Zions New Children

Douggg said:

There is no verse 29 in Matthew 16.

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Matthew 16:27. I hope you had the nous to see the verse I meant.

Douggg said:

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Jesus was saying up to that point in time no-one had ascended to heaven and returned to speak about the things of heaven.

After Jesus's death and resurrection, John the apostle in Revelation was called up to heaven by Jesus Himself and was told to write down everything he saw and was told. So John 3:13 does not contradict the rapture to heaven.

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I regard this kind of scriptural manipulation as a crime against Bible Truth. John simply visited heaven; in the Spirit. Not to stay or live there.
You may have a case, if only there was other support for a rapture in the Bible. But there isn't and Jesus confirmed there will be no 'rapture to heaven' for anyone.
Jesus said:
1/ John 3:13 No one has gone up into heaven, except the One who came down from heaven, the Son of Man.
Jesus is talking about the things of heaven, truths that apply forever.

2/ Revelation 2-3 Those who are victorious over Satan and who persevere until the end, will receive the crown of Life.
They are the people seen in Revelation 6:9-14. On earth, as proved by the first 3 verses of Revelation 7.

3/ John 7:33-34…I am going away to Him who sent Me and where I go, you cannot come.
A plain statement that also applies forever.

4/ John 8:21-23 Again He said: Where I go, you cannot come. You belong to this world below, I to the world above….
Our home is the earth, we are earth people and not spirits and even after the Millennium, those worthy will become immortal, but will still remain on earth. Revelation 21:1-4

5/ John 17:15 I do not pray that You take My people out of this world, but to keep them from the evil one.
Jesus was talking to God and what He asked applies to all Christians. Remember: we pray for God’s Kingdom to come on earth as it is in heaven and it will, with the New Jerusalem.

6/ Revelation 5:10 You have made them priests for our God and they shall reign on earth.

This refers to every faithful Christian, people from every tribe, race, nation and language, they shall reign on earth. That is our destiny, we never go to heaven, only our souls sleep under the Altar, if we are martyred. Revelation 6:9-11
That they can cry out at times, is metaphorically speaking, not literal.
All scripture is as Written in the Revised English Bible.

concretecamper said:

Maybe he's implying you have a screw loose?

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It is people who believe in unscriptural fantasies, who are nutters.
What is the indictment against those who reject my posts, is their failure to refute the Prophetic Word with other scriptures. Their only recourse is to 'shoot the messenger'.
I am well aware of how people hate having their precious beliefs challenged. But I do it because they are fellow Christians and need to be corrected and warned. We should know exactly what God's plans for our future really are. They are all given to us in the Bible.
Believe the Prophets, or remain in the dark!

Douggg said:

not only does Jesus come with His angels, but also with His bride - the saints in heaven.

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Revelation 19:6-9 never says the Wedding day of the Lamb will take place in heaven. You add that to scripture.
Until you provide a scripture saying people will go to live in heaven, your whole end times scenario is wrong and cannot happen.

Humans riding white horses in the clouds and waving swords, is sheer Hollywood fiction.
Paul was surely right, when he wrote to 2 Timothy 5:3-4, many have believed fables. Lies from the father of lies.

Douggg said:

the bride of Christ make up part of the armies from heaven.

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This is a false statement. Revelation 19:14 mentions ONLY the armies of heaven will accompany Jesus at His Return.

You are a dispensensational believer in a rapture. I have seen pictures showing the Christian people on white horses. holding swords, coming out of clouds.
Did you ever object to that? I can confidently assume you didn't, therefore you are complicit in their whole ridiculous and impossible end times falsehoods.

The rejection of modern Bible scholarship by KJV only adherents, shows how easily confused and wrong headed people can get.

Douggg said:

clothed how, keras ?

14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

keras, you have yet to say who the bride of Christ is that accompanies Jesus in His return to earth.

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That angels and righteous people both wear fine white linen, is not proof for the false belief of humans returning with Jesus.
The proof of Gods holy peoples being on earth during the final 3 1.2 years, in Daniel 7:25 & Revelation 13:7.

The Wisdom of the Wise will Vanish. Isaiah 29:14, 1 Cor. 1:19-21
That this prophecy is true today, is proved by the almost total lack of understanding of God’s plans for our future by Christians and by the proliferation of theories, ideas and pure fiction about end times events. Also, as is prophesied in Isaiah 29:9, those who believe false teachings will become locked into them and be unable to discern or comprehend the truth of what will happen. 2 Thess. 2:11
The Lord says: I frustrate false prophets and make fools of diviners. I reverse what wise men say and make nonsense of their wisdom. Isaiah 44:25, Romans 1:22
Jesus says: I thank You Father for hiding these truths from the learned and wise and revealing them to the simple. Matthew 11:25-26, 1 John 4:4-5
Daniel 12:10: Keep these words secret and seal them up until the time of the end, then only a few wise leaders will understand. Jeremiah 23:20
From the above Bible quotes, we see that there are two types of ‘wise’ people. Those who promote theories, ideas and doctrines that are not fully supported by scripture and those few who ignore mans theories and doctrines, searching all the prophesies to discern the truth of the end time events.
Here are some of the theories, ideas and fanciful notions that abound today:
1/ The Return of Jesus is the next event. This is totally refuted by 2 Thess. 2:1-4

2/ The wrath of God all happens at the Return. To move the Sixth Seal – stated to be the wrath of God and the Lamb, means shuffling the given sequence of Revelation. The Wrath of God, the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, His coming IN the clouds, Psalm 18:7-15, Hab. 3:4 is described quite differently and happens years before the Return ON the clouds. Matthew 24:30, Rev 19:11

3/ The ‘rapture’. A removal of Christians to heaven before the Day of Wrath. Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that at any time, alive or dead, will any humans go to live in heaven. John 3:13 We are earth creatures and as believers in God and Jesus, we have work to do on earth, our destiny is to be ‘a light to the nations’. Isaiah 42:6

4/ The Jews are Gods chosen people. To say this not only abrogates the redemptive work of Jesus for all mankind, but also ignores God’s promises to the Patriarchs and His plan for all the Israelites, whom He watches and cares for. Jer. 16:17, Amos 9:9

5/ There will be a World War 3. Or an economic meltdown, or some other man caused problem will trigger the end time events. It is prophesied over 70 times that the Lord will send a judgement/punishment of fire to destroy His enemies. Matthew 3:12

6/ Preterism. The belief that all the prophesies are fulfilled or abrogated by Christ. They deny the historical facts, refute Nahum 1:2 and all the yet to be fulfilled prophesies. Psalm 110:5-6, Matthew 3:12, Revelation 1:1

7/ Revival must come first. Actually this is correct, but that revival will be instigated by the 144,000, Rev 14:1-7. They will go out from New Israel in pairs, as per the precedent in Luke 10:1-10
.
8/ The lack of teaching on the Prophetic Word. Preachers shy away from any mention of prophecy and judgement, so the people have no real knowledge of end time events.

9/ The need to avoid the ‘mark of the beast’. Rev 13:16-17 But Rev. 7 tells us God’s servants are marked with ‘the seal of God’. God’s people, ‘from every tribe, nation and language’ are gathered in the holy Land, the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5

10/ Apathy. The sheer carelessness and laziness of not attempting or trying to understand what a large proportion of the Bible is informing us. Deut. 32:28-29, 2 Peter 1:19

For now, as we are in the Church age, Ezekiel 14:1-10 applies. This passage says if the Israelites, that is: the Lord’s people, ‘set their hearts on sinful things’, then the Lord will allow them to believe falsehoods, as they desire.

So anyone who wishes to avoid God’s wrath by ‘going to heaven’, or want to think nothing much is yet to happen, then the Lord will lock them into those false theories and fables. It will make an understanding of the truth difficult for them. Jeremiah 6:10

Only after things happen, will full understanding come to all. Isaiah 35:4-5

Douggg said:

As far as the abomination of desolation set up, first there has to be the Gog/Magog event, and afterward the 7 years begin, and 1185 days into the 7 years the abomination of desolation will be set up.

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This sequence of events is Biblically correct. But the AoD setup is clearly stated to happen at the mid point of the final 7 years,
I have given the proof of the extra 30 and 75 days, as per Daniel 12, take place after Jesus Returns.

Your charts are wrong and I have requested nicely before - that you don't post them on my threads

Thanks Moderator; for removing the vituperative and nasty comments from here.