How does the idea that most of Gods creation he will have to burn forever bring glory to God?

Hentenza said:

But you did say that God created man to be burned which is an even more absurd concept.

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So are you saying that God doesn't know who is going to burn before He creates them? Then you're denying His omniscience. If not, and He creates them knowing they're going to burn forever, He has essentially creating them to burn. Not really any way to dodge that, is there?

Hentenza said:

But you did say that God created man to be burned which is an even more absurd concept. The fact of the matter is that you don’t know how many people will not be saved.

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Ulnless you abandon the central belief of That Old Time Religion, that burning forever is the default end for every human being who ever lived or ever will, and that only the relative few who are saved from that fate will not be burned forever. "Ye shall not surely die.", right? Whether we humans know who will be saved from eternal life in fiery torment and who wont is altogether irrelevant.

Hentenza said:

I call your argument theological drama.

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And I call your "eternal life in torment" doctrine utterly illogical and scripturally unsupportable. I think I'll name that the "Arrant Rubbish" fallacy. <Laugh>

Jipsah said:

So are you saying that God doesn't know who is going to burn before He creates them? Then you're denying His omniscience. If not, and He creates them knowing they're going to burn forever, He has essentially creating them to burn. Not really any way to dodge that, is there?

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lol The either/or fallacy applied to an infinite being. I guess you know exactly how God works. There are mysteries that even you can’t explain.

Jeff Saunders said:

The only difference is does God decide who " gets in and who doesn't " or does man decide and mans will is stronger than Gods will, but the outcome is still the same.

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God isn't doing all this for Himself, but for us. We are the captains of our own fate. The choice was/is clear; this world or His Kingdom.

Jeff Saunders said:

If God is doing this not for himself how is for mans benefit for God to create a man that God knows he will have to burn him forever for not understanding who the true God is and his love nature and love character .
Is it possible that the Father wanted or desired or maybe even willed that all his humanity will learn to love him through our experience in the mortal flesh, and if that was not what we would choose, he has set a time of refinement in the next age and in the end he will get what he wants, a creation that he can be in fellowship with out of free will, God has all eternity to get his will done and no man can resist his love forever, no mans will is stronger than the Fathers.

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It would be nice but not only do some pigheadedly hang onto the ways of the world man has made in our own image, but would also rather side with the rebellious elohim who will not change. It is hard to undo the damage the world teaches us since birth. It would be better to follow the will of God and live in ways that would not ruin these folks to start with. A good start would be going back to teaching responsibility over rights.

Jeff Saunders said:

but the outcome is still the same

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The bottom line is He doesn't need us at all.

Jeff Saunders said:

es God is of need of nothing, but his love for us by including us in himself through Jesus is what we needed .

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But most will still refuse to give up their self-perceived autonomy. That may be feasible in this world but not in the next creation, the Kingdom

Jeff Saunders said:

Gods will to have every knee bow and every tongue gladly confess that Jesus is Lord.

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So why don't they now?

Jeff Saunders said:

Yes most will not see Jesus for who he truly is until the next age, but once they see him all will bend the knee and gladly confess that Jesus is Lord.
There is not one human that can outstand or outlast the love of the Father, too many put to much faith in mans will and not enough in Gods will to have every knee bow and every tongue gladly confess that Jesus is Lord.

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“Then He *said to Thomas, “Place your finger here, and see My hands; and take your hand and put it into My side; and do not continue in disbelief, but be a believer.” Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you now believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.””
‭‭John‬ ‭20‬:‭27‬-‭29‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

There is no salvation after death. There is absolutely no teaching in the Bible that even hints at that.

Jeff Saunders said:

Let me tell you about a girl I used to work with.

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I agree with you that some churches have turned a lot of people against God, when in fact the people should have turned against the churches for not properly representing God. Of course a 13 year old would probably blame God rather than take responsibility for what got her shunned in the first place. People are quick to blame God when in fact it is our rebellious ways that keep causing all the problems in this world. G0d said you want it that way then learn the hard way by your mistakes. He is always there to help us past our arrogance and selfishness. The thing is that if that church had properly taught the ways of the Kingdom rather than the ways of mankind she might have found the help she needed. We were told to follow two commandments, thus acting in servitude to God and to each other, for a reason.

Jeff Saunders said:

but most of the western church doesn't know the gospel,

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Yes His only gospel... the Gospel of the Kingdom where man would no longer oppress fellow man in any way shape or form as the Kingdom (both a place and a government) will no longer allow our original sin of self-interest to override others. The traditional self-serving ways of mankind will be no more, adversity to the will of God banished. No more teaming up with worldly powers.

Luke 4: 43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.

Jeff Saunders said:

While you talk about hints I will show you absolutely definitive declarations in Scripture.
Phil 2:10-11 every knee will bow and every tongue will gladly confess that Jesus is Lord- the Greek word for confess is Exomologeo- to acknowledge openly and joyfully, to celebrate, to give praise to without reservations.
If there is no salvation after the mortal body dies this Scripture can never be true, so do you think Scripture is just wishful thinking?

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And yet the devil’s knee will also bow and his tongue will confess Jesus but he will never be saved unless you think that the devil will be saved also.

Jeff Saunders said:

1 Tim 4:9-11 because we trust in the living God, who is the savior of ALL Men, especially of those who believe. again this is a declaration not a hopeful thing.

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Yep. Jesus died for the sins of all mankind but only those with faith are saved (John 3:16).

Jeff Saunders said:

John 4:42 Jesus is the Christ the savior of the cosmos. This is a declaration not a hopeful posability

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“Many more believed because of His word; and they were saying to the woman, “It is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves and know that this One truly is the Savior of the world.””
‭‭John‬ ‭4‬:‭41‬-‭42‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

You missed verse 41. No reason to believe now if all will be saved. And again, Jesus is indeed the savior of the world. Everyone has a chance. All they need is faith.

Jeff Saunders said:

2 Cor 5:19 In Christ God was reconciling the cosmos to himself, not counting peoples trespasses against them, and he has given us the message of reconciliation.

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Absolutely. You again ignore the previous verse. Do you know who “us” is that Paul is referring to? Did you notice that it is through Christ that “us” are reconciled? Need faith.

“Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5‬:‭18‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Jeff Saunders said:

1 Cor 15:21 As in Adam all died as in Jesus all will live.

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Yep. And then some choose not to live by lack of faith (John 3:18-19).

Jeff Saunders said:

1 Tim 2:3-6 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our savior, who will have ALL MEN to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth.

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Yep. The offer goes out to all but not all respond or accept.

Jeff Saunders said:

There are more but I think you will get the ideap

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Make sure that you read them in context and not in an island. We’ve been through each one before.

Jeff Saunders said:

If these Scripture are true, then the only way that is possible is for God to save people after their temporary mortal body has died, but they are still themselves, we are not our body, the Father doesn't save the body, he saves you not your body.
What changes in God that after someone is no longer in your mortal body that he does not love them, and pursue them till they be found, like the lost sheep, Jesus does not give up he paid too high a price to leave anyone behind, God does not do abandonment.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded that neither DEATH nor life nor angels nor Archons nor things present nor things imminent nor Powers, Nor height nor depth nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in the Anointed, Jesus our Lord.
I understand that the tradition you follow doesn't understand this but its in the Scriptures, we get the choice to metanoa and change our thinking to be in line with the Fathers thinking over tradition.

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Your assumptions and interpretations are wrong. You ignore every verse that teaches that faith is necessary for salvation and verse mine others.

“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2‬:‭8‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

The opposite of this verse is that without faith there is no grace and therefore no salvation.

You never addressed the verses I posted in my previous post. Let’s try again.

“Then He *said to Thomas, “Place your finger here, and see My hands; and take your hand and put it into My side; and do not continue in disbelief, but be a believer.” Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you now believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.””
‭‭John‬ ‭20‬:‭27‬-‭29‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Why are those with faith blessed? Why are those that only believed after seen Him not blessed?

Time and time again, I have heard from people about how they have become disillusioned as a result of their religious
upbringing. Especially as youth, when their senses were more attuned to hypocrisy and things that made no sense. They
often talk of a lot of leftover baggage that has clouded their opinion of Christianity to this day
The whole purpose of ANY religion is to indoctrinate you into their teachings. It usually comes along with the warning
that an open mind will only lead to confusion, questioning of faith (their dogma), and losing your way without their
guidance. Blind obedience is for your own good, we are told. Jesus wanted us to move beyond, not only
the secular, but also religion. He did. He was not a Christian. He was the Christ. He did not create a
religion but a way of spiritual life beyond what had been taught in the synagogues. A route to salvation away from the
ways of the world that had infiltrated the religion. A movement with ideals to make life here more palatable. Each
of us were to be His individual little churches built upon the rock of God's truths, not man's. We were to be, whether
separately or within a community, living with no leader but Him, seeking God, and sharing the spiritual and material
wealth