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God did not create from nothing

Warden_of_the_Storm

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I'll pass.

You're trying not to understand.

And doing a good job.

If Warden wants to clarify to you what he meant by that, so be it.

No, I want to understand what you meant because it really seemed jumbled and was quite confusing.

Unless P means Premise and C means Conclusion or something like that.

I don't need to add commentary to something that is clearly mean to lump you, Platte and all YEC Biblical literalists into the same boat, which you deserve to be lumped into.
 
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Stopped_lurking

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I'll pass.

You're trying not to understand.

And doing a good job.

If Warden wants to clarify to you what he meant by that, so be it.

So what about presenting arguments in support of your premises? Those are your premises (no one elses), you should support them if you can.
 
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dlamberth

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Why do you repeat this over and over again - what you see is what God created.
This Earth is many billions of years old. That's what we see, that is reality. There is no evidence of a global flood. That's what the earth is showing us about itself, that is reality. I repeat that over and over because of the tendency by some to imagine that God is deceiving us in one way or another in order to make their arguments work. Or they deny what we actually are able to see in the Earth and the knowledge gained. God (at least the one I Love and pray to) has no hidden agenda. He is straight up and almost in our face with the truth and reality of things of this Earth as well as the whole of the Cosmos. I have an interest in geology, particularly focused in the Pacific Northwest which is where I live. You can't squeeze 4 billion years of a changing Earth history into 6000 years. You bring up written history, but ignore geological history like it doesn't exist. But it does exist and tells us a lot of Earths history. But you don't look at that. So I repeat.
 
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dlamberth

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Good word - C14 dating is ambiguous
There have been many millions of Radiocarbon test done world wide since 1949. An upper-end estimate of 6-8 million test have been performed. For something so ambiguous, as you wrongly say, it's seems to have a good world wide history of being pretty reliable.
 
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Platte

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This Earth is many billions of years old. That's what we see, that is reality. There is no evidence of a global flood. That's what the earth is showing us about itself, that is reality. I repeat that over and over because of the tendency by some to imagine that God is deceiving us in one way or another in order to make their arguments work. Or they deny what we actually are able to see in the Earth and the knowledge gained. God (at least the one I Love and pray to) has no hidden agenda. He is straight up and almost in our face with the truth and reality of things of this Earth as well as the whole of the Cosmos. I have an interest in geology, particularly focused in the Pacific Northwest which is where I live. You can't squeeze 4 billion years of a changing Earth history into 6000 years. You bring up written history, but ignore geological history like it doesn't exist. But it does exist and tells us a lot of Earths history. But you don't look at that. So I repeat.
So If I say the Earth (as well as Adam, all the animals, and the plants/trees) was created with age - you dismiss that because that would be calling God a liar?
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Someone who understands C14 knows all the issues with it.

No-one has said that it doesn't have issues. You on the other hand have been calling it science fiction repeatedly with no basis and for the only reasons being that you don't understand it and what little you understand about it, it clashes with your religious world view.
 
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dlamberth

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So If I say the Earth (as well as Adam, all the animals, and the plants/trees) was created with age - you dismiss that because that would be calling God a liar?
Not quite.
I'd dismiss it because it is YOU who would be calling God a deceiver.
 
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sjastro

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Good word - C14 dating is ambiguous
You may have noticed in other posts C14 dating has a value and an error.

The error is based on a Poisson distribution for low counts which looks like this.

1782850895365.jpeg

By all means explain which would require the overthrowing of basic statistics, if C14 dating is an ambiguous process how does it lead to this specific type of statistical distribution?
 
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dlamberth

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Someone who understands C14 knows all the issues with it.
I don't believe that you do understand the full scope of radiocarbon testing.
 
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Platte

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No-one has said that it doesn't have issues. You on the other hand have been calling it science fiction repeatedly with no basis and for the only reasons being that you don't understand it and what little you understand about it, it clashes with your religious world view.
Nice try. Religion has nothing to do with it. C14 is bad. Really bad. You say I have no basis at the same time you admit it has issues
 
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Platte

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I don't believe that you do understand the full scope of radiocarbon testing.
I do
You may have noticed in other posts C14 dating has a value and an error.

The error is based on a Poisson distribution for low counts which looks like this.

By all means explain which would require the overthrowing of basic statistics, if C14 dating is an ambiguous process how does it lead to this specific type of statistical distribution?
here is how bad it is:

Person was dated using C14. It turns out the C14 result was off by 1000 years. Why? Because the person ate a lot of shrimp when they were alive. The daughter ate a lot of shrimp also. Her C14 dating was accurate! C14 is bad, really bad.
 
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sjastro

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here is how bad it is:

Person was dated using C14. It turns out the C14 result was off by 1000 years. Why? Because the person ate a lot of shrimp when they were alive. The daughter ate a lot of shrimp also. Her C14 dating was accurate! C14 is bad, really bad.
Provide the source for this so we can reach our own conclusions.
 
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dlamberth

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I do

here is how bad it is:

Person was dated using C14. It turns out the C14 result was off by 1000 years. Why? Because the person ate a lot of shrimp when they were alive. The daughter ate a lot of shrimp also. Her C14 dating was accurate! C14 is bad, really bad.
There's been roughly 3 to 5 million or more C14 test done since 1949. Are they all bad test and need to be discarded? If C14 testing is so bad as you claim, why so many test through the years?

Why are you ignoring all of the information shared here about C14 testing and the work done to overcome it's short comings?
It's like your stuck in a hole and can't get out or something. And other than the results of C14 testing flies in the face of your 6000 time line, Im not understanding why.
 
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dlamberth

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Provide the source for this so we can reach our own conclusions.
I found a bit on reddit about this where it was Viking bones that were tested. They are claiming in that thread that fish contains a lot of carbon and eating a lot of it puts that carbon in the bones. I have no idea of the validity of any of that. But even if true, it's not enough to make generalized claims that C14 is bad. But also, and @Platte ignores this, C14 testing is verified by other sources. It's not a stand alone look.
 
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dlamberth

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So I asked AI about the carbon content in fish:

Fish do contain carbon—but not in unusually high amounts compared to other living things.


Why fish contain carbon​

All living organisms, including fish, are built from organic molecules like proteins, fats, and carbohydrates. These molecules are based on carbon, which is a fundamental element of life in biology.

How much carbon is in fish?​

  • Fish tissue is mostly water (about 60–80%)
  • The rest is organic material, which is largely carbon-based
  • By dry weight, a significant portion (often ~40–50%) is carbon
  • By total weight (including water), the carbon content is much lower

Compared to other foods​

  • Fish have similar carbon content to other meats like chicken or beef
  • Plant foods also contain a lot of carbon (because they’re made of carbohydrates and fibers)

Bottom line​

Fish are not especially “high-carbon” compared to other living things—they contain carbon simply because all life on Earth is carbon-based.
 
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sjastro

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I found a bit on reddit about this where it was Viking bones that were tested. They are claiming in that thread that fish contains a lot of carbon and eating a lot of it puts that carbon in the bones. I have no idea of the validity of any of that. But even if true, it's not enough to make generalized claims that C14 is bad. But also, and @Platte ignores this, C14 testing is verified by other sources. It's not a stand alone look.
Despite various misgivings about AI one thing they are very good at as LLM's, they are very efficient search engines.
I copy and pasted @Platte's post into ChatGpt-5.5 and asked it to find the source and any relevant references that come close to the post.

Yes. I found the exact wording in a public Christian Forums thread titled “God did not create from nothing”. In post #2,013, the user says:

“Person was dated using C14… off by 1000 years… because the person ate a lot of shrimp… The daughter ate a lot of shrimp also… C14 is bad, really bad.” (Christian Forums)
The closest pseudoscience/creationist source behind this appears to be the Institute for Creation Research article “Viking Bones Contradict Carbon-14 Assumptions”. It argues that a seafood diet, including “shellfish (shrimp or crab),” undermines assumptions in C14 dating, and then uses this to imply that radiocarbon dating is unreliable. (Institute for Creation Research)

However, the actual scientific case is the Repton Viking burial study, and it does not show that C14 is “bad.” It shows that marine reservoir corrections must be applied when bone collagen comes partly from marine food. The peer-reviewed paper says the Repton radiocarbon uncertainty was resolved by applying the appropriate marine-reservoir correction. (Cambridge University Press & Assessment)

The “1000 years” part looks exaggerated. In the Repton case, one clearly discussed grave had a terrestrial C14 calibration that was at least about 100 years too early, not 1000 years; after correcting for marine diet, it matched the archaeological evidence. (Cambridge University Press & Assessment)

So the claim is best described as:

A forum-level pseudoscience claim based on a distorted version of the marine-reservoir effect.

The real science is:

Eating a lot of marine food can make bone collagen appear older in radiocarbon dating unless corrected, but this is a known, measurable, and correctable effect—not evidence that C14 dating is unreliable.
So @Platte is engaging in poetic license or to be brutally honest straight out lying to make a point as do creationist sites when attacking science.
Any neutral observer should ask themselves if @Platte and sites such as ICR and AIG have to resort to lying in arguing the Earth is 6000 years old does it makes creationism even credible?
 
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Platte

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So I asked AI about the carbon content in fish:

Fish do contain carbon—but not in unusually high amounts compared to other living things.


Why fish contain carbon​

All living organisms, including fish, are built from organic molecules like proteins, fats, and carbohydrates. These molecules are based on carbon, which is a fundamental element of life in biology.

How much carbon is in fish?​

  • Fish tissue is mostly water (about 60–80%)
  • The rest is organic material, which is largely carbon-based
  • By dry weight, a significant portion (often ~40–50%) is carbon
  • By total weight (including water), the carbon content is much lower

Compared to other foods​

  • Fish have similar carbon content to other meats like chicken or beef
  • Plant foods also contain a lot of carbon (because they’re made of carbohydrates and fibers)

Bottom line​

Fish are not especially “high-carbon” compared to other living things—they contain carbon simply because all life on Earth is carbon-based.
I said shrimp. Not fish
 
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AV1611VET

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