that you do not like being pushed into a corner. It is very obvious to anyone who this text is talking about. You just will not admit to who it is. I even gave you more support in Daniel 11:37.

 

[Symes]

Amen my Brother! I have been reading over several of your posts in various threads. Good Job.

God Bless

Where have I said or any other SDA's that you must not eat meat? Unclean meat yes you must not eat it, but not clean meat you can if you so desire. If you decide to then that is fine but not to my memory have I said you must not eat clean meat.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

flesh99



This is the centre of the passage. Go ahead and quote the whole passage. That is fine by me. I have no intention of getting into a Greek debate with you or anyone else about Scripture. If I cannot read the Bible in plain simple English then there is a problem. Your problem here is that you do not like being pushed into a corner. It is very obvious to anyone who this text is talking about. You just will not admit to who it is. I even gave you more support in Daniel 11:37.

Symes the Greek is key here as the conjunction you are relying on to try and make your point does not exist in the text. If you are not willing to look at the original language to clarify then you do not want to properly study the scripture in question. But even in English the verses do not imply that both forbidding to marry and abstaining from foods are required for it to be the apostasy described. It is obvious where you are headed with this and I for one am not going to let it go there because you are wrong about it. In my first post looking at the piece of a verse you can see that I have successfully argued the point I am making and in doing so completely refuted the point you are pushing towards.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Where have I said or any other SDA's that you must not eat meat? Unclean meat yes you must not eat it, but not clean meat you can if you so desire. If you decide to then that is fine but not to my memory have I said you must not eat clean meat.

You haven't ever managed to show that we are under the food laws to begin with, and furthermore you are saying we should "abstain from certain foods". You are doing exactly what the verses you posted describe.

 

[Symes]

flesh99

You haven't ever managed to show that we are under the food laws to begin with, and furthermore you are saying we should "abstain from certain foods". You are doing exactly what the verses you posted describe.

The Bible says not to eat unclean foods. The verses we are looking at here says that a power or whatever you may like to call it will forbid people to marry and abstain from certain foods. I am not doing that at all. The foods that God says not to eat are unclean foods. God does not place on the prohibited list foods that are clean.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

The Bible says not to eat unclean foods. The verses we are looking at here says that a power or whatever you may like to call it will forbid people to marry and abstain from certain foods. I am not doing that at all. The foods that God says not to eat are unclean foods. God does not place on the prohibited list foods that are clean.

Symes the Bible also says that Noah was given every living creature for food. The only food restrictions ever given were to the Jews and for the Jews only. Peter was corrected in his thinking, Christ said it, Paul said it as well.

And to top it off what the scripture says is that some will teach abstaining for marriage [and/or] abstaining from foods. But then it goes on to tell us what foods and says the EVERYTHING God created is good and NOTHING is to be refused with thanksgiving. I have shown you the original Greek on this and proven that the two doctrines given are listed as seperate things and do not have to be together to qualify. You see you are trying to further a completely false point by taking this scripture out of context. First off you have to have the preceding scripture that shows the two things do not have to be combined, then you have to have the second part to show what foods it is talking about. It is talking about things like the SDA doctrine as it very clearly states the EVERYTHING God created is good and NOTHING is to be refused... then it goes on to tell us why this is the case as well, it is our prayers that sanctify our food. So your insistence on concentrating on that little piece of the passage can only be to twist it and prove what I know you are trying to prove but won't say because it is against the forum rules.

To show us that it is not refering to every meat you will need to prove that in that:

1. Everything does not really mean everything
2. Nothing does not really men nothing

Then and only then can you prove your doctrine to be correct, once you prove that you can go on and try and twist this passage in the manner that you are trying to.

 

[Symes]

The only food restrictions ever given were to the Jews and for the Jews only. Peter was corrected in his thinking, Christ said it, Paul said it as well.

flesh99

Interesting that you make that claim. If you follow Christ you belong to the seed of Abraham. Then keep the food laws as all of his seed were told to keep them. You have no exuse now.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Symes the Law was meant to prophecy to Christ, and as a mentor to lead us to Christ. Now that Christ has come we are no longer under a mentor. The covenant made with Moses and his people has been fulfilled, it is no longer a binding covenant, and as such has been replaced with a new covenant. You keep trying to put us all under the law of sin and death and it is just not going to happen.

 

[duster1az]

flesh99

Interesting that you make that claim. If you follow Christ you belong to the seed of Abraham. Then keep the food laws as all of his seed were told to keep them. You have no exuse now.

"For this reason it is by faith, that it might be in accordance with grace, in order that the promise may be certain to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all" (Rom. 4:16).

Aside from Ishmael's line and the children of Keturah, the children of Jacob are counted as the physical seed (Gen. 22:2; Heb. 11:17) of Abraham and God's covenants were made with them respecting earthly privilege. The heavenly or spiritual seed are not progenerated by Abraham, but are generated by God on principle of faith; and because Abraham exercised faith (Gen. 15:6; Rom. 4:1-3, 17-24), those of like faith are called his spiritual seed. To expect the Church to be governed by the law of Israel is in error in light of Scriptural truth.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[deu58]

hello symes

"They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods"

The only person demanding that people abstain from certain foods is you! As far as I know, I could be wrong, The SDA is the ONLY church that demands we abstain from certain foods {Levitical} and strongly encourages that people become full vegetarian.

If there is a any modern church that fits the description of what Paul is talking about it is your own SDA church, which makes me wonder why would you start a thread against your own doctrine?

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[Symes]

The only person demanding that people abstain from certain foods is you! As far as I know, I could be wrong, The SDA is the ONLY church that demands we abstain from certain foods {Levitical} and strongly encourages that people become full vegetarian.

If there is a any modern church that fits the description of what Paul is talking about it is your own SDA church, which makes me wonder why would you start a thread against your own doctrine?

yours in Christ
deu58

Wrong again, the SDA Church does not fit the description that this passage makes. It does not forbid people or its leaders to marry but we do encourage them to become vegetarians. It is not a requirement for Church membership.


It is true that many members become vegetarians but also many are not.

Where as there is a group of "Christians" in the world today that do forbid their ministers to marry and on certain days they are to abstain from certain foods.

Helping to understand this more one can look at Daniel 11:37

"Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all."

When one looks at both texts we get a clear indication of what this is about. Remember it says "he shall magnify himself above all"

 

[deu58]

hello symes

Where have I said or any other SDA's that you must not eat meat? Unclean meat yes you must not eat it, but not clean meat you can if you so desire. If you decide to then that is fine but not to my memory have I said you must not eat clean meat.


Are you a vegetarian and where did you learn to be a vegetarian?

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[deu58]

hello Symes

When one looks at both texts we get a clear indication of what this is about. Remember it says "he shall magnify himself above all"

Again, This fits the posistion of the SDA church, SDA's say they are the only true commandment keeping remanent church and that you are actually prophesied as such in revelation.

Re 12:17 And the dragon was angry with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus.

The SDA's are right and every body else is wrong, you claim to have received special revelation from God as to how the church is to conduct it self through a prophetic source, You have not only exalted your self above the body of christ but have claimed you{SDA's} ARE the body of christ!

Sorry symes this verse is not dealing with fasts and it has SDA stamped all over it.

And you do insist people follow the levitical unclean food laws,

yours in Christ
deu58

 

[Symes]

Where have I said or any other SDA's that you must not eat meat? Unclean meat yes you must not eat it, but not clean meat you can if you so desire. If you decide to then that is fine but not to my memory have I said you must not eat clean meat.


Are you a vegetarian and where did you learn to be a vegetarian?

yours in Christ
deu58

Your previous post certainly indicated the thought.

I became a vegetarian when I was about 17 years of age after eating meat every day of my life. At times I do eat some fish now. It has been shown that full vegans need B12 supplements and I do not recommend that people go that far. But if they do then they may need to have B12 added to their diet.

 

[deu58]

hello Symes

What makes you think that all of these things must be found within one denomination?
The he you are referring to will be the leader of a one world religious system, not just a single denomination, This verse could actually be referring to an orginization of many denominations all in agreement with each others teachings

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[feo]

Jesus Loves me Even Though i Eat Lamb And Hamburgers ! Thank God For His Unconditional Love And Grace :-D

 

[deu58]

Hello Feo
Ahh yes but do the sheep and the cows love you?! yours in christ
deu58

 

[feo]

Hello Feo
Ahh yes but do the sheep and the cows love you?! yours in christ
deu58

Hey deu58 Your Post Made me Laugh; thanks haha. Jesus Said That People Would Hate me on Account of Him... maybe This Can be Extended to Animals as well? jk. have a Great day.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Your previous post certainly indicated the thought.

I became a vegetarian when I was about 17 years of age after eating meat every day of my life. At times I do eat some fish now. It has been shown that full vegans need B12 supplements and I do not recommend that people go that far. But if they do then they may need to have B12 added to their diet.

But Symes your church teaches their pastors should not eat meat, and according to your church EGWs teachings are 100% correct and she said that eating meat was sin. She contradicted herself in other places of course, but in light of that how do you decide what of her teachings is true? If her teachings are correct then your church does believe that their pastors should not eat meat. And to top it off the verse in question does not say abstaining from meat, it says abstaining from certain meats. There are very few churches that teach abstaining just from certain meats and the SDA is one of those. It is obvious where you wanted to take this but it ins't happening now. Your church fits the bill at least as much as the church you wanted to attack.