1 John 3:15 actually means what it says.

[Bible Highlighter]

If you're thinking this refers to an emotional state, then you need to have brain surgery to remove those amygdalas. If you think that hate is an action, or a way of life, then it's another matter. There's a great deal more to this than mere animosity.

Hating one’s brother can be a one time act. The beginning of James 2 makes this point. Also, the murder of Abel is a one time act of hatred. Granted, there was hate that led up to that point. But technically speaking, a one time act of murder would also be the equivalent of a one time act of hatred.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I think that's a stretch and actually makes his example meaningless.

How so?

 

[SeventyOne]

How so?

You're adding aspects to the relationship between Cain and Able that don't knowingly exist in order to make your point. I don't even know if someone truly born again can actually hate anyone. I know that we're told we hate all the time, but you have to consider both the clueless nature of the unsaved about such things, as well as all those who pose as believers, declaring their own hate in the name of the Lord, when considering such an absurd claim.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You're adding aspects to the relationship between Cain and Able that don't knowingly exist in order to make your point. I don't even know if someone truly born again can actually hate anyone. I know that we're told we hate all the time, but you have to consider both the clueless nature of the unsaved about such things, as well as all those who pose as believers, declaring their own hate in the name of the Lord, when considering such an absurd claim.

Then what in the world is John talking about? Why would he say that if you hate your brother, you are like a murderer and no eternal life abides in you? John is taking to believers and he is warning them about those who are attempting to deceive them. Why would he tell them this if it does not apply to them? It doesn’t make any sense. This is why I find your interpretation as not doing justice to what the text plainly says.

If John was talking to unbelievers, he would have said,

"Now, there are those who have not accepted Christ and if they hate one another (like their own brother), they are condemned. But for you my brethren, this does not apply. If you hate your brother, you are still saved and not condemned."​

But nowhere does John say anything like this.
On the contrary, John is saying to the brethren (talking to the brethren) that if they hate their brother, no eternal life abides in them.

I know you simply do not like that message or truth in the Bible, so naturally you have to find another way to explain this verse.

But you cannot argue against the plain truth of Scripture, my friend.

 

[Mark_Sam]

But you have no other meaning. You are not offering an explanation. You are only going off of what you believe is true based on your own personal experience and not by faith (i.e. that which is unseen). So I am sorry, it means what it says. If a believer hates their brother, they have no eternal life abiding in them. It actually means that.

Then I'll go straight to Hell, I guess. For I have hated, but begged for forgiveness, both from God and from my brethren. But I guess that doesn't help. There is no mercy for sinners. No second chances. One little feeling of hatred - and you're out forever. That is the true Gospel. Good day.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Then I'll go straight to Hell, I guess. For I have hated, but begged for forgiveness, both from God and from my brethren. But I guess that doesn't help. There is no mercy for sinners. No second chances. One little feeling of hatred - and you're out forever. That is the true Gospel. Good day.

One can have forgiveness if they confess their sins to the Lord Jesus Christ. For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). Granted, while God extends us grace by our calling out to Him for forgiveness, this is not a mere paying of lip service (with no change in one's life) but a genuine confession of feeling sorry for our sin whereby we will forsake our sin (With God's power). For even unbelievers can stop sinning with special programs. So lets not act like mankind cannot stop sinning. Alcoholics have overcome the sin of alcoholism with entering a special drug program. The sin of gluttony can be overcome by men, as well. Imagine what Jesus can do for a believer. He can do so much more.

1 John 3:8 says that Jesus was manifested to destroy the works of the devil. This would be the works of the devil in a believer's life. Paul says sin shall not have dominion over you. This means sin shall not control a believer's life.

 

[Mark_Sam]

One can have forgiveness if they confess their sins to the Lord Jesus Christ. For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9).

But that's my point. Your literal understanding of 1 John 3:15, as I understand, is (i) someone who has even once felt hatred towards his brother (whomever that might be) is a murderer, (ii) a murderer remains a murderer forever, and (iii) murderers have no eternal life. If a murderer confess his sins and ask for forgiveness, he is, per this logic, still a murderer, and therefore cannot have eternal life no matter what (1 John 3:15). But this understanding contradicts the very same letter it is written in (cf. 1 John 1:9), so this understanding of 1 John 3:15 cannot be correct.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But that's my point. Your literal understanding of 1 John 3:15, as I understand, is (i) someone who has even once felt hatred towards his brother (whomever that might be) is a murderer, (ii) a murderer remains a murderer forever, and (iii) murderers have no eternal life. If a murderer confess his sins and ask for forgiveness, he is, per this logic, still a murderer, and therefore cannot have eternal life no matter what (1 John 3:15). But this understanding contradicts the very same letter it is written in (cf. 1 John 1:9), so this understanding of 1 John 3:15 cannot be correct.

Please show me where you are still a murderer forever if you confess and forsake your sins according to God’s Word.

Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. Was not David forgiven of his sin of murder when he confessed his sins to God in Psalms 51?

 

[LoveofTruth]

The 'context' he gives is the relationship between Cain and Able. Are you saying John is implying some spiritual brotherhood in that relationship?

Also, he's providing assurance of salvation to believers by showing a trait of unbelievers which we don't have.

If the point being made here is that salvation is lost if we hate, then the example must be that you are inferring Cain was saved before hating and murdering his brother.

No the verse says "whosoever", this "whosoever is spoken to the believers or it can extend to "whosoever". The point is that John speaks of hating your brother in previous chapters also He says in 1 John 2:

"9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes."(1 John 2:9-11 KJV)

Here we see that some believers can say they are in the light and yet if they hate their brother ( other believers) they are in darkness and lie. He also uses the word "abideth" to remain, continue and dwell in Greek. This abiding is to continue in the faith, Jesus said if we abide in him he(Jesus eternal life) will abide in us John 15. But if we abide not we can be cast forth as a branch and withered. So if a believer lets hatred in his heart then he is a murderer in his heart. This is not speaking only of Cains outward murder of Abel in the flesh. But shows where sin begins in the heart. And then eternal life (Jesus Christ) does not continue to remain or dwell in them ( to abide).

John said he wrote what he did in that latter so that believers would "sin not".

John also wrote

"6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:7 But if we walk in the light,"(1 John 1:6,7 KJV)

Notice he speaks of himself included in that verses. "If we say". And again the word "if" is conditional.

 

[LoveofTruth]

But that's my point. Your literal understanding of 1 John 3:15, as I understand, is (i) someone who has even once felt hatred towards his brother (whomever that might be) is a murderer, (ii) a murderer remains a murderer forever, and (iii) murderers have no eternal life. If a murderer confess his sins and ask for forgiveness, he is, per this logic, still a murderer, and therefore cannot have eternal life no matter what (1 John 3:15). But this understanding contradicts the very same letter it is written in (cf. 1 John 1:9), so this understanding of 1 John 3:15 cannot be correct.

to once feel hatred towards a person may not be the sin. To be tempted with sin is not sin in itself. But if we lust in our heart we have already sinned if we hate in our heart we have already murdered. This hatred is inward in the heart and given into it. Just as a man who lust after a women in his heart has already committed adultery with her.

But this sin can be forgiven, even the most horrible and shall be white as snow. Paul had Stephen stoned and he was forgiven. Peter said to the thousands on Pentecost that they with wicked hands killed Christ and they repented and three thousand were saved that day.

You are in error in your understanding here. Jason is correct.

John warns believers in 1 John to sin not and not to walk in darkness and say they are in the light.

 

[Mark_Sam]

Please show me where you are still a murderer forever if you confess and forsake your sins according to God’s Word.

Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy. Was not David forgiven of his sin of murder when he confessed his sins to God in Psalms 51?

Then this is much ado about nothing. What damns a man forever is not a irrevocable one time act of feeling hatred per se, but his unrepentance of all sins committed. You wrote:

For me it destroys any idea of OSAS or a Non-OSAS sin and still be saved type belief.

What you outline, sounds a lot like the latter scenario, "non-OSAS sin and still be saved": someone hates his brother (he sins, and maybe even loses salvation), but repents and is forgiven, and therefore still saved. That's where the confusion is. If OSAS is false (and I agree), and "non-OSAS sin and still be saved" is false, what is the third option?

You are in error in your understanding here. Jason is correct.

I'm just trying to understand OP's position. I do believe that murderers can be forgiven, and have eternal life (if they repent, or course). OP seemed to imply that anyone who has ever hated anyone at least one time is a murderer incapable of ever being saved, as per a literal interpretation of 1 John 3:15. But maybe I misunderstood - and I certainly hope it did misunderstand it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Then this is much ado about nothing. What damns a man forever is not a irrevocable one time act of feeling hatred per se, but his unrepentance of all sins committed. You wrote:

What you outline, sounds a lot like the latter scenario, "non-OSAS sin and still be saved": someone hates his brother (he sins, and maybe even loses salvation), but repents and is forgiven, and therefore still saved. That's where the confusion is. If OSAS is false (and I agree), and "non-OSAS sin and still be saved" is false, what is the third option?


I'm just trying to understand OP's position. I do believe that murderers can be forgiven, and have eternal life (if they repent, or course). OP seemed to imply that anyone who has ever hated anyone at least one time is a murderer incapable of ever being saved, as per a literal interpretation of 1 John 3:15. But maybe I misunderstood - and I certainly hope it did misunderstand it.

As I said before, you can repent (confess of your sin) and be forgiven. A person can be condemned by one sin, but if they seek forgiveness with God, they can then be forgiven. If a person dies before repentance, they are condemned. Only God can determine a person's heart and what they will potentially do in the future by their sin whereby God can condemn a person for their one time sin. Granted, believers can be forgiven of lots of sin. But this does not mean that believers are generally characterized as living like unbelievers. Believers are to walk upright and holy. It is possible for a believer to stop sinning. When I say that a person has no eternal life abiding in them when they hate their brother, that means that in that present moment in time, they are not saved. This does not mean they are forever hopelessly lost (although God could take their life before they have a chance to repent). Hence, why we have to live in fear of the Lord. If we could just sin and still be saved, then there really would not be any kind of fear of God. Chastisement is not a justification to fear God because unbelievers go through the same kinds of challenges in this life as unbelievers. The goal of chastisement is to correct the believer so they no longer sin anymore. For example: A master might chastise his dog for pooping on the carpet by lightly smacking him and yelling. The goal is to correct the animal from pooping on the carpet again. But.... if the master knew that the dog had an uncontrollable pooping problem, and the master still yelled at the dog and smacked him lightly, it would not be nice. For the dog has no capacity to obey his master in that instance.

1 John 3:15 is talking in the present tense and not for all eternity.
One is spiritually dead in the present tense or moment they have hatred for their brother, BUT.... they can be forgiven of that hatred of their brother in most cases by confessing and forsaking such a sin.