Noahs Flood

The earth at the time of Noah was a single piece of circular land and as The Bible states only the earth was flooded. Plus earth in The Bible means land/ground and not the lie of a spherical earth floating out in space.

Here is a very crude illustration of The Biblical flood in Genesis.

I simply think that 1) we don't need to assume that we know all sort of natually diasters ever happened in the past. For example, we haven't actually witnessed the magnetic polar switch though side evidence told us that it happened every 25 million years. It says that there could be other types of disasters remaining unknown to us. "Flood" is a description from an ancient human (Noah) viewed from a single spot. It by no means says it's a kind of disasters already made known to us. Actually humans never watched any single instance of a flood which can cover the mountains. So possibly the "Flood" may not be the flood that we have assumed.

2) biblical genealogies serve the purpose of showing human accounts of testimony on that Jesus is the descendent of David and Adam. It's not for year calculation by any means.

Dublin.Rules.89 said:

By the chronological evidence in the bible the flood happend 4400 years ago give or take a 100 years...the closest number I have found is 4,374 but again give or take a hundred years.

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As for the age of the earth, and when the flood was, see - Age Of The Earth : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

As for what Christians have believed about the age of the earth, for the last several thousand years, feel free to Download the following - https://archive.org/download/the-redemption-of-the-creation-7000-years-and-the-everlasting-gospel_202301/7000 Year Plan Of The Everlasting Gospel.odt

See also a image here - The Redemption Of The Creation 7000 Years And The Everlasting Gospel Files : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Dublin.Rules.89 said:

Now acording to the bible the flood covered the entire earth and was 20 feet over the tallest mountain that would Everest or one of Himalayan mountians.

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According to the Bible the "whole earth" was covered with the Noachian deluge:



15 Cubits is about 22.15 ft, assuming a 1.5 (1.476) cubit measurement.

The mountain known as 'Everest' did not exist as it is now back then and neither did the Himalayan mts. Those arose after the flood and cataclysmic tectonic plate collisions. Consider this material, by Walt Brown and Bryan Nickel (it gets technical) -

Consider more flood geological evidences:

Ian Juby (MENSA) - Ian Juby - Wazooloo - Complete Creation 3rd Edition Complete : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive


Dr. Don Patton (just the first video; Noah's Ark located) - Don Patton - Creation Vs Evolution Model Videos : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Dr. Thomas Kindell - Dr. Thomas Kindell on Creation Vs Evolution : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Dr. Kurt Wise - Documentary -

Dublin.Rules.89 said:

Here is were the chronological evidence becomes a problem...Chinese civilization dates back over 8000 years and there is no stop in it, that would have happened if the biblical flood happened.

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Incorrect. The actual Chinese history is not older than the flood (less than 5000 years). Certain histories are elongated by not understanding dual / tri reigns, kings under differing names, &c. The same goes for the Egyptian mess.

Consider the following materials, in that the Chinese language carries evidence of the Genesis history in it, and in ancient Chinese wedding rights:

- Creation God In Ancient China : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

- More - Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Texts, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine

- The discovery of Genesis - The Bible and the Chinese language : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

- https://i.pinimg.com/originals/26/db/9d/26db9deb6ee327ff5e2f76d29d6a1546.jpg

Dublin.Rules.89 said:

At the time of the flood the great pyramid of giza already existed and the flood

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Again, incorrect. The Egyptian historical record, is known to be extremely exaggerated by multiple means. You might also consider the following:

Patterns of Evidence by Tim Mahoney, et al. - Patterns Of Evidence Series - Tim Mahoney : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The Great Pyramid was not built by Khufu, as the singular inscription was likely inscribed by another.

Dublin.Rules.89 said:

, a flood of that maganatiude would have ripped the earth apart there would be know pyrimid, it would be destroyed. The oldest living on the planet is almost 5000 years old and the flood would have destroyed it.

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As for the "5000 years old" thing, are you referring to the several "trees", or to the Great Barrier reef, etc? Both, if being the suggestion, have dating issues, and major assumptions that cannot be demonstrated. As for the several trees, they are generally 'dated' by 'tree rings' counting, but that has issues, and several unproveable assumptions. Most tree rings are garnered through wet and dry, or hot and cold seasons, not years, and a tree can put on several rings in a single year, or nearly none at all. The Great Barrier reef is not older than the flood, and can only exist post-flood, and can only exist within a certain range of depth, requiring light, &c.

Dublin.Rules.89 said:

Now there is evidence of a massive flood in mesipitomia around that time, so geologically there was world flood 4300 years ago. So either the flood covered mesepitomia or the bibical chronological evidence is way off.

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There is massive evidence of a global flood all over the world. Just take the cretaceous, or chalk layer, which is seen from England down to Australia, in Texas, in China and Russia, &c. It is hundreds of feet thick in some places. Take the 'Dinosaur' National Monument, and other large boneyards, such as in Russia, and their disarticulation, as washed into place, with sediments, and other signs. Consider the poses of those which are articulated and found in situ in certain areas, in a death pose, gasping for air, necks thrown back, and crushed beneath great pressures. Consider the softbodied creatures, like worms, jellyfish, &c, which are preserved in a quick death and burial, some mid birth, some mid-meal. Consider the massive, thick, nearly pure black coal beds, and oil deposits and gas deposits, which are hundreds of feet thick in places, for miles. Consider the ocean itself, which is the visible flood waters still present, which mainly had come from the depths of the earth, which scientific articles even now showing that massive underground (subterranean) chambers are filled with slurry. The ring of fire itself, is left over evidence.

Dublin.Rules.89 said:

My pastor does not take everything in the bible litterally...he also encourages us to question and search for our own answers. Outside of church he is a teacher so he teaches the bible much the same way he does with his students.

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Your pastor might want to consider those evidences I provided, and I have literally, terrabytes more.

- Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Texts, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine

Dublin.Rules.89 said:

Anyways I am curious about other peoples oppinion on this subject.

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My opinion doesn't mean much, but God's word is true from the beginning:


Read Gen. 1-9, slowly. There is no way it does not relate a global flood, for numerous reasons, which if you desire I can go into detail.

Historical sightings of Noah's Ark - Testimonies list

· 275 BC – Berossus reporting on the history of Babylonia, claims that pilgrims went up a mountain in Armenia to carve amulets from the petrified pitch that covers the Ark (Berossus quoted by Abydenus (200 BC), Apollodorus (160 BC), Alexander Polyhistor (50 BC), Josephus (110 AD), Eusebius, (325 AD), Georgius Syncellus (800 AD)). - The Great Flood: Berossus - Livius

· 64 BC - 1st Century AD – Nicholas of Damascus (96th book) mentions remains of Noah's Ark, "... There is a great mountain in Armenia, over Minyas, called Baris, upon which it is reported that many who fled at the time of the Deluge were saved and that one who was carried in an ark came on shore upon the top of it; and that the remains of the timber were a great while preserved. ..."

· 50 AD – Josephus mentions remains of Noah's Ark 3 times, "... The Armenians call that spot the Landing-Place, for it was there that the Ark came safe to land and they show relics of it to this day. ...", "... This flood and the Ark are mentioned by all who have written histories of the barbarians. These matters are also mentioned by Hieronymus the Egyptian, author of the ancient history of Phoenicia, by Mnaseas and by many others and they are still shown to such as are desirous to see them. ..."

· 180 AD Theophilus of Antioch, "... And of the Ark, the remains are to this day to be seen in the Arabian mountains. ..."

· 315? - 403 AD – Epiphanius report that remains of the Ark are on a mountain in the Gordian mountains.

· 349 - 407 AD Chrysostom mentions remains of Noah's Ark

· 4th Century AD – Faustus of Byzantium reports the experiences of a bishop who traveled to the region of "Gortouk" to see the ark.

· AD 425 church historian Philostorgius’s account (in Book 3 as epitomized by Photius)

· 560 - 636 AD Isidore of Seville mentions remains of Noah's Ark

· 620 AD - According to Hussein El Macin of Baghdad, Roman Emperor Heraclius visits the remains of the Ark after conquering the Persian city of Themanin.

· 1254 AD - Haithon refers to Mt. Ararat as the resting place of Noah's Ark.

· 1255 AD - Guillaume of Ruysbroeck tells of the devout Jacob of Medzpin's adventure on Ararat and his answered prayer to see the Ark.

· 13th Century AD - Marco Polo mentions in his book The Travels of Marco Polo the Ark was still resting on the summit of Mt. Ararat.

· 1647 AD - Adam Olearius' Voyage and Travels of the Ambassadors relates Armenian and Persian stories of the petrified Ark.

· 1820 (?) AD - Explorer Claudius James Rich writes that one Aga Hussein has seen the remains of the Ark.

· 1829 AD - Dr. Friedrich Parrot makes the first modern ascent of Greater Ararat. He visits the ancient St. James Monastery ( also known as St. Jacob Monastery ), that was destroyed in the 1840 eruption of Mt. Ararat.

· 1854 AD - Haji Yearam and his father lead three British scientists up Ararat to the Ark remains.

· 1878 AD - Viscount James Bryce climbs Ararat as recounted in his book Transcaucasia and Ararat. He finds old hand-tooled timber on this treeless mountain.

· 1883 AD - Turkish Commisioners investigate severe Ararat avalanches and report seeing the preserved but battered Ark structure. Locals claimed the remains were visible for six years. ( Nieuwe Rotterdamsche Courant, July 28, 1883 ) ( Chicago Tribune, August 10, 1883 ) ( New York Herald, August 10, 1883 ).. ( New York World, August 13, 1883 ).( New York Times, August 15, 1883 ).( The Watchtower, September 1883 )..Considered the most complete and accurate account appeared in the British Prophetic Messenger in the summer of 1883. ( Click on Turkish Commisioners for the full story )

· 1887 AD - John Joseph, Prince of Nouri, Archbishop and Grand Apostolic Ambassador of Malabar, India and Persia, makes three attempts to climb Ararat. He claims a sighting near the saddle between the peaks. Suggest the Ark be sent to the Chicago World's fair.

· 1900-1908 AD - George Hagopian climbs Ararat with his uncle and reports seeing and climbs onto the preserved Ark. At only ten years succeeded with simple attire of shepherd in reaching well twice with his uncle the ark. Look photo and sketches

· 1916 - 1917 AD - Czar Nicholas II sends an expedition of 150 men to map Ararat and document Ark. After report by Roskovitski (Zabolotsky) pilot of the Russian imperial aviation. Revolution erupts and evidence disappears. Look entire Russian expedition

· 1936 AD - New Zealander Hardwidke Knight finds very old hand tooled timbers high on Ararat.

· 1942 AD - American soldier Ray Lubeck views Ark in a 30 - 120 second film clip on Midway Island in 1942.

· 1943 AD - American soldier Ed Davis glimpses huge broken Ark sections in Ahora Gorge.

· 1944 AD - American soldier Vince Will views Ark from plane on Mt. Ararat

· 1945 AD - American soldier aka - Caleb views Ark from plane on Mt. Ararat

· 1946 AD - American soldier Charlie McCallen views Ark in a 30 - 60 second news reel in a movie theater in Jackson Tennessee.

· 1948 AD - Farmer Shakru Arsent tells newspaper of farmer named Re**** seeing petrified remains of a ship-like structure high on Ararat.

. 1952 1953 AD George Jefferson Greene technical oil American saw a big emergent bow from the ice to northeast, a similar ship construction situated in a gorge near a precipice

· 1953 - 1955 AD - William Todd was a photographer's in Turkey who claims to have seen Noah's Ark many times while flying over Mt. Ararat.

.1955 AD Fernand Navarra French industrialist: he saw under the ice an dark mass alike to keel of a ship. In the '55 and in the '69 of it put out some wood pieces, that it brought to to analyze in the four laboratories of world fame: to Cairo, Madrid, Paris and to Bordeaux. The tests on the degree of fossilization, on the cellular modification etc,they showed that the champion went up again really to the epoch of the Deluge, that is 4500 years ago around. Look Navara documentation

· 1956 - 1957 AD - Herb Knee views Ark in a 60 - 120 second news reel in a movie theater in Winchester Tennessee. [ Herb's Drawings of what he saw. ]

. 1959- 1960 AD Gregor Schwinghammer Captain U.S.A. Air Force Pilot saw a great barge in a gully in the ice Look Gregor interview (WMP format)

· 1964 AD - Retired Air Force Master Sergeant claims to see wood structure on Mt. Ararat.

· 1968 AD - David Duckworth claims as a Smithsonian volunteer he saw ark artifacts from Mt. Ararat.

.1969 Fernand Navarra already quoted in 1955 with the named expedition "Search" was extract some wood pieces from the Parrot glacier on Mt Ararat

· 1969 -1970 AD - Lt. Col. Walter D. Hunter was shown photos of what allegedly was Noah's Ark.

. 1974 Ed Behling, quoted already, veteran USAF, said that he passed "above and under some rocks, he stuck out from a ledge and he saw the ark 50 feet under " Also him saw it from higher position.

. 1985 AD U.S. Air Force General Ralph Havens confirm about a structure on Ararat: We've seen it. We have photos of it -

. 1989 AD Angelo Palego chemical engineer claim to see the Ark front just under strange parallel crevasses

· 1992 - 1993 AD - Rolando Reyna watched a Saturday night newscast which showed film footage of Noah's Ark on Ararat on a Mexican City Broadcast.

. 2002 Cludio Schranz alpine guide of Mt. Rosa filmed a wooden beam emergent from the Parrot glacier on Mt. Ararat

Some 'recent' eyewitnesses:

Eyewitnesses

Dublin.Rules.89 said:

Okay I mean no disrespect but, anytime I noticed Christians who wanted to disagree with scientific evidence, they will post a response that would take 30 minutes to read if you wanted to take the time to read it. I'm not taking the time to read it all, I'm not going to try and have a discussion with you because your post is designed to overwhelm any response. So you have a nice day since you obviously don't want to have a discussion

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That is your prerogative, but the response was to have discussion about the plethora of facts. It seems you do not desire to talk and make the excuse to do so. That's up to you. I am still here.

Hello @Dublin.Rules.89, these recent, well-done documentaries may interest you (as I believe that what they have to say is worthy of consideration, at least).


Lastly, here's some information specific to the first documentary above.

The Cast (all Christians)

• Kevin Anderson, PhD – Microbiologist
• Steve Austin, PhD – Geologist
• Steven Boyd, PhD – Hebraist
• Robert Carter, PhD – Marine Biologist
• Arthur Chadwick, PhD – Taphonomist
• Danny Faulkner, PhD – Astronomer
• George Grant, PhD – Pastor
• Paul Nelson, PhD – Philosopher of Science
• Douglas Petrovich, PhD – Archeologist
• Marcus Ross, PhD – Paleontologist
• Andrew Snelling, PhD – Geologist
• Kurt Wise, PhD – Paleontologist
• Todd Wood, PhD – Biologist
• Stuart Burgess, PhD – Mechanical Engineer (Bonus Features)
• Douglas Kelly, PhD – Theologian (Bonus Features)
• Larry Vardiman, PhD – Atmospheric Physicist (Bonus Features)

The Topics Covered In The Film

• Paradigms
• Created Kinds
• Fossil Record
• DNA
• Transitional Forms
• Historic Views
• Evolution
• Ecosystems
• Global Flood
• Starlight
• Tower of Babel
• Big Bang
• Rock Layers
• Genealogies
• Isotope Dating
• Beauty
• Hebrew Text
• Dinosaurs
• Epochs of History
• Neanderthals
• Nautiloids
• Soft Tissue
• Coal Formation
• And much more…

Creation Ministries International (CMI) is a great resource on things pertaining to Noah's food.

Dublin.Rules.89 said:

By the chronological evidence in the bible the flood happend 4400 years ago give or take a 100 years...the closest number I have found is 4,374 but again give or take a hundred years. Now acording to the bible the flood covered the entire earth and was 20 feet over the tallest mountain that would Everest or one of Himalayan mountians.

Here is were the chronological evidence becomes a problem...Chinese civilization dates back over 8000 years and there is no stop in it, that would have happened if the biblical flood happened. At the time of the flood the great pyramid of giza already existed and the flood, a flood of that maganatiude would have ripped the earth apart there would be know pyrimid, it would be destroyed. The oldest living on the planet is almost 5000 years old and the flood would have destroyed it.

Now there is evidence of a massive flood in mesipitomia around that time, so geologically there was world flood 4300 years ago. So either the flood covered mesepitomia or the bibical chronological evidence is way off.

My pastor does not take everything in the bible litterally...he also encourages us to question and search for our own answers. Outside of church he is a teacher so he teaches the bible much the same way he does with his students.

Anyways I am curious about other peoples oppinion on this subject.

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The point of the flood story is theological, not historical. However there is an intense amount of evidence for the widespread middle eastern flood motif rooted in ancient history. Not a globe-covering flood, but a major flooding event that inspired the ancient near-eastern flood myth, which the Bible uses to teach something very important. It's important to remember that Genesis is one of the books of Torah, and thus is a book of instruction, and provides an important purpose in the story of God's redemptive work in the world that points to Jesus.

Dublin.Rules.89 said:

By the chronological evidence in the bible the flood happend 4400 years ago give or take a 100 years...the closest number I have found is 4,374 but again give or take a hundred years. Now acording to the bible the flood covered the entire earth and was 20 feet over the tallest mountain that would Everest or one of Himalayan mountians.

Here is were the chronological evidence becomes a problem...Chinese civilization dates back over 8000 years and there is no stop in it, that would have happened if the biblical flood happened. At the time of the flood the great pyramid of giza already existed and the flood, a flood of that maganatiude would have ripped the earth apart there would be know pyrimid, it would be destroyed. The oldest living on the planet is almost 5000 years old and the flood would have destroyed it.

Now there is evidence of a massive flood in mesipitomia around that time, so geologically there was world flood 4300 years ago. So either the flood covered mesepitomia or the bibical chronological evidence is way off.

My pastor does not take everything in the bible litterally...he also encourages us to question and search for our own answers. Outside of church he is a teacher so he teaches the bible much the same way he does with his students.

Anyways I am curious about other peoples oppinion on this subject.

Click to expand...

The flood narrative should be understood through the context of its ancient Israelite cosmological literary background. It's not a science textbook:

Dublin.Rules.89 said:

By the chronological evidence in the bible the flood happend 4400 years ago give or take a 100 years...the closest number I have found is 4,374 but again give or take a hundred years. Now acording to the bible the flood covered the entire earth and was 20 feet over the tallest mountain that would Everest or one of Himalayan mountians.

Here is were the chronological evidence becomes a problem...Chinese civilization dates back over 8000 years and there is no stop in it, that would have happened if the biblical flood happened. At the time of the flood the great pyramid of giza already existed and the flood, a flood of that maganatiude would have ripped the earth apart there would be know pyrimid, it would be destroyed. The oldest living on the planet is almost 5000 years old and the flood would have destroyed it.

Now there is evidence of a massive flood in mesipitomia around that time, so geologically there was world flood 4300 years ago. So either the flood covered mesepitomia or the bibical chronological evidence is way off.

My pastor does not take everything in the bible litterally...he also encourages us to question and search for our own answers. Outside of church he is a teacher so he teaches the bible much the same way he does with his students.

Anyways I am curious about other peoples oppinion on this subject.

Click to expand...

From what you're relating that your pastor said, I'm guessing that I might agree with him to whatever degree. My opinion is that biblical writing is not only ancient and foreign, but in addition to that, like all human writing, is representational in nature and not presenting exact, analogical language. There might have been some 'small' flood in or around the Mesopotamian region that later influenced the writing of hyperbolic accounts that made it sound like the waters flowed over mountains. The fact is, we just don't know and whatever archaeological evidences there are for either a big flood or for a large ark are scant and leave our conclusions underdetermined.

But that's ok because much of ancient history is underdetermined and we just have to work with the fragmentary remains that we have.