Is Hell Annihilationism or Eternal Torment

Hentenza said:

“But your wrongdoings have caused a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59‬:‭2‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Isaiah 59:2 (NASB2020) - But your wrongdoings have caused a | YouVersion

But your wrongdoings have caused a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.

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“These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1‬:‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

2 Thessalonians 1:9 (NASB2020) - These people will pay the penalty o | YouVersion

These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

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““For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭55‬:‭8‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Isaiah 55:8-9 (NASB2020) - “For My thoughts are not your thoug | YouVersion

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways,” declares the Lord. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your tho

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“But our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭115‬:‭3‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Psalm 115:3 (NASB2020) - But our God is in the heavens; He d | YouVersion

But our God is in the heavens; He does whatever He pleases.

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As I said, God does as He pleases but it appears that you are telling God that He can’t do something so according to you He is not omnipotent?

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Appears that reading the NASB2020 has somewhat ruined your sights.

We are not and can not be aware of Ominpresence, because, we are not omnipresent. Generally speaking none of us are tuned in to His Presence in full at all times in all ways. And the same none of us really knows what that is and consists of. Scripture conveys Him, as much as we need to know. But it does not convey the entirety of God and can not. Type on paper is not God and God is not going to turn Himself into solely type on paper. Spirit is not type on paper or digits in cyberspace. It's reasonable to assume God is reasonable and employs hyper reason.

When you read for example that God can do as He pleases doesn't necessarily mean He stops being God, primarily because God upholds "all things" so there is no stopping God unless everything else stops.

Is that what you want Henny?

Using your methodology God would or could be technically a form of polytheism or even pantheism. So let's just brand your position for what it is. Another common form of heresy. The early church's deliberated exactly this kind of material when determining how God could be both Man, God and Spirit simultaneously and came up with the parameters of the Trinity and it's a pretty solid determination. Maybe you are not in the orthodox camp on this subject? Some cult maybe?

Blueprints said:

God is omnipresent by omniscience (Psa. 139). The Father's Person / Being is in an actual locale, in the 3rd Heaven (aka "paradise", "Eden, the garden of God"):

Mat_6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.​

Luk_11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.​

Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.​

Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.​

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.​

​

God is not in the sinner (see Rev. 3:20). God's omnipresence is not after the manner of pantheism, or panentheism. Both heresies and extremely dangerous. Thus God is not in the tree, the flower, &c., and the tree, flower are not God.

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Well, the fringe cult things do tend to come out of the wordwork when the 3 Om's come to play.

In orthodox trinity understandings, separating any of the 3 members of the trinity is a heresy foul. God being in the form of The Son did not stop The Father from being The Father. The "locale" of The Son did not change God or HIs Om's.

Some cults think God lives on the planet Kolub, also jokingly known as bullock if pronounced backwards.

Blueprints said:

The scripture raised by the other, is important:

Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.​

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Notions of sinlessness via legal compliance are also common in cults. I'm pretty sure that the SDA flirts with this one, heavily.

Hentenza said:

God can do as He pleases. Even you have no say so.

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So God can be omnipresent and not omnipresent if your doctrine requires it. Sure, why not? <Laugh>

Hentenza said:

God can do as He pleases. Even you have no say so.

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So He can be omniscient and still not know stuff simultaneously.

Hentenza said:

Yep. Eternal really does mean eternal.

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And dead is pretty much eternal unless one is resurrected. And what was the wages of sin, again? Oh, Not Death. Got it.

Hentenza said:

Y’all?

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Second person plural, Southern vernacular.

Hentenza said:

As opposed to your doctrine that was declared anathema?

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Really? Gimma a citation on that if you'd be so kind.

Now for my part, I consider the "memorialism" view of the Eucharist generally believed in Protestant denominations is at best heretical.

Hentenza said:

Strawman (or just ignorance).

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Of what? Your curious belief that there was no word in either Greek nor Hebrew that translates to the English word "death"?

And BTW, "strawmen" means attacking an opponents position which the opponent does not in fact hold. You seem to be lieve in means "position with which you don't agree", also know as the "nuh uh!"response.

Hentenza said:

No one has argued against a physical death. No, they've simply argued in favor of universal immortality, and idea which is nowhere supported by Sripture.

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Hentenza said:

The anathema doctrine is annihilation.

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Anathematized by whom and when? The Baptists in 1956?

Hentenza said:

As if God will murder His creation no matter how wicked.

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Ah, I remember that, the Lord Giveth, and the Lord murdereth away, or something like that, right? But God has, in the view of your sect, no problem of condemning His creatures to eternal torture. ForGod so loved the world that He won't mercifully remove sinful creatures from ever having existed, , but He will mercifully condemn then to live for all eternity under torture.

Hentenza said:

The early church saw through your error in due time and declared it anathema.

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You keep repeating that, but you've yet to provide any evidence of that. I know of the Church condemning Origen's view of universalism, or at least bits of it. As for conditionlism or universal redemption, they said little or nothing of it t all,

Hentenza said:

Irenaeus does not agree with you and neither most of mainstream Christianity. BUt then again, youe knowledge of Irenaeus is a matter of quote mining to try and find some who supports your notions or universal immortality.

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A fig for '"mainstream Christianity" that generally rejects the truth that the elements of the Eucharist are our Lord's Body and Blood. As for Irenaeous, you've obviously never read "Ahaingt Heresies", or likely anything else he ever wrote.

Hentenza said:

He states the following in Against Heresie
"Communion with God is life and light... but on as many as, according to their own choice, depart from God, He inflicts that separation from Himself which they have chosen of their own accord. But separation from God is death."

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<Laugh> Which is what earned him the reputation from some of being a "closet Conditionalist". I think you just scored yet another "own goal"

Jipsah said:

So God can be omnipresent and not omnipresent if your doctrine requires it. Sure, why not? <clip the rest>

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You offer nothing to the discussion. See ya!!

Be blessed