‘White Nationalists’ ????

[childeye 2]

when i say we aren't in a bubble. I meant the nation.

white nationalism is simply code for white supremacy. a term they use because the old one has negative connotations.

I agree, that is the common understanding. But we shouldn't accept that intended ambiguity as a valid premise by repeating it, as if it were true. I don't believe there can even be a such thing as a 'white' nationalist if we stay true to the terms.

For example, I notice that 'white' is not a 'race' and neither is 'black'. They only exist as a demographic in today's politics. It's therefore an illusion or a delusion to contend that blacks/whites' interests are somehow contrary to one another as a people. There's no difference between the pride that says proud to be white, or proud to be black, since they are both responses that came through an impetus of negative prejudice in the first place.

 

[childeye 2]

Well, since words do not, cannot, and have never meant anything beyond what the almighty dictionary decrees, that's the end of that.

Well, of course it's not the end of that. I think everyone should understand that being a liberal or a conservative doesn't really mean 'for ethnic diversity' or 'for whites only', yet there are plenty of fault-filled articulations that are suggesting exactly that. Why should deceived people get to decide the terms?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Well, of course it's not the end of that. I think everyone should understand that being a liberal or a conservative doesn't really mean 'for ethnic diversity' or 'for whites only', yet there are plenty of fault-filled articulations that are suggesting exactly that. Why should deceived people get to decide the terms?

Who's going to stop them? You?

 

[childeye 2]

Who's going to stop them? You?

As a Christian I try to where I think I can. But ultimately, I see the problem in the prophetic way of a reckoning.

For me, there is a spiritual aspect of reality, and there are spiritual powers of cynicism, and distrust as a deception of the mind, which misguides one's love through the fear of betrayal. It's like watching a lie go around the world and through the people's belief in it, it manifests into reality.

So, I don't ever think I can stop it. The battle for me is to be conformed to the Christ and not to this world.

 

[Aldebaran]

when i say we aren't in a bubble. I meant the nation.

white nationalism is simply code for white supremacy. a term they use because the old one has negative connotations.

Ah, there it is! The same old "Code" talk and the "white supremacy" claim. I knew it would come out eventually. But you should have been upfront with it from the start. We all saw it anyway, so why not be honest about what you mean?

 

[Albion]

white nationalism is simply code for white supremacy. a term they use because the old one has negative connotations.

But we're still hearing "white supremacy" from the people at the same end of the political spectrum.

I'd say that it's heard even more often than "white nationalist."

Plus, as I think of your answer about the terms, I have the feeling that "white nationalist" is not used for the reason you said--that it has fewer negative connotations than "white supremacist" does. Rather, it's more likely that "white nationalist" is used because it doesn't clearly connote anything in particular but still sounds bad.

Anyone who accuses somebody else of being either one of these things INTENDS to defame and insult him, not the opposite.

 

[TLK Valentine]

As a Christian I try to where I think I can. But ultimately, I see the problem in the prophetic way of a reckoning.

For me, there is a spiritual aspect of reality, and there are spiritual powers of cynicism, and distrust as a deception of the mind, which misguides one's love through the fear of betrayal. It's like watching a lie go around the world and through the people's belief in it, it manifests into reality.

So, I don't ever think I can stop it. The battle for me is to be conformed to the Christ and not to this world.

So...what makes them "deceived" and you... not so much, aside from opinion?

 

[Vylo]

Um, there are plenty of Americans that are proud of America that happen to be white can you actually give me an example of one of these type of people that refers to themselves as a white nationalist?

The Patriot Front comes immediately to mind.

 

[perplexed]

I have the feeling that "white nationalist" is not used for the reason you said--that it has fewer negative connotations than "white supremacist" does. Rather, it's more likely that "white nationalist" is used because it doesn't clearly connote anything in particular but still sounds bad.

I am living up to my name and I am quite perplexed

I think valid criticism of the phrase" Jim Crow 2.0" is that it gives a very particular negative connotation without going into details. I really don't get why the people on this board that make ALWAYS the reasonable complaint that it is pretty pathetic that Trump supporters get called racist at the drop of a hat think people are using code, code is not the problem lack of details is a problem.

 

[TLK Valentine]

But we're still hearing "white supremacy" from the people at the same end of the political spectrum.

I'd say that it's heard even more often than "white nationalist."

Not all bigots have a mind for politics.

Plus, as I think of your answer about the terms, I have the feeling that "white nationalist" is not used for the reason you said--that it has fewer negative connotations than "white supremacist" does. Rather, it's more likely that "white nationalist" is used because it doesn't clearly connote anything in particular but still sounds bad.

Anyone who accuses somebody else of being either one of these things INTENDS to defame and insult him, not the opposite.

That's your opinion.

 

[childeye 2]

So...what makes them "deceived" and you... not so much, aside from opinion?

Believing disinformation/misinformation is what deceives people. Any moral reasoning based on falsehood ends in a contradiction, and subsequently hypocrisy.

 

[Aldebaran]

Believing disinformation/misinformation is what deceives people. Any moral reasoning based on falsehood ends in a contradiction, and subsequently hypocrisy.

How should we refer to people who label truth as "disinformation", and label those who speak the truth as some sort of a threat?

 

[childeye 2]

How should we refer to people who label truth as "disinformation", and label those who speak the truth as some sort of a threat?

You're describing people who are "deceived" or "misinformed".

 

[Aldebaran]

You're describing people who are "deceived" or "misinformed".

Yes, when they truly are. But who determines what is true and what is false? Some say it's "science", some say it's the Supreme Court.

 

[childeye 2]

Yes, when they truly are. But who determines what is true and what is false? Some say it's "science", some say it's the Supreme Court.

As a Christian, and therefore focused on the moral/immoral paradigm, it's fundamentally about having the sight to see what all lies exist to subvert. In scripture God is described as brotherly Love/compassion. Every lie, therefore, would undermine God/brotherly Love/Compassion, when believed as true. To love others as yourself, you have to see others as yourself.

 

[childeye 2]

Ah, there it is! The same old "Code" talk and the "white supremacy" claim. I knew it would come out eventually. But you should have been upfront with it from the start. We all saw it anyway, so why not be honest about what you mean?

Respectfully, the poster was being honest. The person was trying to understand me and wanted to be understood by me. I sensed no guile.

 

[Aldebaran]

Respectfully, the poster was being honest. The person was trying to understand me and wanted to be understood by me. I sensed no guile.

No, not toward you personally:

"white nationalism is simply code for white supremacy. a term they use because the old one has negative connotations."

The implication there being that those who consider themselves white nationalists (or maybe people who are guilty of being white while also being nationalistic) are also white supremacists.
You may have noticed that these guys who like to take terminology and turn it into an accusation of racism. It's standard procedure, and has worn so thin as to become transparent.

 

[childeye 2]

No, not toward you personally:

"white nationalism is simply code for white supremacy. a term they use because the old one has negative connotations."

The implication there being that those who consider themselves white nationalists (or maybe people who are guilty of being white while also being nationalistic) are also white supremacists.
You may have noticed that these guys who like to take terminology and turn it into an accusation of racism. It's standard procedure, and has worn so thin as to become transparent.

I don't believe anybody here likes to take terminology and turn it into an accusation of racism. The poster is remarking that there do exist self-described nationalist movements that are white and racist. That cannot be denied. My issue is that I don't believe any form of negative prejudice against diversity ever qualifies as nationalism here in America. It's like a false nationalism.

 

[Aldebaran]

I don't believe anybody here likes to take terminology and turn it into an accusation of racism. The poster is remarking that there do exist self-described nationalist movements that are white and racist. That cannot be denied. My issue is that I don't believe any form of negative prejudice against diversity ever qualifies as nationalism here in America. It's like a false nationalism.

But do you also believe that there are people who happen to be white, and are Americans, who identify as nationalists, and yet their views have nothing to do with race?

 

[TLK Valentine]

My issue is that I don't believe any form of negative prejudice against diversity ever qualifies as nationalism here in America. It's like a false nationalism.

Well of course it's a "false" nationalism -- but the sort of people who espouse it don't suffer correction very well.

The people who fall into such "false nationalisms" seldom seek more than something to hate and blame. Challenge them, and you will quickly find yourself added to their list.