Freodin
Devout believer in a theologically different God
VM:
Exactly my point! As soon as they are "placed" somewhere - that is, someone formulated them, interpreted them, defined them as true or false, they are no longer objective.
Let´s take an example - a famous zen saying: if a tree falls in a forrest when there is noone around to here, does it make a sound?
Well, yes."Sound" is clearly defined. It doesn´t matter if it is heard or not. "Falling trees make a sound" is an objective true statement. It is independant from circumstance and interpreter.
The next one: "homosexuality is bad"
"Bad" is not clearly defined. Many people can agree to a very basic definiton, some not even on that.
So this statement is true or false, depending on the interpreter. Regarding the christian viewpoint, it is a subjective true statement.
supermagdalena:
Blessed-one:
But I don't understand how objective morals could be there unless placed there
Exactly my point! As soon as they are "placed" somewhere - that is, someone formulated them, interpreted them, defined them as true or false, they are no longer objective.
Let´s take an example - a famous zen saying: if a tree falls in a forrest when there is noone around to here, does it make a sound?
Well, yes."Sound" is clearly defined. It doesn´t matter if it is heard or not. "Falling trees make a sound" is an objective true statement. It is independant from circumstance and interpreter.
The next one: "homosexuality is bad"
"Bad" is not clearly defined. Many people can agree to a very basic definiton, some not even on that.
So this statement is true or false, depending on the interpreter. Regarding the christian viewpoint, it is a subjective true statement.
supermagdalena:
Subjective, not-absolute morals are still morals. Society always has some moral code, but it may differ from culture to culture. Some moral rules are more widely accepted than others, but none are absolute. All depends on a societies ability to enforce moral laws.Would anyone here want live in a society with no moral standard? Where it was okay to rape and kill as you pleased? Morals are important.
It seems he did a appaling job with that. We are still hurting each other.God gave them to us because He knew we were going to hurt eachother, He was trying to prevent that.
Blessed-one:
To the child, it is not stealing. It wants something, it takes something. It is not until it learns that there are things that are not for him to take, that it gets the notion of "stealing".Assumes (generally) that parents won't steal at home, and that the education system doesn't teach you how to lie, how does the child come up with stealing?
Sadly, we don´t have that. Conscience is a learned and culture conditioned thing.we all have a conscious in our hearts that distinguish the basicity between moral and immoral.
Strangly, different religions seem to have different moral codes. Until God reveals the only true one, we will have to either accept the difference, or accept change - on our side as well as on the other.As we grow, our sense of morality seems to decay, that's where religion comes in. Humans're born with knowing what's right and wrong,
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