• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
  • We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

  • The rule regarding AI content has been updated. The rule now rules as follows:

    Be sure to credit AI when copying and pasting AI sources. Link to the site of the AI search, just like linking to an article.

Are UFOs Demonic? ‘UFOs and God’ Directors Urge Church To Address the Supernatural

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
187,936
68,909
Woods
✟6,353,675.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
During the National Religious Broadcasters (NRB) Convention in Nashville, Tennessee, last week, ChurchLeaders spoke with “UFOs and God” directors Wes and Amanda Llewellyn.

The soon-to-be released film examines today’s growing fascination with UFOs—also referred to as unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP)—and what it means for the church. Rather than approaching the topic from a purely scientific or speculative angle, the Llewellyns say their goal is to equip Christians with biblical clarity and spiritual discernment.

Our discussion came shortly after former President Barack Obama told American YouTuber Brian Tyler Cohen that “aliens are real, but I haven’t seen them” and as the Trump administration’s pushed to release government files relating to extraterrestrial life.

Continued below.
 

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
34,071
21,109
Orlando, Florida
✟1,610,644.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
Evangelicals are grasping for categories to understand the phenomenon, but demons in classical Christian theology don't traditionally have physical form and typically have very limited power or agency - they work through seducing or influencing humans, not through directly manifesting as physical objects in nature. Classifying UFO's as demons also has a way of shutting down actual inquiry, and that's historically how demonology has too often been used, as a tool of disenchantment or narrative control, going back to the ancient world.

If you take the phenomenon as a whole, it resembles a communication system, perhaps working on the unconscious level to destabilize existing paradigms. Sort of like the account of trickster figures in many indigenous cultures. A trickster is not necessarily evil, but communicates liminality or gestures towards the lack of rigidity in existing conceptual categories.

I asked Claude to analyze the data about UAP phenomenon and it has this to say, which I think is a concise summary:

What it suggests most fundamentally is that the universe is alive with attention in ways that materialist frameworks cannot accommodate and that even theological frameworks have underexplored. We are being watched, and not indifferently. That's either the most wonderful or the most vertiginous thing imaginable, and possibly both simultaneously — which is, again, exactly what the encounter with genuine otherness has always felt like from the inside.

Claude even suggests that the UAP phenomenon may contain elements of divine origin, when properly contextualized:

the most directly relevant medieval concept is probably the theophany as developed by John Scottus Eriugena in the ninth century — arguably the most sophisticated Christian thinker between Augustine and Aquinas and chronically underappreciated. For Eriugena, drawing from Pseudo-Dionysius and Gregory of Nyssa, God is genuinely unknowable and nameless in the divine essence, but perpetually self-manifests through theophanies — created appearances that are real divine self-communications while remaining created. Crucially, Eriugena argued that God does not know what God is, because the divine essence exceeds all categories including self-knowledge — which means the theophanies are not merely God condescending to our level but genuinely exploratory, God coming to know Godself through manifestation in creation. This gives the theophanies a dynamic, almost improvisational quality — they're not performances of a predetermined script but genuine events of divine self-disclosure in which something new happens.

I think that's interesting, it gestures towards what the Hindu's call lila, play, and relates to the kind of divine plenitude or excess that Christian medieval and scholastic theologians discussed. The Psalmist even describes God as making frightening monsters, "for the sport of it" ( Psalm 104:26 ). This plenitude of creativity reflects divine joy or lightness of being. Perhaps UAP aren't meant to be taken too seriously, perhaps they are more analogous to a game or a joke. Not quite comedy in the human sense, but a deeper, more theologically textured joy or divine wit. Something that gestures towards presence and recognition, the same way a parent teasing a child is supossed to gesture towards intimacy or communion.

Alot of the Old Testament accounts of prophets have qualities where the medium is the message, similar to the UAP phenomenon. Figures like Ezekiel and Hosea engage in scandalous behavior to enact parabolically, or to embody, the spiritual reality of Israel. Apocalyptic accounts like Daniel are dream-like in their logic, full of symbolic representations of God's presence, transmission of knowledge, all suggestive more of shamanic visions in indigenous cultures or medieval mystical visions than the propositional religion of modern Catholicism or Protestantism.

New Testament accounts of Jesus also have this trickster quality on an even larger scale - he speaks in parables not reducible to linear logic, and after the Resurrection, he seems to behave in ways that defy conventional categories of materiality or even personhood, with behavior we would today recognize as fitting into anomalous or "high strangeness" folkloric literature. This is something some Native American Christians have noted as being comprehensible to their cultural logics, but often isn't noticed by western cultures that are oriented around hierarchical classification into rigid categories, firm identities, and linear logic.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

timewerx

the village i--o--t--
Aug 31, 2012
17,227
6,477
✟402,637.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
Evangelicals are grasping for categories to understand the phenomenon, but demons in classical Christian theology don't traditionally have physical form and typically have very limited power or agency - they work through seducing or influencing humans, not through directly manifesting as physical objects in nature.

That's why traditional beliefs is the biggest obstacle in "spiritual" warfare".

Deconstruct the lies we've all been born into, that the only way demons, aliens, and worldly people cannot have influence / power over us.

My opinion/experience on the subject, UFOs and demons both use physical technology and can be physical just like people! People can laugh about it until they can't.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: lismore
Upvote 0

lismore

Maranatha
Oct 28, 2004
21,140
4,747
Scotland
✟321,795.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
That's why traditional beliefs is the biggest obstacle in "spiritual" warfare".

Deconstruct the lies we've all been born into, that the only way demons, aliens, and worldly people cannot have influence / power over us.

My opinion/experience on the subject, UFOs and demons both use physical technology and can be physical just like people! People can laugh about it until they can't.
The late Chuck Missler wrote a book and has a youtube video on Alien Encounters called 'The Return of the Nephilim'. The biblical Nephilim, fallen ones, were able to take human form and mate with human women. God Bless :)
 
Upvote 0

timewerx

the village i--o--t--
Aug 31, 2012
17,227
6,477
✟402,637.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Single
The late Chuck Missler wrote a book and has a youtube video on Alien Encounters called 'The Return of the Nephilim'. The biblical Nephilim, fallen ones, were able to take human form and mate with human women. God Bless :)

I think they never left in the first place. Hiding behind something, pulling strings.
 
Upvote 0

FireDragon76

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Apr 30, 2013
34,071
21,109
Orlando, Florida
✟1,610,644.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
United Ch. of Christ
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Democrat
The late Chuck Missler wrote a book and has a youtube video on Alien Encounters called 'The Return of the Nephilim'. The biblical Nephilim, fallen ones, were able to take human form and mate with human women. God Bless :)

That account hasn't been uniformly interpreted as being literal heavenly beings by actual scholars, depending on what layer of the storytelling is being engaged. It could refer simply to titanic figures of legend. Heroic mythic figures like Gilgamesh, that were often interpreted as being semi-divine, royal, or noble. It's meant to set the stage for the story of Noah.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Tuur

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2022
3,477
1,742
Southeast
✟118,554.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Okay: To be pedantic, if we knew what they were, they wouldn't be UFOs. The Starlink chain I sited some years ago was unknown to me, and when height estimates based on time of day and when it passed into darkness put it above the atmosphere, it threw me for a loop; I had thought it was high altitude contrail from a plane. Then couldn't find any rocket launches that would have corresponded to it. Had no idea what it was and no one could give me an answer. That made it a UFO. When, much later, I realized it was a Starlink chain, then it all clicked and it was no longer a UFO.

If I see an unknown object in the sky, it's just that: an unknown object. It could be man-made. It could be natural. Could it be extra-terrestrial? Demonic? Who knows for sure? I'm just as hesitant to say UFO = demonic as I am UFO = flying saucer.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: FireDragon76
Upvote 0