Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

BobRyan said:

"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy... do no work on that day". Ex 20:8-11

Sabbath "is a day of Holy Convocation" Lev 23:2-3 Do you go to church every day?

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I surrender to the Father everyday. The law gave Israel a day to do no work but Israel couldn't enter into God's rest, the Sabbath, represented by the 7th day of creation. I keep it holy everyday by giving over myself to God as a new creation, not made holy by my work but the work of God.

BobRyan said:

Are you retired?

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Yes.

BobRyan said:

Do you really have the luxury of working on no day of the week? seriously??

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I keep God's rest everyday. There is no law against doing good.

In fact almost all Christian denominations argue that all TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God

A sample of Christian denominations ( and Christian leaders) that affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today


[*]The Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
[*]The Westminster Confession of Faith section 19
[*]Voddie Baucham
[*]C.H. Spurgeon
[*]D.L. Moody
[*]Dies Domini by Pope John Paul II
[*]D. James Kennedy
[*]R.C. Sproul

Hentenza said:

Are you not reading my posts

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I see you time and time again fail to address the details I just posted and then start going off into "Jewish Sabbath" rambling.

The statement I just made above is irrefutable which is why you keep changing it to respond to something I did not post.

Were we simply "not supposed to notice"?? That game does not work on me.

Hentenza said:

Let me repeat it once again.

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step 1. Pay attention to the details instead of repeatedly ignoring them

Hentenza said:

None of the above keep the Jewish sabbath.

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They do not mention your phrase in the documents I point you to, and I do not use your phrase.

What they do say is that the 7th day Sabbath started at creation in Eden.
They don't use your term "Jewish Sabbath" because they think the 4th commandment is for all mankind starting in Eden.
(As I keep reminding you), your determination not to actually read what they said about the TEN does not help you.
They say that the Sabbath commandment was made for all mankind, (not the "just Jews" failed idea you keep promoting).

You would know this had you actually read the statements I keep referencing

your pattern of answering out the void of what you have not read, is not at all working for you at this point.
read the actual confessions above, section 19 and then respond as an informed respondent.

Hentenza said:

All of the above celebrate the resurrection of our Lord on Sunday

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no doubt. But that is not the statement I make that you claim to have debunked.
Read their actual statements on the 10 commandments, then respond.

Hentenza said:

. None of the above believe that resting on Sunday is a sin.

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no doubt.
Read their actual statements on the 10 commandments, then respond.

Hentenza said:

Putting up a fictitious list

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The only reason you think those confessions of faith, sermons and scholars are "fictitious" is that you have not actually read the documents I point you to , and keep responding as if not actually knowing the subject details is going to help your argument.

Hentenza said:

I challenge you to prove that any of the above keep the Jewish sabbath.

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I challenge you to actually read their statement and my statement above and accurately state the argument that you claim to be debunking.
You can't keep arguing out of the void ... lack of information about what you are ignoring, and expect that to work
I am making this as simple and easy for you as humanly possible

Since "Someone" is not actually reading the source documents for this part of the discussion...

lets read it for them

Westminster Confession of faith section 19

19.1. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it; and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

19.2. This law, after his Fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in ten commandments, and written in two tables; the first four commandments containing our duty toward God, and the other six our duty to man.

19.3. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a Church under age, ceremonial laws

19.5. The moral law forever binds all, as well justified persons as others, to obedience to it; and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator who gave it. Neither does Christ in the gospel in any way dissolve, but much strengthen, this obligation.

19.7. Neither are the aforementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the gospel, but do sweetly comply with it:

===========================

the same can be shown for the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
and for D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments
and for all references that apparently you have not read

Mark 7:7-13 is a case where Christ flatly condemns ignoring God's commandment and preferring traditions of man instead.

The "argument" that the 7th day Sabbath keepers of today have, with the group I list and keep reminding people of in this discussion, is not about Sabbath starting Eden , rather it is about the Mark 7 statement of Christ and whether or not a man made tradition can edit one of the commandments.

Hentenza said:

Let’s look at what the Westminster confession of faith actually teaches about the sabbath

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It says it is one of the TEN commandments and that the TEN start in Eden and apply to all mankind.

Just as we saw here

BobRyan said:

Since "Someone" is not actually reading the source documents for this part of the discussion...

lets read it for them

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BobRyan said:

Westminster Confession of faith section 19

19.1. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it; and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

19.2. This law, after his Fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in ten commandments, and written in two tables; the first four commandments containing our duty toward God, and the other six our duty to man.

19.3. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a Church under age, ceremonial laws

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BobRyan said:

19.5. The moral law forever binds all, as well justified persons as others, to obedience to it; and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator who gave it. Neither does Christ in the gospel in any way dissolve, but much strengthen, this obligation.

19.7. Neither are the aforementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the gospel, but do sweetly comply with it:

===========================

Click to expand...

BobRyan said:

the same can be shown for the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
and for D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments
and for all references that apparently you have not read

Mark 7:7-13 is a case where Christ flatly condemns ignoring God's commandment and preferring traditions of man instead.

The "argument" that the 7th day Sabbath keepers of today have, with the group I list and keep reminding people of in this discussion, is not about Sabbath starting Eden , rather it is about the Mark 7 statement of Christ and whether or not a man made tradition and edit one of the commandments.

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Hentenza said:

in order to get a context of what is taught in chapter 19

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start by actually reading that section 19 that you have worked so hard to ignore

it says

1. all TEN start in Eden
2. All TEN are included in the moral law of God
3. All TEN are for mankind

This just isn't that hard.

Hentenza said:

Let’s look at what the Westminster confession of faith actually teaches about the sabbath

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It says it is one of the TEN commandments and that the TEN start in Eden and apply to all mankind.

Just as we saw here

BobRyan said:

Since "Someone" is not actually reading the source documents for this part of the discussion...

lets read it for them

Click to expand...

BobRyan said:

Westminster Confession of faith section 19

19.1. God gave to Adam a law, as a covenant of works, by which he bound him and all his posterity to personal, entire, exact, and perpetual obedience; promised life upon the fulfilling, and threatened death upon the breach of it; and endued him with power and ability to keep it.

19.2. This law, after his Fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon Mount Sinai in ten commandments, and written in two tables; the first four commandments containing our duty toward God, and the other six our duty to man.

19.3. Besides this law, commonly called moral, God was pleased to give to the people of Israel, as a Church under age, ceremonial laws

Click to expand...

BobRyan said:

19.5. The moral law forever binds all, as well justified persons as others, to obedience to it; and that not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator who gave it. Neither does Christ in the gospel in any way dissolve, but much strengthen, this obligation.

19.7. Neither are the aforementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the gospel, but do sweetly comply with it:

===========================

Click to expand...

BobRyan said:

the same can be shown for the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19
and for D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments
and for all references that apparently you have not read

Mark 7:7-13 is a case where Christ flatly condemns ignoring God's commandment and preferring traditions of man instead.

The "argument" that the 7th day Sabbath keepers of today have, with the group I list and keep reminding people of in this discussion, is not about Sabbath starting Eden , rather it is about the Mark 7 statement of Christ and whether or not a man made tradition and edit one of the commandments.

Click to expand...

Hentenza said:

in order to get a context of what is taught in chapter 19

Click to expand...

start by actually reading that section 19 that you have worked so hard to ignore

it says

1. all TEN start in Eden
2. All TEN are included in the moral law of God
3. All TEN are for mankind

This just isn't that hard.

BobRyan said:

Mark 7:7-13 is a case where Christ flatly condemns ignoring God's commandment and preferring traditions of man instead.

The "argument" that the 7th day Sabbath keepers of today have, with the group I list and keep reminding people of in this discussion, is not about Sabbath starting Eden , rather it is about the Mark 7 statement of Christ and whether or not a man made tradition CAN edit one of the commandments.

Click to expand...

Hentenza said:

Sabbath, to be kept holy unto Him: which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week; and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,

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the way you comment on your post, it is as if you think the details in those two posts are opposed to each other

Is this what you call "refuting" ??

Have you thought that through???

Now finally you are actually responding to the actual argument that the 7th day Sabbath group is making.
And you are no longer stuck in the rut of "no Sabbath at Creation", no longer stuck in "those guys think Sabbath was only for Jews".
No longer stuck in the rut of "those guys think there is no Sabbath commandment for mankind today"

So at least we finally get to "some progress" getting you to comment on the actual debate in Christianity

Now finally you are actually responding to the actual argument that the 7th day Sabbath group is making.
And you are no longer stuck in the rut of "no Sabbath at Creation", no longer stuck in "those guys think Sabbath was only for Jews".
No longer stuck in the rut of "those guys think there is no Sabbath commandment for mankind today"

So at least we finally get to "some progress" on the actual debate in Christianity

SabbathBlessings said:

I think you might be missing the point, who defines what and when the Sabbath of the Lord thy God is, man or God? God said it is on the seventh day. God spoke it God wrote it Exo20:10. So if we are doing something different than that, someone may be keeping a sabbath, but not the Sabbath of the Lord because only He can define when that is and did Exo20:10. Anything else is coming from outside of God’s Word Isa8:20. You can’t keep something that doesn’t exist, but believe as you wish.

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Since the writings of the Apostle Paul are God-breathed, from the Holy Spirit, and echo what Christ said “judge not, lest ye not be judged”, by saying we should not allow others to judge us on Sabbath observance, I would say that no - i’m not missing the point.

We know the early Church was protected from heresy by Matthew 16:18, we are required to follow its Apostolic tradition by 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 2 Thessalonains 2:37, the early Church implemented the current means by which the Sabbath is observed contrary to SDA claims - indeed, the Roman Catholic Church that some people love to hate literally managed to change the word for the seventh day from “Dies Saturnae” to “Sabato“!

So the claim that the RCC tried to suppress worship on the Sabbath and that this happened at the Council of Nicaea (it didn’t; we have records of what was discussed at the Council and the Sabbath was not even on the agenda, the issue was Arius denying the deity of Christ; indeed, insofar as the council as a secondary matter adopted the Paschalion universally commemorating the Pascha based on the first Sunday following the vernal equinox, this has the effect of ensuring the Great Sabbath in which God Himself rested in a tomb after remaking us in His image on the Cross on Holy Friday is kept - throughout the Church.

The real issue therefore is this: people judging Roman Catholics and other traditional Christians, trying to write my own church (the Orthodox) out of the historical narrative altogether by claiming the Council of Nicaea was a Roman Catholic controversy rather than a controversy involving the Orthodox Church of Alexandria amongst Greek, Coptic and Syriac-speaking Christians, that would only later spread to the Latin speaking West due to the conversion of some Gothic tribes to the Arian religion, such as the Visigoths - this is wrong. Also, Sabbatarians attempting to convert other Christians to their church rather than spreading the Gospel to the unbelievers is deeply offensive, and suggests that they view other churches as practicing a defective Christianity. So my heartfelt request is this stop - since nothing in Scripture says we should attack other Christians based on different patterns of Sabbath observance, but on the contrary, expressly forbids it.

Hentenza said:

The book of Genesis was written by Moses in the 25th century BCE.

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Likely, it was written much later based on a partial Mosaic substrate. We can reject the idea that Moses wrote all of the Pentateuch in its present form outright because the Pentateuch contains occasional Aramaic words and also narrates in Deuteronomy the repose of St. Moses the Prophet.

To be clear, I am not denying that the work is factual, scriptural or inspired, far from it, nor am I endorsing the four-source hypothesis popular among some liberal Christians, where supposedly the text was the result of the Priestly source, the Elohist source, the Yahwist source, and the Deuteronomist source - I reject at a minimum the idea of a disunity between Elohim and YHWH in ancient Judaism (in part because the word El means “God” in Hebrew and vis a vis other Semitic languages languages, being a variant on the triconsonantal root ALH from which we also get Aloho in Syriac, Allah in Arabic and so on, and YHWH means “I am that I am” which seems like an apt testament to the monotheist idea - one God, unoriginate, which at the time was a novel concept since most religions had fairly bizarre cosmologies in which each cadre of deities usually turned out to be descended from a previous cadre, such as Uranus fathering Saturn fathering Jupiter in Greco-Roman Paganism.

The Liturgist said:

Since the writings of the Apostle Paul are God-breathed, from the Holy Spirit, and echo what Christ said “judge not, lest ye not be judged”, by saying we should not allow others to judge us on Sabbath observance, I would say that no - i’m not missing the point.

We know the early Church was protected from heresy by Matthew 16:18, we are required to follow its Apostolic tradition by 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 2 Thessalonains 2:37, the early Church implemented the current means by which the Sabbath is observed contrary to SDA claims - indeed, the Roman Catholic Church that some people love to hate literally managed to change the word for the seventh day from “Dies Saturnae” to “Sabato“!

So the claim that the RCC tried to suppress worship on the Sabbath and that this happened at the Council of Nicaea (it didn’t; we have records of what was discussed at the Council and the Sabbath was not even on the agenda, the issue was Arius denying the deity of Christ; indeed, insofar as the council as a secondary matter adopted the Paschalion universally commemorating the Pascha based on the first Sunday following the vernal equinox, this has the effect of ensuring the Great Sabbath in which God Himself rested in a tomb after remaking us in His image on the Cross on Holy Friday is kept - throughout the Church.

The real issue therefore is this: people judging Roman Catholics and other traditional Christians, trying to write my own church (the Orthodox) out of the historical narrative altogether by claiming the Council of Nicaea was a Roman Catholic controversy rather than a controversy involving the Orthodox Church of Alexandria amongst Greek, Coptic and Syriac-speaking Christians, that would only later spread to the Latin speaking West due to the conversion of some Gothic tribes to the Arian religion, such as the Visigoths - this is wrong. Also, Sabbatarians attempting to convert other Christians to their church rather than spreading the Gospel to the unbelievers is deeply offensive, and suggests that they view other churches as practicing a defective Christianity. So my heartfelt request is this stop - since nothing in Scripture says we should attack other Christians based on different patterns of Sabbath observance, but on the contrary, expressly forbids it.

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Many misinterpret Paul, even in his day and sadly that continues. 2Peter3:16. Paul told us not to judge on things that are handwritten ordinances (by Moses2 Chronicles 33:8 ) that are shadows. Col2:14-17KJV The Bible defines what shadow laws are so we do not have to lean on our own understanding, its animal sacrifices and offerings Heb10:1-10 which is why Paul includes sabbath(s) because there are annual sabbaths that animal sacrifices were required. These all pointed to Jesus and He came to end those Dan9:27.

THE Sabbath- the one that started at Creation Exo20:11 before sin, before a need of animal sacrifices points to our Creator Exo20:11 and Sanctifier Eze20:12 which He will never be a shadow. Its what Jesus told John in vision, the only God we are to worship Exo20:11 Rev14:12

God speaks for Himself and He asked no one to add to His words Pro30:5-6 Deut4:2 Ecc3:14 Rev 22:18-19, which would include the apostles which is why they never did, including Paul. Jesus plainly condemned keeping man-made traditions over obeying the commandments of God- the Sabbath is one of God's comamndment, Sunday sacredness is a man-made tradition, Paul never contradicted Jesus. Mat15:5-14 Mark7:7-13 and they didn’t Col2:8

What day does God in His own words define has His holy day? There is only one in the entire Bible and He was very clear on this matter. Exo20:11 Isa 58:13 Mar2:28 Is God not capable of speaking for Himself? Do our voices really speak over God's? Is it not His still small voice we are to adhere to? Does our will make God's will change? Sadly, these are all deadly deceptions most Christians has bought into.

God will be our Judge and we are Judged based on what God says, not misunderstood Paul, John12:48 James2:11-12 Rev11:18-19 God said to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy, it is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God, Exo20:8-11 Isa 58:13 and it was never a suggestion. Deut4:13 Exo20:6 He asked us to Remember, because its important to Him and He knew most would do something different. He never asked us to take another day that He never sactified or blessed and elevate over the Holy day of the Lord thy God. He commanded man to work six days Exo20:9 and keep the seventh day Sabbath holy Exo20:8 . God wrote this, God spoke it. He could not have made Himself more clear on this matter. Just like many who came before us, thought they knew better as well. The cycle continues. All will get sorted out in God's time.

SabbathBlessings said:

Many misinterpret Paul, even in his day and sadly that continues. 2Peter3:16. Paul told us not to judge on things that are handwritten ordinances (by Moses2 Chronicles 33:8 ) that are shadows. Col2:14-17KJV The Bible defines what shadow laws are so we do not have to lean on our own understanding, its animal sacrifices and offerings Heb10:1-10 which is why Paul includes sabbath(s) because there are annual sabbaths that animal sacrifices were required. These all pointed to Jesus and He came to end those Dan9:27.

THE Sabbath- the one that started at Creation Exo20:11 before sin, before a need of animal sacrifices points to our Creator Exo20:11 and Sanctifier Exe20:12 which He will never be a shadow. Its what Jesus told John in vision, the only God we are to worship Exo20:11 Rev14:12

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And once again we see you trying to use 2 Peter 3:16 as an escape hatch for the misinterpretation of St. Paul, but it doesn’t work here, because quoting Christ our True God, “Judge not lest ye not be judged” directly aligns with the prohibition St. Paul placed on the Sabbath in 2 Colossians 2:16,, but applies more generally; so not only is it specifically wrong to judge people on their compliance with Sabbaths (which I would note St. Paul differentiates in 2 Colossians 2:16 from annual festivals) but it is wrong to judge others in general.

Nor does Mark 7:13 act as a silver bullet to neutralize what St. Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:37 , since our Lord was speaking specifically of the traditions of the Pharisees, which are extremely well-documented, and which included an overly zealous view concerning the Sabbath.

Rather, what St. Peter was warning about were attempts to use Pauline verses such as Colossians 2:8 in an attempt to deprecate the Apostolic tradition and the teaching of the Apostles concerning the requirements for gentile converts to Christianity in Acts 15, which says nothing about the Sabbath.

Thus my point stands: it is unscriptural to criticize the Sabbath-keeping of Roman Catholics, who renamed the seventh day on the Roman Calendar from Dies Saturnae to Sabato, and who conduct the majority of worship services on the Sabbath (all Roman Catholic priests are required to celebrate Mass on the Sabbath and very few Catholic churches exist that do not have worship services including the Mass and typically other devotional services such as Novenas on the Sabbath. Likewise, the second large number of worship services on the seventh day are in Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches, where nearly every parish will have at least a service of the Divine Office on that day.

Additionally the claims made about what happened at the Council of Nicaea involving a Roman Catholic conspiracy to ban worship on the Sabbath and force it to happen on Sunday are demonstrably false as are attempts to erase the Orthodox from the historical record, or to ignore us because our church does not fit into the categories outlined in the historical narratives of 19th century Restorationists.

What day does God in His own words define has His holy day? There is only one in the entire Bible and He was very clear on this matter. Exo20:11 Isa 58:13 Mar2:28 Is God not capable of speaking for Himself? Do our voices really speak over God's? Is it not His still small voice we are to adhere to? Does our will make God's will change? Sadly, these are all deadly deceptions most Christians has bought into.

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Not true - many Holy Days were established by God in Scripture, such as Pentecost and the feast of Tabernacles (both of which are still observed - the latter being the feast of the Transfiguration of Christ). Likewise the Day of Atonement, which traditional Christians such as Orthodox, Catholics and many Anglicans and Lutherans celebrate on September 14th, through the exaltation of the Holy and Life Giving Cross, in worship of God who died for our sins.

Also once again, we see this consistent pattern of an implicit elevation of some Scripture above others, so that what God etched with His finger (which would be the finger of Christ, since we know from Scripture that the Father is non-corporeal) in Exodus above the words spoken by Christ in the Gospels, and to elevate the words spoken by Christ above those breathed by the Holy Spirit in the writings of St. Paul.

God speaks for Himself and He asked no one to add to His words Pro30:5-6 Deut4:2 Ecc3:14 Rev 22:18-19, which would include the apostles which is why they never did, including Paul. Jesus plainly condemned keeping man-made traditions over obeying the commandments of God- the Sabbath is one of God's comamndment, Sunday sacredness is a man-made tradition, Paul never contradicted Jesus. Mat15:5-14 Mark7:7-13 and they didn’t Col2:8

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Indeed, and the Epistles of St. Paul are God-breathed, like all Scripture. And God also commanded that no one remove anything "If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city.”

Now, how about you show me where it says we’re supposed to judge our fellow Christians on their adherence to the Sabbath?

Because my point, my only point, is that the constant criticism of non-Sabbatarian Christians is wrong on every level - historical, scriptural, theological, moral, and should cease. Which is why i’ve never been in any controversy with the Messianic Jewish members of the forum, because for the most part Messianic Jews, indeed for the most part Seventh Day Adventists, do not criticize other Christians.

Hentenza said:

Let’s look at what the Westminster confession of faith actually teaches about the sabbath in order to get a context of what is taught in chapter 19 so let’s look at what chapter 21 section 7 has to say about the keeping on the sabbath.

“As it is of the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in His Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto Him: which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week; and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week, which in Scripture is called the Lord’s Day, and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath.”

Awww look, if you believe what they say in chapter 19 then you have to believe what they say in chapter 21. Your nonsense list has been debunked before and here is just one in your list being debunked again. Care to try for a second?

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Indeed - conversely, the church some people love to attack the most, the Roman Catholic Church, actually managed to get speakers of Latin derived languages to not use Saturday or words derived from it (DIes Saturnae) but instead successfully suppressed the reference to the Pagan diety Saturn with the word Sabbath. And Roman Catholics conduct the majority of worship services on the Seventh Day.

We also have the interesting case of the Holy Apostles and their disciples - 200 in all - worshipping at the third hour on Pentecost Sunday in the Upper Room at the house of St. Mark* when they received the Holy Spirit.

*Interestingly this building is probably still extant; there are two sites, one of which was home to a Gothic church built by the crusaders, but I suspect the Jews are correct that that site was the tomb of St. David, the other site being the Syriac Orthodox Monastery of St. Mark, which is still in use.

The Liturgist said:

And once again we see you trying to use 2 Peter 3:16 as an escape hatch for the misinterpretation of St. Paul, but it doesn’t work here, because quoting Christ our True God, “Judge not lest ye not be judged” directly aligns with the prohibition St. Paul placed on the Sabbath in 2 Colossians 2:16,, but applies more generally; so not only is it specifically wrong to judge people on their compliance with Sabbaths (which I would note St. Paul differentiates in 2 Colossians 2:16 from annual festivals) but it is wrong to judge others in general.

Nor does Mark 7:13 act as a silver bullet to neutralize what St. Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 11:2, 2 Thessalonians 2:15 and 2 Thessalonians 2:37 , since our Lord was speaking specifically of the traditions of the Pharisees, which are extremely well-documented, and which included an overly zealous view concerning the Sabbath.

Rather, what St. Peter was warning about were attempts to use Pauline verses such as Colossians 2:8 in an attempt to deprecate the Apostolic tradition and the teaching of the Apostles concerning the requirements for gentile converts to Christianity in Acts 15, which says nothing about the Sabbath.

Thus my point stands: it is unscriptural to criticize the Sabbath-keeping of Roman Catholics, who renamed the seventh day on the Roman Calendar from Dies Saturnae to Sabato, and who conduct the majority of worship services on the Sabbath (all Roman Catholic priests are required to celebrate Mass on the Sabbath and very few Catholic churches exist that do not have worship services including the Mass and typically other devotional services such as Novenas on the Sabbath. Likewise, the second large number of worship services on the seventh day are in Eastern and Oriental Orthodox churches, where nearly every parish will have at least a service of the Divine Office on that day.

Additionally the claims made about what happened at the Council of Nicaea involving a Roman Catholic conspiracy to ban worship on the Sabbath and force it to happen on Sunday are demonstrably false as are attempts to erase the Orthodox from the historical record, or to ignore us because our church does not fit into the categories outlined in the historical narratives of 19th century Restorationists.



Not true - many Holy Days were established by God in Scripture, such as Pentecost and the feast of Tabernacles (both of which are still observed - the latter being the feast of the Transfiguration of Christ). Likewise the Day of Atonement, which traditional Christians such as Orthodox, Catholics and many Anglicans and Lutherans celebrate on September 14th, through the exaltation of the Holy and Life Giving Cross, in worship of God who died for our sins.

Also once again, we see this consistent pattern of an implicit elevation of some Scripture above others, so that what God etched with His finger (which would be the finger of Christ, since we know from Scripture that the Father is non-corporeal) in Exodus above the words spoken by Christ in the Gospels, and to elevate the words spoken by Christ above those breathed by the Holy Spirit in the writings of St. Paul.



Indeed, and the Epistles of St. Paul are God-breathed, like all Scripture. And God also commanded that no one remove anything "If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city.”

Now, how about you show me where it says we’re supposed to judge our fellow Christians on their adherence to the Sabbath?

Because my point, my only point, is that the constant criticism of non-Sabbatarian Christians is wrong on every level - historical, scriptural, theological, moral, and should cease. Which is why i’ve never been in any controversy with the Messianic Jewish members of the forum, because for the most part Messianic Jews, indeed for the most part Seventh Day Adventists, do not criticize other Christians.

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Because you say so is not a biblical argument.