Adam, Eve, and Evolution

FredVB · Thursday at 7:01 AM

It would be harder explaining how life, or anything in the universe, came into being without God involved.

Blueprints · Thursday at 2:33 PM

tonychanyt said:
I ...

According to scripture, the age of the earth is approximately 6,251 years old (as of AD 2026) - Age Of The Earth : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Genesis 1-2, only addresses this one world (earth; Gen. 1:1), its (1st) heaven (sky, atmosphere; Gen. 1:20), land (dirt, Gen. 1:10) and sea (waters, Gen. 1:10), and the local Sol system (sun, moon and local Sol system "planets" or 'stars' (2 Kin. 23:5; Gen. 1:16), the other (2nd) heaven (Gen. 1:14), but does not actually address the rest of the already long ago created universe (3rd Heaven, and the unfallen worlds, with their unfallen beings; Job 38:4-7; 2 Cor. 12:2,4; Mat. 18:10-14; Luk. 15:4-7; Rev. 12:12). The 'age of the universe' is not explicitly given in scripture, except in general terms of 'ages'.

Christians over the centuries have believed this - The Redemption Of The Creation 7000 Years And The Everlasting Gospel Files : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

DL their citations here - https://archive.org/download/the-redemption-of-the-creation-7000-years-and-the-everlasting-gospel_202301/7000 Year Plan Of The Everlasting Gospel.odt

According to scripture, the "flood" was entirely global, not a localized event.

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

Gen 6:11 The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.

Gen 6:12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

Gen_6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Gen 6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

Gen 6:20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

Gen 6:21 And take thou unto thee of all food that is eaten, and thou shalt gather it to thee; and it shall be for food for thee, and for them.

Gen 7:3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

Gen 7:4 For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.

Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

Gen 7:19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

Gen 7:20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

Gen 7:21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

Gen 7:22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Gen 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.

Gen 8:4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat.

Gen 8:5 And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen.

Gen 9:9 And I, behold, I establish my covenant with you, and with your seed after you;

Gen 9:10 And with every living creature that is with you, of the fowl, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you; from all that go out of the ark, to every beast of the earth.

Gen 9:11 And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.

Gen 9:12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:

Gen 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

Gen 9:14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:

Gen 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.

Gen 9:17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

Consider the ramifications of a local versus global catastrophic event, and the covenant God is making. If there are others of mankind, besides Noah and his immediate family left alive upon the earth, in any location, then they are not a part of the covenant God makes in Gen. 6-9. The mountains of Ararat, has two main rises, as stated, "... Mount Ararat, officially Mount Ağrı, also known as Masis, is a snow- capped and dormant compound volcano in easternmost Turkey. It consists of two major volcanic cones: Greater Ararat and Little Ararat. Greater Ararat is the highest peak in Turkey and the Armenian highlands with an elevation of 5,137 m [16853.67 ft]; Little Ararat's elevation is 3,896 m [12782.15 ft]. ..." - Mount Ararat - Wikipedia

Think about the actual height between those two 'peaks;', between roughly 13,000 & 17,000 ft, and the Ark of Noah landing between them, and even seen over the centuries by the Chinese, Russians, Turks, and Americans:

The waters of that flood had to prevail even over those in order for Noah to land the way he did. That is no local flood. There is plenty of evidence of the global flood.

Consider that the "fowl of the air" ('reptiles', 'birds', 'mammals') had to be taken aboard, and all else outside of the ark were destroyed. A local flood does not explain this, but a global one does. Fowl can fly for miles, or even 'hop' from location to location to escape rising waters, as they do in local floods all of the time.

Consider also that local floods still happen, and yet there has never been another global flood of waters. This involves God's very promises and word about the matter.

Consider the rainbow itself, seen all over the world, a reminder from God to all mankind, not just a section / portion of mankind.

Consider "all the fountains of the great deep broken up", which is not a localized event, since the "fountains of the great deep" refer back to Genesis 1, and the whole earth / world's creation. There are also places in Job and Psalms which refer to the same.

Walt Brown (and Bryan Nickel explaining), Hydroplate model -

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Documentaries
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- - YouTube

Ancient Chinese Language & Wedding ceremony has Genesis & Flood in it:
- Creation God In Ancient China : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
- Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Texts, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine
- The Discovery of Genesis - The discovery of Genesis - The Bible and the Chinese language : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
- https://i.pinimg.com/originals/26/db/9d/26db9deb6ee327ff5e2f76d29d6a1546.jpg

Walter J. Veith (Ph.D. zoologist) - Amazing Discoveries With Walter J Veith : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Just for good measure, the Exodus:
- Patterns Of Evidence Series - Tim Mahoney : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
- Ipuwer Papyrus - The Ipuwer Papyrus—Were The 10 Biblical Plagues Real? - EARLY CHURCH HISTORY

Noah's Ark sightings over the centuries:
- https://web.archive.org/web/20170523080945/http://www.noahsark.it/Testimonies list.htm

Blueprints · Thursday at 2:34 PM

tonychanyt said:
I ...

Eyewitness sightings of the Ark throughout history:

· 275 BC – Berossus reporting on the history of Babylonia, claims that pilgrims went up a mountain in Armenia to carve amulets from the petrified pitch that covers the Ark (Berossus quoted by Abydenus (200 BC), Apollodorus (160 BC), Alexander Polyhistor (50 BC), Josephus (110 AD), Eusebius, (325 AD), Georgius Syncellus (800 AD)). - The Great Flood: Berossus - Livius - The Great Flood: Berossus - Livius

· 64 BC - 1st Century AD – Nicholas of Damascus (96th book) mentions remains of Noah's Ark, "... There is a great mountain in Armenia, over Minyas, called Baris, upon which it is reported that many who fled at the time of the Deluge were saved and that one who was carried in an ark came on shore upon the top of it; and that the remains of the timber were a great while preserved. ..."

· 50 AD – Josephus mentions remains of Noah's Ark 3 times, "... The Armenians call that spot the Landing-Place, for it was there that the Ark came safe to land and they show relics of it to this day. ...", "... This flood and the Ark are mentioned by all who have written histories of the barbarians. These matters are also mentioned by Hieronymus the Egyptian, author of the ancient history of Phoenicia, by Mnaseas and by many others and they are still shown to such as are desirous to see them. ..."

· 180 AD Theophilus of Antioch, "... And of the Ark, the remains are to this day to be seen in the Arabian mountains. ..."

· 315? - 403 AD – Epiphanius report that remains of the Ark are on a mountain in the Gordian mountains.

· 349 - 407 AD Chrysostom mentions remains of Noah's Ark

· 4th Century AD – Faustus of Byzantium reports the experiences of a bishop who traveled to the region of "Gortouk" to see the ark.

· AD 425 church historian Philostorgius’s account (in Book 3 as epitomized by Photius)

· 560 - 636 AD Isidore of Seville mentions remains of Noah's Ark

· 620 AD - According to Hussein El Macin of Baghdad, Roman Emperor Heraclius visits the remains of the Ark after conquering the Persian city of Themanin.

· 1254 AD - Haithon refers to Mt. Ararat as the resting place of Noah's Ark.

· 1255 AD - Guillaume of Ruysbroeck tells of the devout Jacob of Medzpin's adventure on Ararat and his answered prayer to see the Ark.

· 13th Century AD - Marco Polo mentions in his book The Travels of Marco Polo the Ark was still resting on the summit of Mt. Ararat.

· 1647 AD - Adam Olearius' Voyage and Travels of the Ambassadors relates Armenian and Persian stories of the petrified Ark.

· 1820 (?) AD - Explorer Claudius James Rich writes that one Aga Hussein has seen the remains of the Ark.

· 1829 AD - Dr. Friedrich Parrot makes the first modern ascent of Greater Ararat. He visits the ancient St. James Monastery ( also known as St. Jacob Monastery ), that was destroyed in the 1840 eruption of Mt. Ararat.

· 1854 AD - Haji Yearam and his father lead three British scientists up Ararat to the Ark remains.

· 1878 AD - Viscount James Bryce climbs Ararat as recounted in his book Transcaucasia and Ararat. He finds old hand-tooled timber on this treeless mountain.

· 1883 AD - Turkish Commisioners investigate severe Ararat avalanches and report seeing the preserved but battered Ark structure. Locals claimed the remains were visible for six years. ( Nieuwe Rotterdamsche Courant, July 28, 1883 ) ( Chicago Tribune, August 10, 1883 ) ( New York Herald, August 10, 1883 ).. ( New York World, August 13, 1883 ).( New York Times, August 15, 1883 ).( The Watchtower, September 1883 )..Considered the most complete and accurate account appeared in the British Prophetic Messenger in the summer of 1883. ( Click on Turkish Commisioners for the full story )

· 1887 AD - John Joseph, Prince of Nouri, Archbishop and Grand Apostolic Ambassador of Malabar, India and Persia, makes three attempts to climb Ararat. He claims a sighting near the saddle between the peaks. Suggest the Ark be sent to the Chicago World's fair.

· 1900-1908 AD - George Hagopian climbs Ararat with his uncle and reports seeing and climbs onto the preserved Ark. At only ten years succeeded with simple attire of shepherd in reaching well twice with his uncle the ark. Look photo and sketches

· 1916 - 1917 AD - Czar Nicholas II sends an expedition of 150 men to map Ararat and document Ark. After report by Roskovitski (Zabolotsky) pilot of the Russian imperial aviation. Revolution erupts and evidence disappears. Look entire Russian expedition

· 1936 AD - New Zealander Hardwidke Knight finds very old hand tooled timbers high on Ararat.

· 1942 AD - American soldier Ray Lubeck views Ark in a 30 - 120 second film clip on Midway Island in 1942.

· 1943 AD - American soldier Ed Davis glimpses huge broken Ark sections in Ahora Gorge.

· 1944 AD - American soldier Vince Will views Ark from plane on Mt. Ararat

· 1945 AD - American soldier aka - Caleb views Ark from plane on Mt. Ararat

· 1946 AD - American soldier Charlie McCallen views Ark in a 30 - 60 second news reel in a movie theater in Jackson Tennessee.

· 1948 AD - Farmer Shakru Arsent tells newspaper of farmer named Re**** seeing petrified remains of a ship-like structure high on Ararat.

. 1952 1953 AD George Jefferson Greene technical oil American saw a big emergent bow from the ice to northeast, a similar ship construction situated in a gorge near a precipice

· 1953 - 1955 AD - William Todd was a photographer's in Turkey who claims to have seen Noah's Ark many times while flying over Mt. Ararat.

.1955 AD Fernand Navarra French industrialist: he saw under the ice an dark mass alike to keel of a ship. In the '55 and in the '69 of it put out some wood pieces, that it brought to to analyze in the four laboratories of world fame: to Cairo, Madrid, Paris and to Bordeaux. The tests on the degree of fossilization, on the cellular modification etc, they showed that the champion went up again really to the epoch of the Deluge, that is 4500 years ago around. Look Navara documentation

· 1956 - 1957 AD - Herb Knee views Ark in a 60 - 120 second news reel in a movie theater in Winchester Tennessee. [ Herb's Drawings of what he saw. ]

. 1959- 1960 AD Gregor Schwinghammer Captain U.S.A. Air Force Pilot saw a great barge in a gully in the ice Look Gregor interview (WMP format)

· 1964 AD - Retired Air Force Master Sergeant claims to see wood structure on Mt. Ararat.

· 1968 AD - David Duckworth claims as a Smithsonian volunteer he saw ark artifacts from Mt. Ararat.

.1969 Fernand Navarra already quoted in 1955 with the named expedition "Search" was extract some wood pieces from the Parrot glacier on Mt Ararat

· 1969 -1970 AD - Lt. Col. Walter D. Hunter was shown photos of what allegedly was Noah's Ark.

. 1974 Ed Behling, quoted already, veteran USAF, said that he passed "above and under some rocks, he stuck out from a ledge and he saw the ark 50 feet under " Also him saw it from higher position.

. 1985 AD U.S. Air Force General Ralph Havens confirm about a structure on Ararat: We've seen it. We have photos of it -

. 1989 AD Angelo Palego chemical engineer claim to see the Ark front just under strange parallel crevasses

· 1992 - 1993 AD - Rolando Reyna watched a Saturday night newscast which showed film footage of Noah's Ark on Ararat on a Mexican City Broadcast.

. 2002 Cludio Schranz alpine guide of Mt. Rosa filmed a wooden beam emergent from the Parrot glacier on Mt. Ararat

Some 'recent' eyewitnesses:
- Eyewitnesses

As for the 'counter' ideologies, which are prevalent in the world, it has several unsustainable issues.
- Spike Psarris (ex-Nasa, ex-Atheist) Galaxies & Stars - Spike Psarris Videos : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
- Debunking the Big Bang (Youtube) -

- Debunking the Big Bang (Internet Archive edition) - https://archive.org/details/creationspikepsarrisdebunkingthebigbang
- Science or Story Telling? (especially this one) -

- Robert V. Gentry (Ph.D. Physicist) - Robert V Gentry - Creation Video Materials : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
- Published Papers of Dr. Robert V. Gentry
- [Home] Evidence for Earth's Instant Creation - Polonium Halos in Granite and Coal - ESA
- Orion Foundation: Ten Censored Papers

- Dr. Don Patton - Don Patton - Creation Vs Evolution Model Videos : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

- Dr. Grady McMurtry - Dr. Grady McMurtry - Creation Vs Evolution : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

- Dr. Walter J. Veith - Amazing Discoveries With Walter J Veith : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

- Ian Juby - https://archive.org/details/complete-creation-part-03-3rd-edition-lyells-time-at-niagara

- Dr. Thomas Kindell - https://archive.org/details/nye-vs-ham-dr.-thomas-kindell

- John MacKay - https://archive.org/details/ryder-mac-kay-debate_202304

- Creation (General) - https://archive.org/details/@its_adventageous?query=creation

FredVB · 2026-06-14T07:04:56-0500

FredVB said:
We are in a biological family with greater apes, the way the biological family is defined recently, but having enough in common with them does not mean that we share any biological ancestors rather than having the Creator who designed us in common. The Bible isn't disproven, all creatures have design from the Creator they have in common being shown in the Bible. The earth itself may be millions of years old, more or less, but the Bible shows that all life on it is descended from the creatures, including the humans, in the six days of God's creation shown at its beginning. So what older earth there would have been, from what the Bible shows, must have been with it being the formless earth that there was before the six days of creation from which all life is descended. And the seventh day then was the first Sabbath.

I have no reason to think the Bible account is wrong at all with the earth being so old, from when God made it and anything to start with, but it was not with life on it then, and remained formless, without the design God provided on this chosen planet, until the six days in the creation week, with life made with all life in this world after that descending from that. And the first Sabbath came in that seventh day with all other days of the Sabbath, every seventh day, for our rest, based on that.

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Adam, Eve, and Evolution

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Blueprints

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