Troy -- Is it okay?

Wroth · May 18, 2004

adams apple said:
Princess_ballet is talking sense people. Sex isn't scary and yukky. It's sexy. Just get over it.
I think it's a shame that they didn't show the historically acurate amount of nakedness. And lets not get into the whole gay sex issue.
Anyway, there are much worse things on film than brad pitts ****

The what issue?! Where did gay sex come into play in the movie? Last I checked Achilles was shown with 3 women over the course of the movie, Paris with Helen, Aggamemnon is married *and* takes a concubine in the story, Hector is married.... who is the gay character you're talking about?

MoonlessNight · May 18, 2004

So, just out of curiosity, anyone have an estimate of how much of Troy is actually taken from the Iliad? From the previews I'm guessing around maybe 35 percent tops (with the rest being stuff before the Iliad, stuff from the Odyssey and generic movie filler), is that about accurate?

USincognito · May 18, 2004

I watched and enjoyed USA network's Helen of Troy. I doubt I will even rent the DVD of Troy.

Ray K · May 18, 2004

USincognito,
I thought Helen of Troy was a travesty. Troy is far more faithful to the original story.

The TV version didn't even have Patroclus!

PatrickM · May 18, 2004

MoonlessNight said:
So, just out of curiosity, anyone have an estimate of how much of Troy is actually taken from the Iliad? From the previews I'm guessing around maybe 35 percent tops (with the rest being stuff before the Iliad, stuff from the Odyssey and generic movie filler), is that about accurate?

It might be closer to 50%, but I imagine that's why they didn't refer to it in any way as a movie about the Iliad, IMHO.

The story did follow along with Homer, in general. It appears as if they wanted to make a more historical movie, as much as is possible, rather than a movie on Homer's poem.

MoonlessNight · May 19, 2004

PatrickM said:
It might be closer to 50%, but I imagine that's why they didn't refer to it in any way as a movie about the Iliad, IMHO.

The story did follow along with Homer, in general. It appears as if they wanted to make a more historical movie, as much as is possible, rather than a movie on Homer's poem.

I'm not complaining that it's not based on the Iliad, since I never expected it to be. But the Iliad is the only story of the Trojan war that I enjoyed (I liked the Odyssey too, just not the Trojan war parts), so I'm wondering how much of the movie is the part of the story that I liked.

PatrickM · May 19, 2004

MoonlessNight said:
I'm not complaining that it's not based on the Iliad, since I never expected it to be. But the Iliad is the only story of the Trojan war that I enjoyed (I liked the Odyssey too, just not the Trojan war parts), so I'm wondering how much of the movie is the part of the story that I liked.

Agreed. Not to get too off topic

, since you liked the Odyssey, have you seen "O Brother, where art thou"? It's a very clever remake of the Odyssey, and George Clooney is great as Odesseus!

LifeInYou · May 27, 2004

My boyfriend and I walked out soon after Brad Pitt started crying after he killed the one prince :sick:

There was too much going on in the movie (i thought) and it was far too long.

I didn't feel like I totally wasted his money

(it was worth seeing the setting and costumes alone to me) but I was pretty dissapointed with the film overall.

Amadeus · May 27, 2004

I saw the film, and in my opinion, it would be great without the sex-scenes, or at least without the pre-marital promiscuity(Sp?). There is a bit of an anti-war message in the movie, a reflection of the present times. I have no problem with non-distasteful nudity, and it got me to thinking about how nudity was acceptable back then and how it is rejected today. The idolatry that's shown in the movie can be a good example of the futility of worshipping false gods.

Sir_Sauron · May 27, 2004

So what? It's sex, its not like it's Nick Bergs beheading on screen. Go take a leak when it starts if you have a problem with it. ANY Brad Pitt movie in it has him screwing some girl. It's totally un-necessary to the story in my opinion, but their going to show it anyways.

Henaynei · May 28, 2004

Jazzcat said:
I compare making a movie to a game of chess. [snip] But there is one piece to a chess game that is more powerful than them all. A piece that often goes unseen and unnoticed, yet it governs the world in which the pieces exist and move. It determines and defines their bounderies. Any guesses???

The person who buys the ticket or rents the movie..... me.

SUNSTONE · May 28, 2004

Amadeus said:
I saw the film, and in my opinion, it would be great without the sex-scenes, or at least without the pre-marital promiscuity(Sp?). There is a bit of an anti-war message in the movie, a reflection of the present times. I have no problem with non-distasteful nudity, and it got me to thinking about how nudity was acceptable back then and how it is rejected today. The idolatry that's shown in the movie can be a good example of the futility of worshipping false gods.

The only nudity I remember is when Brad got up from those two girls. But that was a quick scene. I'm positive Helen didn't show anything, but it was close, and the attraction was obvious between both of them, so that steemed up the scene.

Unless you totally ban all nudity movies, meaning you refuse to support such a movie. Then this movie is worth renting, and fast forwarding through that one scene. Its only like 10 seconds.
But this movie is no Braveheart, but its still fun to watch.

Periann · May 31, 2004

I just saw this movie today, and in my opinion, it was just OK. Some of the writing was just plain cheesy and predictable. Maybe it was the atmosphere I saw it in or something...I swear, our theatre hated anything Orlando Bloom's character said. I mean people LAUGHED out loud, like he'd just said a joke, every time he finished speaking. It was entertaining, but I dont think I will remember this as one of the best movies of 2004.

kurabrhm · Jun 5, 2004

Jazzcat said:
Has anyone heard anything about the movie coming out starring Eric Bana, Orlando Bloom, Matt Damon and Sean Bean called Troy? Is it a Christian-friendly movie? If not, what are some of the problems with it?
Thanks, Jazzcat

Troy is ultimately a movie about achieving peace through sacrifice. We all commit sacrifices and this is done through various methods. Examples - war, making love etc etc.
Its a good movie since the picture that it draws of ancient Meditaranian empires is very well done. Acting wise, Brad Pitt does an excellent job of reincarnating James Dean as an ancient warrior! Peter O Toole is magnificent. The three things I most liked about the film are the setting, the background score and the sentimentality conveyed through the director/writer's depiction of the history of the Trojan wars.

kurabrhm · Jun 5, 2004

adams apple said:
AND, why do non of the main actors look remotely greek or turkish (Troy's sort of in turkey isn't it?). I mean,the only darkish actors are the mexican extras. It's worse than the passion of the Christ

Well if there's one excuse then that would be that much of ancient Greek and Roman history has been revised by Western scholars. The teaching is mainly done in Western institutions. Anyway, I can't think of a Turkish or Greek actor who could match up to Brad Pitt. The fact is simply that having a real Turk or Greek actor as the lead man would actually spoil the movie since the international audience expecting a Hollywood film would be throughly dissapointed.

kurabrhm · Jun 5, 2004

But at least they had Eric Bana keeping to his true Aussie accent. Further, they also had Sean Bean keeping his Northern English accent. Which all gives it a sense of realism that is quite unique.

kurabrhm · Jun 5, 2004

PatrickM said:
LOL! (I think )?

Brian Cox has a bit of an "olive" complexion. So did Eric Bana, and has dark hair.

Well, do you know of any Turkish actors with a "rear" like Brad's??

Well, to his credit, Eric Bana is actually half Croatian from his father's side. So, at least Bana is from Eastern Europe and of course naturally has Mediteranian influences.

kurabrhm · Jun 5, 2004

Wroth said:
I saw it last night... pretty good movie. Didn't leave me in awe as I left the theatre but the plot twists you around like a wet cloth - you can't choose who to cheer for because both protagonists (Hector and Achilles) are characters you want to see win.

As for casting, Brad Pitt at Achilles was pretty decent, same with Hector. However... Orlando Bloom is a whiny little boy in this movie. I hated him from the first scene I saw of him. His character is an idiot, he doesn't have great lines and I don't feel he had a decent performance. The only good choice about it is the fact that Bloom is a tiny guy that can portray weak characters... and Paris is one of the weakest and dumbest I've seen.

I can't recall totally the story behind Agamemnon, but I don't ever recall him being such a total jerk... maybe I'm forgetting something but in the movie you loath him. The choice of actors (same bad guy who was in X2) was fairly good, he is able to pull of a "casual evil" type display, making you think of him as something vile all the time.

There was also a bit of liberal movie-making adjustments to the story - the duel between Menelaus and Paris for example, never happened. Check out http://www.bulfinch.org/fables/bull28.html here to read more about what happened to the heroes according to Homer and other tales from that day that the movie is (mostly) based upon.

According to one well known source on the internet, Orlando Bloom is actually six feet tall. Brad - just under 6 feet! So how come Brad Pitt appears taller in Troy than Orlando Bloom? Wierd!

kurabrhm · Jun 5, 2004

Raindog said:
Troy is a horridly bad movie. It's really hard to make a 10 year war boring, but somehow they succeeded. It's just soo badly edited combined with a bad script.

I'm not concerned that they played fast and loose with the Illiad, but they totally forgot to endow this movie with any kind of emotional attachment of any kind to any major character. Helen is about as deep as a sheet of paper, and not that good looking. Andromache has absoulty nothing to do. The Greeks are in it for the land, Achillies for the fame.

I've always maintained that the fall of Troy is Hector's story, an noble warrior drawn into a war he cannot win by his sinviling little brother. The film kind of uses this faux docu-drama style where no ones characters are really fleshed out.

The worst thing about this movie though is their replacement of the theme. The Illiad and the Oddyess are both warnings about the price of pride. The movie makers have instead gone the other way and said the only way to get immortality is by doing great deeds in battles that probably don't need to be fought.

As far as the "Unneccessary" sex scenes that people on this board are griping about you should keep in mind one thing. Troy, even at an R rating is still a rather sanatized version what the story truely entails. Warfare of that time was brutal beyond belief, and rape would have been the rule of the day among the armies of Greece.

War and rape - a theme that the character of Brian Cox epitomised!

Troy -- Is it okay?

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