Christian nationalist pastor McPherson: "Empathy is aligned with hell."

2PhiloVoid · Feb 17, 2026

o_mlly said:
? Why are you looking to argue when none is needed? Hobbes fidelity to Christianity does not matter; his insight does. Do you disagree that w/o Christ our lives would be more like the lives Hobbes described?

Ok. Let's not argue anymore about how empathy is a legitimate value.

o_mlly · Feb 18, 2026

FireDragon76 said:
Lots of eastern patristic theology wouldn't portray salvation in that manner, as merely "plan B".

In His eternal, omniscient, and immutable mind, there could be no "plan B"; only "plan A". Augustine recognized such in labeling the cause of original sin as felix culpa. I suppose we, who experience sequentially rather than eternally, might see that as a "plan B".

FireDragon76 · Feb 18, 2026

o_mlly said:
In His eternal, omniscient, and immutable mind, there could be no "plan B"; only "plan A". Augustine recognized such in labeling the cause of original sin as felix culpa. I suppose we, who experience sequentially rather than eternally, might see that as a "plan B".

In both the Scotist and more eastern understanding of soteriology, suppose God created a world where sin never happened... would God still become man? Yes, of course, because communion, not cancelling a juridical debt or taking on a penalty, is the end or purpose of salvation. Cancelling of debts is more of a consequence, not a cause. Salvation says more about the goodness and dignity of creation than it does about its fallenness, in this perspective.

weary2025 · Feb 18, 2026

Empathy to me is feeling other people's heart where they suffer and struggle. Its not about justifying sin.

o_mlly · Feb 19, 2026

FireDragon76 said:
In both the Scotist and more eastern understanding of soteriology, suppose God created a world where sin never happened... would God still become man? Yes, of course, ...

A supposal (like C. S. Lewis)?

Possibly, but not "of course". For who can scrutinize the mind of God?

FireDragon76 said:
... because communion, not cancelling a juridical debt or taking on a penalty, is the end or purpose of salvation. ...

But Adam did sin. If mankind did not disobey God then why would there be a need for his salvation, i.e., the deliverance of the soul from sin and its consequences. Tend the garden, be fruitful and multiply ... immortality, oneness with God, preternatural gifts -- would that not be a life well-lived?.

FireDragon76 said:
Cancelling of debts is more of a consequence, not a cause.

An All-just God, the One who requires at-one-ment, is the cause of the Incarnation.

FireDragon76 said:
Salvation says more about the goodness and dignity of creation than it does about its fallenness, in this perspective.

Prior to Adam's sin, creation was good; God proclaimed it to be so.

So, what does Christ mean to a world made by God in perfect order and disrupted by original sin? The Summa attempts to answer that question, an answer that has been satisfactory for centuries: Christ has restored the original order of the world. Christian theology has described the religion of order, and its doctrines are about a return to original order.

Multiple theologies underpinning a soteriology are interdependent and, to remain systematic, must cohere. For instance, the Catechism of the Catholic Church points out, “. . . we cannot tamper with the revelation of original sin without undermining the mystery of Christ” (110). To be respected, a speculative theology of salvation, indeed, must address simultaneously and coherently our sizeable deposit of faith.

FireDragon76 · Feb 21, 2026

o_mlly said:
Our shared fallen humanity does require the grace of Christ's sacrifice, and His prophetic witness in order to achieve our personal transformation. Hobbes saw as much. Who better than Christ is there to socially contract with?

My understanding of Christian theology, shaped by studying both patristic sources and neopatristic theology, doesn't lead me to conclude that one must be a confessional Christian or live in a confessionally Christian state to recognize what we would call natural law. It's a basic idea in classical Protestant thought that Jesus's human nature and particularly doesn't "enclose" the Logos or Reason, and it's also consistent with what I know of patristic theology as well. To my knowledge, this is close to the teachings of the Catholic Church (Lumens Gentium), that while the fullness of revelation is found in the Church's teachings, this doesn't imply that the Church encloses all truth, or that other religions or worldviews are necessarily divorced from participation in God's creative and redemptive activity. When we see a non-Christian living out recognizeable virtues, this isn't an exception to a rule, but demonstrates a deeper coherence in the Christian worldview than merely a strictly nominalist account of salvation or formalistic account of grace.

o_mlly · Feb 21, 2026

FireDragon76 said:
My understanding of Christian theology, shaped by studying both patristic sources and neopatristic theology, doesn't lead me to conclude that one must be a confessional Christian or live in a confessionally Christian state to recognize what we would call natural law. It's a basic idea in classical Protestant thought that Jesus's human nature and particularly doesn't "enclose" the Logos or Reason, and it's also consistent with what I know of patristic theology as well. To my knowledge, this is close to the teachings of the Catholic Church (Lumens Gentium), that while the fullness of revelation is found in the Church's teachings, this doesn't imply that the Church encloses all truth, or that other religions or worldviews are necessarily divorced from participation in God's creative and redemptive activity. When we see a non-Christian living out recognizeable virtues, this isn't an exception to a rule, but demonstrates a deeper coherence in the Christian worldview than merely a strictly nominalist account of salvation or formalistic account of grace.

Grace is a mystery.

Karl Rahner, a Jesuit priest and theologian, had a strong influence in the Second Vatican Council. Rahner calls grace the “supernatural existential,” or God’s self-communication, and he understands grace to be a fundamental dimension of being human, affecting all people at all times.

Describing the “supernatural existential,” or indwelling grace as God’s self-communication is similar to the explanation of conscience in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which reads:

Deep within his conscience man discovers a law which he has not laid upon himself but which he must obey. Its voice, ever calling him to love and to do what is good and to avoid evil, sounds in his heart at the right moment . . . For man has in his heart a law inscribed by God . . . His conscience is man’s most secret core and his sanctuary. There he is alone with God whose voice echoes in his depths. (490)

JustaPewFiller · May 26, 2026

Note - it is very possible this has been brought up somewhere in the 20 pages of this thread. But, I ran across it last night and it made me think of this thread and I thought I'd pass it along...

Dr. Gustave M Gilbert was a Captain in the US Army. He was appointed to serve as prison psychologist, with the duty of working with a psychiatrist to evaluate and observe the detainees in the Nuremberg war crimes trials after WW2.

As part of that work - he came to the following conclusion..

"I told you once that I was searching for the nature of evil. I think I've come close to defining it: a lack of empathy. It's the one characteristic that connects all the defendants. A genuine incapacity to feel with their fellow man. Evil, I think, is the absence of empathy." -- Dr. Gustave M Gilbert

Just some words from the past to ponder from a man who studied a lot of very evil men..

The Barbarian · May 26, 2026

FireDragon76 said:
To my knowledge, this is close to the teachings of the Catholic Church (Lumens Gentium), that while the fullness of revelation is found in the Church's teachings, this doesn't imply that the Church encloses all truth, or that other religions or worldviews are necessarily divorced from participation in God's creative and redemptive activity.

DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965

"Religions, however, that are bound up with an advanced culture have struggled to answer the same questions by means of more refined concepts and a more developed language. Thus in Hinduism, men contemplate the divine mystery and express it through an inexhaustible abundance of myths and through searching philosophical inquiry. They seek freedom from the anguish of our human condition either through ascetical practices or profound meditation or a flight to God with love and trust. Again, Buddhism, in its various forms, realizes the radical insufficiency of this changeable world; it teaches a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself."

The Barbarian · May 26, 2026

It shouldn't need to be mentioned that the news of evil we are seeing constantly, almost invariably are associated with people who exhibit or exhibited very little empathy for others. It is not necessary to name evil people; we can all name examples.

essentialsaltes · 2026-06-17T14:36:11-0500

House Republican Brandon Gill Says Democrats Should ‘Tone Down the Rhetoric’ or They’ll Create ‘The Next Dietrich Bonhoeffer’

We need both sides of the aisle, but particularly the left, to tone down the rhetoric. Listen, I that we can all agree or we all ought to be able to agree that political violence is always wrong, but the reality is whenever you have Democrats who are labeling Republicans Nazis every single day, calling ICE agents the Gestapo, you eventually expect something like this to happen. Somebody’s gonna listen to that and believe that they are the next Dietrich Bonhoeffer and act on that and that’s what we’re seeing here.

--

Apart from his theological writings, Bonhoeffer was known for his staunch resistance to the Nazi dictatorship, including vocal opposition to Nazi euthanasia program and genocidal persecution of Jews.[2] He was arrested in April 1943 by the Gestapo and imprisoned at Tegel Prison for a year and a half. Later, he was transferred to Flossenbürg concentration camp.

He was hanged on 9 April 1945 during the collapse of the Nazi regime.

ViaCrucis · 2026-06-17T22:49:18-0500

essentialsaltes said:
House Republican Brandon Gill Says Democrats Should ‘Tone Down the Rhetoric’ or They’ll Create ‘The Next Dietrich Bonhoeffer’
We need both sides of the aisle, but particularly the left, to tone down the rhetoric. Listen, I that we can all agree or we all ought to be able to agree that political violence is always wrong, but the reality is whenever you have Democrats who are labeling Republicans Nazis every single day, calling ICE agents the Gestapo, you eventually expect something like this to happen. Somebody’s gonna listen to that and believe that they are the next Dietrich Bonhoeffer and act on that and that’s what we’re seeing here.

--

Apart from his theological writings, Bonhoeffer was known for his staunch resistance to the Nazi dictatorship, including vocal opposition to Nazi euthanasia program and genocidal persecution of Jews.[2] He was arrested in April 1943 by the Gestapo and imprisoned at Tegel Prison for a year and a half. Later, he was transferred to Flossenbürg concentration camp.

He was hanged on 9 April 1945 during the collapse of the Nazi regime.

While Bonhoeffer is not alone, Bonhoeffer represents a particular fidelity to the Christian faith that does not abide the co-opting of religion by power in order to silence Christ. As such Bonhoeffer, and all who have ears to hear, will ever remain a threat to Fascism; which is in all its expressions, antithetical to Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

Religion, as a tool of power, is always evil. And those who promote religion as a tool of power, remain rebuked, condemned, and declared vipers and children of the devil by Christ, the ancient Prophets, and the holy apostles. And this will not change, even when those who are evil appeal to Christ, the apostles, and the prophets: for the words spoken in ancient times remain a condemnation they cannot avoid.

ViaCrucis · 2026-06-17T23:23:23-0500

Bonhoeffer had the AUDACITY to preach the Cross of Jesus Christ, when the world around him desecrated and committed profanity by swearing fealty to that damnable swastika.

For anyone to be compared to such a blessed and holy Saint of God would itself be an honor too great for words. I would go so far as to say that should I even be permitted to sit in the back row of the stadium in which Bonhoeffer receives his blessed martyr's crown would be an honor to great for words.

We don't need another Bonhoeffer. We need a million more Bonhoeffers.

This casual dismissal of Holy Dietrich, Saint and Martyr of Jesus Christ, puts me not only in a place of indignation--I am livid.

Nithavela · 2026-06-18T08:01:54-0500

ViaCrucis said:
Bonhoeffer had the AUDACITY to preach the Cross of Jesus Christ, when the world around him desecrated and committed profanity by swearing fealty to that damnable swastika.

For anyone to be compared to such a blessed and holy Saint of God would itself be an honor too great for words. I would go so far as to say that should I even be permitted to sit in the back row of the stadium in which Bonhoeffer receives his blessed martyr's crown would be an honor to great for words.

We don't need another Bonhoeffer. We need a million more Bonhoeffers.

This casual dismissal of Holy Dietrich, Saint and Martyr of Jesus Christ, puts me not only in a place of indignation--I am livid.

He's not being dismissed, he's actively being turned into a villain.

Fantine · 2026-06-18T16:47:08-0500

Sounds like Pastor McPherson has some first hand knowledge of hell.
Unsurprised.

Christian nationalist pastor McPherson: "Empathy is aligned with hell."

All nodes lead to Metropolis!

“Behold, I make all things new.”

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

“Behold, I make all things new.”

Well-Known Member

“Behold, I make all things new.”

Well-Known Member

Crabby Old White Guy

Crabby Old White Guy

Fact-Based Lifeform

House Republican Brandon Gill Says Democrats Should ‘Tone Down the Rhetoric’ or They’ll Create ‘The Next Dietrich Bonhoeffer’​

Confessional Lutheran

House Republican Brandon Gill Says Democrats Should ‘Tone Down the Rhetoric’ or They’ll Create ‘The Next Dietrich Bonhoeffer’​

Confessional Lutheran

you're in charge you can do it just get louis

Dona Quixote

Similar threads

House Republican Brandon Gill Says Democrats Should ‘Tone Down the Rhetoric’ or They’ll Create ‘The Next Dietrich Bonhoeffer’

House Republican Brandon Gill Says Democrats Should ‘Tone Down the Rhetoric’ or They’ll Create ‘The Next Dietrich Bonhoeffer’