Question for rapture people

Spiritual Jew said:

So, if someone is willing to give their lives for Christ and they do all they can to serve Him, but they are not martyred, then they can't be part of His bride?

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This is a good question that I have wondered about too.
The wording in Revelation is that the martyrs are given white robes. But we do see in Rev 3:4 that some within the church of Sardis end up being given a whitext robe. So not all the church, only some.
So, it does look as though God does make some exceptions. But overall He does not give white robes to the entire church.

Spiritual Jew said:

This kind of division within the church is not taught in scripture.

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I can humbly accept that some may be greater than I in the Kingdom of God. That is not division, that is God choosing to honour whom He chooses. If God chooses to give one believer a more prominent place than another, then that is up to God. It would be arrogant and prideful to say that I deserve to be honoured the same as a martyr. I would love to serve God and those who are higher.

keras said:

The example of Lazarus applies to them. Why else did Jesus do it?
If you disagree, then use proper rebuttals and scriptures to prove your stance, instead of abusive and critical language

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Here is an interesting thing to think about with Lazurus having eternal life and the book of John.
Not all people believe that the disciple John was the author of the book of John. Going off the text, it could very well have been Lazarus.
We see in John 21:20-24 that the one Jesus loved the most wrote the book of John. We also see that Peter and the disciples wondered if the one Jesus loved the most would not die. So, they wondered if this person had eternal life.
Now, if we look within the text to see whom Jesus loved the most, we see in John 11:3 that Jesus loved Lazurus. Then in John 11:35 we see that Jesus loved him exceedingly. So much so that people where amazed.
So, with this understanding, Lazarus could have been the author and that since Lazarus had already been risen from the dead, that he may already have eternal life.

1Tonne said:

Ephesians 5 shows how much He loves the body of Christ. We have Christ in us and so therefore He will love us. So we are one already with Him. In a similar manner a husband will marry a wife and become one with her.
And if His bride (the martyrs) comes from the church, why would He not love us? He loves us so much that He gave His life for us. But again, nowhere in the text does it say that the whole church is the body of Christ.

Being part of the bride is a reward for thier righteous acts. They gave thier lives for the testimony of Christ.

Please read my previous posts as I should not have to repeat myself.
Everyone is raised on the last day. This includes the living, the dead, believer and non believer, and also the martyrs who reigned for 1000 years with Christ. Jesus said He would raise all people on the last day and they go to judgement.
In saying this, the Bible does not say what the martyrs are judged for although we know that death has no hold on them and so they have eternary life. So maybe they are rewarded for how they ruled on earth. Overall the bible does not say.

1 Thes 4:17 says that those left alive will be raised.

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Hi 1Tonne,

Israel is the wife (Isa. 54: 5 & 6) and the New Jerusalem is AS a bride, being the vehicle for the physical and spiritual to be connected. (Rev. 21: 2)

We the BODY of Christ are the NEW MAN, maturing to a PERFECT MAN, and we are to put on the NEW MAN. (Eph. 2: 15 4: 13 & 24)

There is NO male or female in the BODY we have both characteristics, (adventurous, nurturing etc).

Eph. 5: 22 - 32 is an exhortation for husbands to love their wives as their own body as Christ loves His body. We are members of His body and His bones. (Eph. 5: 30) And the correct pronoun is IT referring back to the BODY.

2 Cor. 11 is Paul talking to his disciples wanting them to be pure. He wants to present them to the Lord. However, for US the Lord present us to Himself. (Jude 24)

1Tonne said:

So, with this understanding, Lazarus could have been the author and that since Lazarus had already been risen from the dead, that he may already have eternal life.

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I don't buy this.
Lazarus simply died of old age. As Martha said - I know he will rise again, at the resurrection on the last day. John 11:24
Lazarus will just be one of all the people who have ever lived; standing before God, as the book of Life is opened. Revelation 20:11-15
His name will be found in that Book and then Eternal life will be his.

A rapture to heaven of the Church is the prevalent belief of the Western Christians today. This is very unfortunate as when it doesn’t happen, many may lose their faith.
The ‘rapture’ is a belief based on assumptions, inferences and pure guesswork:

The theory of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is not Biblical.
1/ Such an idea is not found in the Bible.
2/ Jesus refutes it five times; John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10
3/ Unprecedented, why should God remove His people today, when all up until today have been persecuted and martyred.
4/ The prophets have told us what will happen in the end times and how we must endure until the end.
5/ The ongoing dispute of pre, mid, post or anytime rapture, is evidence enough of there being no proper scripture about a 'rapture'.
6/ Jesus said that we Christians could be deceived. He was right!
7/ Peter said that Satan is prowling around looking who he can devour with his lies and Paul says that people will turn to fables and listen to 'nice' stories, turning away from sound teaching.

God has given us the information so we know His Plans for the end times, great Promises of protection and Blessings to His people as they stand firm in their faith, as they go thru all that must happen and welcome Jesus when He Returns.

keras said:

A rapture to heaven of the Church is the prevalent belief of the Western Christians today. This is very unfortunate as when it doesn’t happen, many may lose their faith.
The ‘rapture’ is a belief based on assumptions, inferences and pure guesswork:

The theory of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, is not Biblical.
1/ Such an idea is not found in the Bible.
2/ Jesus refutes it five times; John 3:13, John 7:34, John 8:21-23, John 17:15, Revelation 5:10
3/ Unprecedented, why should God remove His people today, when all up until today have been persecuted and martyred.
4/ The prophets have told us what will happen in the end times and how we must endure until the end.
5/ The ongoing dispute of pre, mid, post or anytime rapture, is evidence enough of there being no proper scripture about a 'rapture'.
6/ Jesus said that we Christians could be deceived. He was right!
7/ Peter said that Satan is prowling around looking who he can devour with his lies and Paul says that people will turn to fables and listen to 'nice' stories, turning away from sound teaching.

God has given us the information so we know His Plans for the end times, great Promises of protection and Blessings to His people as they stand firm in their faith, as they go thru all that must happen and welcome Jesus when He Returns.

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Since you don't believe in the rapture to heaven, you will not be taken.

Marilyn C said:

Israel is the wife (Isa. 54: 5 & 6)

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I agree. In Rev 7 it talks about the 144,000 martyrs. They are from the 12 tribes of Israel. They are called the great multitude and we see that they are made up of people from all over the world and that they speak different languages, even though they are Jewish. And we see this today in Israel that many have returned from all over the world and that they now have many dialects there in Isreal.
So, the 144,000 in white robes are Jewish.

Note: Notice in Rev 20:4 that judges are given authority to judge the martyrs. Now, we know that Jesus judges the world so the question is, who are these whom judgement has been committed to? I believe that they whom judgement has been committed to, is the disciples. In Mat 19:28 Jesus gave the disciples authority to be the judges of Israel. So, if the disciples judge Israel and the martyrs are Jewish, then the who have been committed judgement must be the disciples.

Douggg said:

Since you don't believe in the rapture to heaven, you will not be taken.

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You believe in an early rapture but sadly, you too will not be taken....since there is no early rapture for all believers.

1Tonne said:

You believe in an early rapture but sadly, you too will not be taken....since there is no early rapture for all believers.

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You and keras are believers in Christ for your salvation. But since both of you speak against the rapture taking place before the great tribulation begins, neither of you will be taken. The rapture is the escaping Jesus spoke of in Luke 21:36.

Luke 21:
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

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You are supposed to be watching for Jesus to come for the rapture.

keras said:

The Revised English Bible says- they came to life again.....

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That doesn't say they came to mortal life again. That is something you are reading into the text.

keras said:

The GT martyrs will not become spiritual, immortal beings until after the Millennium.

The example of Lazarus applies to them.

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No, it does not. It never says any such thing. Your beliefs on based only on assumptions and not on any clear scriptures.

keras said:

Why else did Jesus do it?
If you disagree, then use proper rebuttals and scriptures to prove your stance, instead of abusive and critical language.

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I have used proper rebuttals and scriptures to prove my stance to you MANY times. Why do you pretend otherwise? I've told you many times how I interpret 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 to be saying that all of the dead in Christ will be resurrected at the same time, with the context being in relation to being resurrected unto bodily immortality.

Jesus indicated that all of the dead will be resurrected at the same hour/time.

John 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

Jesus indicated that believers will be resurrected unto life. Not mortal life, but eternal life with immortal bodies. Jesus Himself taught that believers will inherit eternal life when He returns (Matthew 25:31-46). And He indicated that unbelievers will be resurrected unto condemnation, which we can safely assume is eternal condemnation because He indicated that unbelievers will be cast into "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" when He returns (Matthew 25:41). So, neither Paul nor Jesus gave any indication whatsoever that anyone will be resurrected unto mortal life in the future.

keras said:

I do realize that because of your AMill belief, you have to have only one resurrection and one fire punishment/ destruction of the planet.

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That is what scripture teaches, so that's why I'm Amill. I don't believe that because of the Amill doctrine itself.

keras said:

So, seeing as neither you nor I are going to change on the timing of the Millennium, it is useless to continue this argument.

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Now, there's something we can agree on. It's just too bad that you can't be more honest with what is indicated in passages like 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 and John 5:28-29. I use clear, straightforward passages like those to help interpret more difficult passages found in highly symbolic books like Revelation. I believe that is the best approach to interpreting Revelation 20.

Douggg said:

You and keras are believers in Christ for your salvation. But since both of you speak against the rapture taking place before the great tribulation begins, neither of you will be taken.

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This is utter nonsense of epic proportions. NOWHERE does scripture teach that any believers will not be caught up when the rapture occurs. All believers will be caught up when the rapture occurs regardless of their end times beliefs. You are just making things up. Why? Do you have no shame?

Douggg said:

The rapture is the escaping Jesus spoke of in Luke 21:36.

Luke 21:
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

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The way to be worthy to escape is to belong to Christ and be in the spiritual light instead of being in spiritual darkness. All believers, regardless of their end times beliefs, are in the spiritual light and not the darkness.

1 Thessalonians 5:2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief.

Notice that Paul indicates that those who are in spiritual darkness are the ones who will not escape. It's absolutely unacceptable for you to include any true Christians as being among those who will not escape just because they disagree with your false beliefs.

Douggg said:

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You are supposed to be watching for Jesus to come for the rapture.

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What do you mean by that exactly? Are you talking about looking up in the sky and watching for Him to come? If so, that's not what He was saying. He wants us to watch in terms of looking at our spiritual status "lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.". Jesus wants us to watch that we are not deceived, not watch up in the sky while waiting for Him to come.

Matthew 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” 4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many.

The way we are to watch is by watching out that no one deceives us and by doing the things Jesus wants us to do while we wait for Him to come.

Matthew 24:42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him. 45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions.

1Tonne said:

This is a good question that I have wondered about too.
The wording in Revelation is that the martyrs are given white robes. But we do see in Rev 3:4 that some within the church of Sardis end up being given a whitext robe. So not all the church, only some.

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That's your assumption. It never explicitly states that only martyrs and some other exceptions are given white robes. As for those in the church of Sardis being given white robes, look at what Jesus says there.

Revelation 3: 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Jesus indicates that those who overcome shall be clothed in white garments. Who are those who overcome? All of those who believe and are born of God. All believers, in other words.

1 John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Tonne said:

So, it does look as though God does make some exceptions. But overall He does not give white robes to the entire church.

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Show me where that is stated. Of course, it isn't. That is only your assumption. Tell me why that would be the case, keeping in mind that we are all one in Christ Jesus. No one is better than anyone else in the church. Any true Christian is willing to die for Christ, if necessary, so why would any true Christian not be given a white robe just because the circumstance didn't come up in their lives where they were martyred for their faith, even though if the right circumstance occurred, they would have been willing to die for Christ?

1Tonne said:

I can humbly accept that some may be greater than I in the Kingdom of God. That is not division, that is God choosing to honour whom He chooses.

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We are all one in Christ Jesus. While some may receive greater rewards than others, we will all receive them at the same time. I'm talking about dividing the church into separate groups who are resurrected and rewarded at different times. Why would God do that? Passages like Matthew 13:40-43, Matthew 13:47-50 and Matthew 25:31-46 have all believers appearing before Jesus and being rewarded with eternal life in the kingdom prepared from the foundation of the world at the same time.

1Tonne said:

If God chooses to give one believer a more prominent place than another, then that is up to God. It would be arrogant and prideful to say that I deserve to be honoured the same as a martyr. I would love to serve God and those who are higher.

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Do you think anyone can be a Christian and not be willing to die for Christ, if necessary? I don't. So, if God knows that you would become a martyr if the right circumstance came about, why would He differentiate between someone actually being martyred and someone who would be willing to be martyred if they were put in that situation?

1Tonne said:

Here is an interesting thing to think about with Lazurus having eternal life and the book of John.
Not all people believe that the disciple John was the author of the book of John. Going off the text, it could very well have been Lazarus.
We see in John 21:20-24 that the one Jesus loved the most wrote the book of John. We also see that Peter and the disciples wondered if the one Jesus loved the most would not die. So, they wondered if this person had eternal life.
Now, if we look within the text to see whom Jesus loved the most, we see in John 11:3 that Jesus loved Lazurus. Then in John 11:35 we see that Jesus loved him exceedingly. So much so that people where amazed.
So, with this understanding, Lazarus could have been the author and that since Lazarus had already been risen from the dead, that he may already have eternal life.

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I'm not sure what this has to do with what we've been talking about, but it's not possible that Lazarus was resurrected unto bodily immortality because Paul indicated that Jesus was the first to be resurrected unto bodily immortality in 1 Corinthians 15:20,22. Also, in Acts 26:23 Paul said that Christ was the first to be resurrected from the dead. Obviously, Lazarus was resurrected before Christ was, so the context is in relation to Christ being the first to be resurrected unto bodily immortality. Lazarus will be resurrected unto bodily immortality at the same time the rest of the dead in Christ are, which will be when Jesus comes at the last trumpet (1 Cor 15:22-23; 50-54).

Douggg said:

The rapture is the escaping Jesus spoke of in Luke 21:36.

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Luke 21:34-36 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. KJV
So do you believe this prophecy proves a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church?
If so you are very deceived.

What does verse 35 say? The Day of Wrath will come upon everyone.
Verse 34 says we must be careful, or that Day will catch us unawares. Therefore; if we do carefully study and are aware of the signs, we can know that Day, or at least the season.
But, either way, that Day will come and we will be here to experience it.

Verse 36 says 'escape all these things'. This cannot mean a removal away from, as that is a direct contradiction of the previous 2 verses.
What it does mean, is told to us in many prophesies, of the Lord's protection during that terrible Day. Isaiah 43:2, Psalms 23 & 91, Isaiah 30:26b, +

The Revised English Bible translates Luke 21:36 correctly: ….worthy to pass safely through all these things…

Spiritual Jew said:

All believers will be caught up when the rapture occurs regardless of their end times beliefs.

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What text says that ?

Spiritual Jew said:

The way we are to watch is by watching out that no one deceives us

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Then why are you an Amillennialist ? Belief that there will not be the 1000 year millennium in Revelation 20 following Jesus's return is deception.

Douggg said:

You and keras are believers in Christ for your salvation. But since both of you speak against the rapture taking place before the great tribulation begins, neither of you will be taken. The rapture is the escaping Jesus spoke of in Luke 21:36.

Luke 21:
34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.

35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

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You are supposed to be watching for Jesus to come for the rapture.

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Oh no. Not me too

Marilyn C said:

Hi 1Tonne,

Israel is the wife (Isa. 54: 5 & 6) and the New Jerusalem is AS a bride, being the vehicle for the physical and spiritual to be connected. (Rev. 21: 2)

We the BODY of Christ are the NEW MAN, maturing to a PERFECT MAN, and we are to put on the NEW MAN. (Eph. 2: 15 4: 13 & 24)

There is NO male or female in the BODY we have both characteristics, (adventurous, nurturing etc).

Eph. 5: 22 - 32 is an exhortation for husbands to love their wives as their own body as Christ loves His body. We are members of His body and His bones. (Eph. 5: 30) And the correct pronoun is IT referring back to the BODY.

2 Cor. 11 is Paul talking to his disciples wanting them to be pure. He wants to present them to the Lord. However, for US the Lord present us to Himself. (Jude 24)

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Hi Marily. C.

And I have yet to. see that OUR APOSTLE TO. THE GENTILES does not say that the Body of Christ is a BRIDE

as 1 COR 12:13 that we BAPTIZED // PLACED into one body. !!

dan p

1Tonne said:

This is a good question that I have wondered about too.
The wording in Revelation is that the martyrs are given white robes. But we do see in Rev 3:4 that some within the church of Sardis end up being given a whitext robe. So not all the church, only some.
So, it does look as though God does make some exceptions. But overall He does not give white robes to the entire church.

I can humbly accept that some may be greater than I in the Kingdom of God. That is not division, that is God choosing to honour whom He chooses. If God chooses to give one believer a more prominent place than another, then that is up to God. It would be arrogant and prideful to say that I deserve to be honoured the same as a martyr. I would love to serve God and those who are higher.



Here is an interesting thing to think about with Lazurus having eternal life and the book of John.
Not all people believe that the disciple John was the author of the book of John. Going off the text, it could very well have been Lazarus.
We see in John 21:20-24 that the one Jesus loved the most wrote the book of John. We also see that Peter and the disciples wondered if the one Jesus loved the most would not die. So, they wondered if this person had eternal life.
Now, if we look within the text to see whom Jesus loved the most, we see in John 11:3 that Jesus loved Lazurus. Then in John 11:35 we see that Jesus loved him exceedingly. So much so that people where amazed.
So, with this understanding, Lazarus could have been the author and that since Lazarus had already been risen from the dead, that he may already have eternal life.

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For ONE there is no greek word RAPTURE in. the Greek text !!

And in 2 Thess 2:1 the word COMING //. PAROUSIA OF OUR Lord Jesus Christ. , even. our gathering together. into HIM. !!

And in. verse 3. except. the DEPARTURE. //. APOSTASTA. should come FIRST. and the man of SIN should be revealed

the son. of DESTRUCTION.

And in. verse 4. the TEMPLE. was already built. and read verse 4-12 !!

And Gal 1:4 PAUL USES THE. WORDV RESCUE. //. EXAIREO. to pluck OUT those saved by GRACE !!



dan p

Douggg said:

What text says that ?

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1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 does. It talks about the dead in Christ and the living in Christ all being caught up to meet Christ in the air when He comes. What text says that any true Christians will not be caught up? None. You just constantly make things up. No one takes you seriously.

Douggg said:

Then why are you an Amillennialist ?

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Because it's the truth. You can't refute it. Your attempts to do so have failed repeatedly.

Douggg said:

Belief that there will not be the 1000 year millennium in Revelation 20 following Jesus's return is deception.

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LOL. You are 100% incapable of refuting Amillennialism and you say this? You're all talk.

Maybe you can be the first Premil ever to give a convincing explanation for how the following passage can possibly be reconciled with Premillennialism. How do you interpret the following passage?

2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat?

1Tonne said:

I have shown how the martyrs are given white robes and that there are also some from the church of Sardis. Please show me where the text is that says all believers will receive white garments. You keep saying it without backing your statements. That is pretty weak.

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Did you not read all of my post? It's pretty weak for you to claim I'm not backing up my statements when I absolutely have done that. You apparently either don't actually read everything I say or your have poor reading comprehension skills. Here is what I said...

Revelation 3: 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Jesus indicates that those who overcome shall be clothed in white garments. Who are those who overcome? All of those who believe and are born of God. All believers, in other words.

1 John 5:1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. 5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Is there something you don't understand about what I said here? Do you have a reading comprehension problem? Jesus indicated that those who overcome would be clothed in white garments and I showed a passage indicating that all who are born of God and believe that Jesus is the Son of God overcome. So, that means all believers are overcomers and Jesus said those who overcome, which all believers do, shall be clothed in white garments. Did you ever take an English class in school? Do you know how to read? I'm afraid you are in way over your head on this forum because you haven't learned reading comprehension skills yet.

1Tonne said:

Sorry. I did not read the rest of your post. You seem like a very intense personality. This does make me wonder what type of person I am dealing with.....do people find you intense in person?

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You are apparently a very sensitive person. Maybe you should think about refraining from debating scripture so that your little feelings don't get hurt. The topics we talk about are important and should be taken seriously. You think just because I take scripture seriously somehow means I'm too intense. That's ridiculous. Please take some time to learn reading comprehension and learn not to be so easily offended when debating scripture and then get back to us.

1Tonne said:

Please show me where the text is that says all believers will receive white garments.

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Revelation 19:7 "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready."

Revelation 19:8 "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints."

So, the 144,000 in white robes are Jewish.

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Technically, only 10,000 are from the tribe of Judah. We can't fit one tribe into all of them.
Afterwards we see that a number that no one can count from all nations and and kindreds dressed in white robes.

Revelation 7:9 "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

The 144,000 have already been numbered so this is multitude that can't be numbered in white robes is different.

.since there is no early rapture for all believers.

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This I agree with. And I worry that those that believe in a pretrib rapture are setting themselves up to believe in the first fake Christ on the scene. (Satan and his) Which is where the apostasy would come in.

Oh well, we have been warned by both Christ and Paul.