‘White Nationalists’ ????

[grasping the after wind]

Getting to an open polling station and furnishing IDs doesn't encompass all methods of voter suppression. If you wanted perspective you can choose to listen to voters who have been exposed to the suppression for decades. And you can do some research yourself. If white folks were being suppressed at the level blacks have been you would understand. I doubt you are forced to register to vote every election. I also doubt you are forced into standing in line for twelve hours to cast your ballot either. These are things their communities deal with every single election. You will have perspective when they get around to suppressing YOUR RIGHTS. Sadly, it will be too late then to actually defend our democracy!

Citing evidence that blacks are less capable of furnishing ID or getting to a polling place than others would be enough to answer my question. As you are asserting that they are among the methods of voter suppression that white folks are somehow not affected by. Additionally, perhaps you could tell me what laws have been passed recently in States that will suppress black votes and not votes by other groups? And how exactly would those laws be a danger to the democratic voting process? All I have from anyone so far is one assertion upon another assertion with no evidence put forward to support those assertions. I am not saying that such evidence doesn't exist but how should I be convinced that the assertions are valid if those making the assertions cannot produce that evidence.

 

[KCfromNC]

Well, what's been demonstrated here is that the term (white nationalist) is just another propaganda word chosen for its shock value although it has no relevance to anything real.

That, plus the court cases won against GOP legislators showing clear racial bias in their attempts at voter suppression. For example N.C. Judges Strike Down A Voter ID Law They Say Discriminates Against Black Voters

 

[KCfromNC]

Could you give us some evidence that there is any legislation that will suppress black votes that will not suppress the votes of anyone that is not black?

I can. Or, more accurately, I can point us to the facts used by the plaintiffs' winning case against a GOP attempt in my state :

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...blicans-tried-to-disenfranchise-black-voters/

In particular, the court found that North Carolina lawmakers requested data on racial differences in voting behaviors in the state. "This data showed that African Americans disproportionately lacked the most common kind of photo ID, those issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV)," the judges wrote.

So the legislators made it so that the only acceptable forms of voter identification were the ones disproportionately used by white people. "With race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans," the judges wrote. "The bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess."​

 

[Fantine]

In Texas, in order to prevent certain people from voting, they might only have one "designated polling place" located in the county seat of a large county, far away from the low-income community where few have the cars, or the gas money to drive to the county seat.

In Harris County, TX (Houston area) they have eliminated large numbers of polling places so that people will have to travel further (and wait longer) to get to the "designated polling places."

And of course it's hard to vote at the polling places when they reject your voter registration application because you might have used a middle initial on your driver's license. They didn't give you a chance to correct the application by notifying you it was denied and why? Oops! The state denied 40% of voter registration apps. Obviously their application was not 'user-friendly.' It might have been designed to be obtuse so they could reject as many as possible.

 

[Hazelelponi]

In Texas, in order to prevent certain people from voting, they might only have one "designated polling place" located in the county seat of a large county, far away from the low-income community where few have the cars, or the gas money to drive to the county seat.

In Harris County, TX (Houston area) they have eliminated large numbers of polling places so that people will have to travel further (and wait longer) to get to the "designated polling places."

And of course it's hard to vote at the polling places when they reject your voter registration application because you might have used a middle initial on your driver's license. They didn't give you a chance to correct the application by notifying you it was denied and why? Oops! The state denied 40% of voter registration apps. Obviously their application was not 'user-friendly.' It might have been designed to be obtuse so they could reject as many as possible.

Here where I live it's predominantly white and too far and too difficult for many people to get to polling places because of the extreme poverty here.

However, all the churches and some non-religious groups make sure to put the word out via everywhere (word of mouth, radio, television and news papers) phone numbers to call for free rides to go vote in-person, along with assistance and rides to help people become registered to vote who aren't currently registered.

This is an area that is some 97% white, and 75% or more living under the poverty line.

I'm sure the same can more easily be done in large cities, and if it doesn't affect white rights to vote here then you can't say it affects black Americans rights either.

And if a person cannot look at their ID and transcribe their name as written when the instructions state "as it is written on your driver's license" do you really want them deciding who gets to be president?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Let's begin with an answer to this: "What's a 'white nationalist,' and what, specifically, do they want?'"

A fair question deserving a fair answer. Let's break it down into two parts:

(BLUF: these are, of course, IMHO, but feel free to offer alternative definitions if you choose to disagree)

First, "nationalist": what separates a nationalist from a patriot is that while a patriot is motivated by love of their country, a nationalist is driven by contempt, disdain, or in extreme cases, outright hatred of anything not of their country... it seems like a subtle distinction, but it's actually a very important one. " I don't think of myself as the best... Just all of you as the worst," so to speak.

Now add "White" to the equation and you've got someone who has equated race (specifically, the white race) as part of that national identity... which means anything not white cannot be part of "their" nation, and since anything not of "their" nation is inherently inferior, well... there you go.

Ergo, "White Nationalist."

 

[Albion]

A fair question deserving a fair answer. Let's break it down into two parts:

(BLUF: these are, of course, IMHO, but feel free to offer alternative definitions if you choose to disagree)

First, "nationalist": what separates a nationalist from a patriot is that while a patriot is motivated by love of their country, a nationalist is driven by contempt, disdain, or in extreme cases, outright hatred of anything not of their country... it seems like a subtle distinction, but it's actually a very important one. " I don't think of myself as the best... Just all of you as the worst," so to speak.

That's a pretty superficial analysis, isn't it? It doesn't even attempt a definition of nationalism, being content to criticize some people who are self-styled nationalists or think they support nationalism.

If we do nothing more than consult some online dictionaries, the meaning of the word turns out to include the following:

--Thinking that one's nation will do better by acting independently rather than as part of some international pact that seeks to impose uniform values upon all peoples.

--Thinking that a particular culture or ethnic group deserves self-determination or that all such cultures are entitled to determine their own futures.

--Or, that nationalism is essentially the same as patriotism.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That's a pretty superficial analysis, isn't it? It doesn't even attempt a definition of nationalism, being content to criticize some people who are self-styled nationalists or think they support nationalism.

Perhaps a better definition is in order, then?

If we do nothing more than consult some online dictionaries, the meaning of the word turns out to include the following:

--Thinking that one's nation will do better by acting independently rather than as part of some international pact that seeks to impose uniform values upon all peoples.

Actually, this ties in nicely with my own definition, if you think to ask a crucial question: which is more important: to be independent, or to be successful?

Personally, I don't think anyone -- people or countries -- should be too proud to ask for help or accept advice. If I'm trying to do something and I see someone else is doing it better, shouldn't I see if I can learn something from them?

A patriot will learn from other countries to help improve his own. A nationalist might see such an act as a tacit admission of inferiority, and go it alone.

--Thinking that a particular culture or ethnic group deserves self-determination or that all such cultures are entitled to determine their own futures.

If you're going to go with that, then the wars (be they hot, cold, or trade) that America has been involved in shows that such nationalism is not practiced here -- and well it shouldn't, because such nationalism leads invariably to isolationism, which has never been a long-term benefit for any nation that attempted it.

--Or, that nationalism is essentially the same as patriotism.

Which I reject in favor of my own definition.

 

[childeye 2]

White is not a race.

 

[TLK Valentine]

White is not a race.

Well, it's not a political agenda or a religion, so what "is" it?

 

[disciple Clint]

After explosive surgical gerrymandering and 19 states taking actions to make it more difficult, and in some cases near impossible, for people who tend to vote progressive to vote, you are trying to say, "Well Democrats did pretty well" before we put our collective thumbs on the scale....

What Republicans did is leave Democrats up in the air angrily flailing at the injustice and chicanery.

And I might say seemingly unable to prove any of it with evidence

 

[disciple Clint]

A fair question deserving a fair answer. Let's break it down into two parts:

(BLUF: these are, of course, IMHO, but feel free to offer alternative definitions if you choose to disagree)

First, "nationalist": what separates a nationalist from a patriot is that while a patriot is motivated by love of their country, a nationalist is driven by contempt, disdain, or in extreme cases, outright hatred of anything not of their country... it seems like a subtle distinction, but it's actually a very important one. " I don't think of myself as the best... Just all of you as the worst," so to speak.

Now add "White" to the equation and you've got someone who has equated race (specifically, the white race) as part of that national identity... which means anything not white cannot be part of "their" nation, and since anything not of "their" nation is inherently inferior, well... there you go.

Ergo, "White Nationalist."

a simpler definition: if you do not share my beliefs you are a racist.

 

[TLK Valentine]

a simpler definition: if you do not share my beliefs you are a racist.

Playing the victim card on oneself is hardly a refutation.

 

[Fantine]

Everything you ever wanted to know about gerrymandering, Disciple Clint. The Brennan Center for Justice is a watchdog for advocacy and fairness.

Be prepared for evidence.

https://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/2021-02/2021_2_11_State of Redistricting.pdf

 

[childeye 2]

Well, it's not a political agenda or a religion, so what "is" it?

I would say it's either misinformation or disinformation that manifests or serves a political and/or religious agenda. I think that "Nationalist", in these times, means to many people, self-dependent and self-determined, as in not too intertwined with the economies of other nations. When we add "white" to nationalist I think it implies a desire to preserve a certain perceived culture.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I would say it's either misinformation or disinformation that manifests or serves a political and/or religious agenda. I think that "Nationalist", in these times, means to many people, self-dependent and self-determined, as in not too intertwined with the economies of other nations. When we add "white" to nationalist I think it implies a desire to preserve a certain perceived culture.

Except that "many people" considered Donald to be a nationalist, despite the fact that his fortunes were very much intertwined with the economies of other nations...it's not a consistent definition.

 

[childeye 2]

Except that "many people" considered Donald to be a nationalist, despite the fact that his fortunes were very much intertwined with the economies of other nations...it's not a consistent definition.

Well, I think it's being generally used as either misinformation or disinformation to begin with. Trump spoke in terms of creating better trade policies that were more beneficial to the U.S... Therefore, if new trade negotiations should fail, it still would not matter because it can still be claimed that it just makes the U.S. more self-dependent.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Well, I think it's being generally used as either misinformation or disinformation to begin with.

A reasonable opinion -- but what does it mean?

Trump spoke in terms of creating better trade policies that were more beneficial to the U.S...

Because entanglement in foreign economies is not only beneficial, but inevitable -- thus torpedoing your definition of nationalism.

Therefore, if new trade negotiations should fail, it still would not matter because it can still be claimed that it just makes the U.S. more self-dependent.

Except many of Donald's trade policies failed, and the US is no more independent as a result.

 

[renniks]

New York Democratic congressman Mondaire Jones said on Thursday that “we are living through the worst assault on the right to vote since Jim Crow. And yesterday, on the Senate floor, white nationalists used the Jim Crow filibuster to block voting-rights legislation.”
Thoughts??
House Democrat Calls 52 Senators ‘White Nationalists’ | National Review

Buzz word meaning nothing?

 

[Aldebaran]

I would say it's either misinformation or disinformation that manifests or serves a political and/or religious agenda. I think that "Nationalist", in these times, means to many people, self-dependent and self-determined, as in not too intertwined with the economies of other nations. When we add "white" to nationalist I think it implies a desire to preserve a certain perceived culture.

When the word "white" is added to "nationalist", it's meant to add a racial component to the label as a way to demonize those they apply the term to. Race and skin color means everything to those who use the term "white nationalist".