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The Sabbath, Worship and the End Time

BobRyan

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Hi BNR, are you confusing me with another poster? I know the Sabbath was never mentioned until the Israelites crossed over the Red Sea.
For those who have not read Gen 2:2-3 and Ex 20:11 that says Gen 2 is the starting point for the Sabbath, the idea above might work for a minute or two.

Ex 20:
8 “Remember THE Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed THE Sabbath day and made it holy. (Sanctified it)

Gen 2:2-3
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Paul says that "do not covet" would not be known apart from reading it in the commandments.. See Rom 7:7
The failed argument that imagines that this means "do not covet" is just for Jews falls flat.


In addition most people groups without a Bible also do not seem to be aware of "do not make graven images" for worship.

hmm. "Do not covet" and "Do not make graven images for worship, and "do not take God's name in vain". are all commandments not mentioned at all in the five books of Moses prior to Exodus
The Genesis account of God resting does not indicate that any
Ex 20:11 says it is sufficient to establish the origin of the Sabbath, ( for those willing to accept the word of God (over pure speculation)

No wonder almost all major Christian denominations accept the Bible fact that the TEN originate in Eden
Bible fact??, or pure speculation.

Go ahead and read the texts and then see if you can figure it out.
Will you use just one example of one apostate church out of "almost all" of them that tells us the ten commandments originated in Eden?
I did not refer to anyone as "apostate" but I gave you the Westminster Confession of faith saying ALL TEN originate in Eden, so that means it is not only the Presbyterian church but also Congregational Baptist, and Anglican churches

And I also gave you the "Baptist Confession of Faith" section 19.

I assume you simply don't read those references before you respond.

I also gave you D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN where many Evangelicals affirm D.L. Moody's teaching. He states that all TEN are from Eden.

You appear to be responding before you actually read the references.
 
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BNR32FAN

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For those who have not read Gen 2:2-3 and Ex 20:11 that says Gen 2 is the starting point for the Sabbath, the idea above might work for a minute or two.
Everyone here has read Genesis 2 and Exodus 20 which is why we’re having this argument because just because God rested on the 7th day doesn’t imply that anyone else did or that God ever commanded anyone to. You claim that we are the ones speculating when that’s exactly what you are doing, because we have passages of scripture that specifically state that the sabbath commandment was given to the Israelites thru Moses. Nehemiah 9:13-14 and Ezekiel 20:11-12. What verses do you have to support your position? ONE VERSE TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT OF THE DISCUSSION THAT WAS TAKING PLACE. All you have to support this theory that the sabbath was commanded at creation is Mark 2:27 where Jesus was asked “why are your disciples breaking the sabbath?” And you cherry pick His reply “the sabbath was made for man” as if He was responding to that question by saying that the sabbath was given to man at creation which doesn’t even remotely correlate to the question He was asked. And let’s not beat around the bush here, we all know, and that means you to, that His intention for saying that was that the sabbath was not intended to be a burden on man it was intended to be a blessing to man. But you so craftily distort His words to support your theology by interpreting it to mean something completely different than what actually fits the context of the discussion that was taking place in that passage. And that’s the ONLY PASSAGE YOU HAVE. You have nothing else, zip, zero, nada. Just one passage that is talking about WHY His disciples broke the sabbath. WHEN the sabbath was commanded IS IRRELEVANT TO THE QUESTION THAT WAS ASKED. So no we have two passages of scripture THAT SPECIFICALLY SAY WHEN THE COMMANDMENT WAS GIVEN TO THE ISRAELITES. Our two passages are specifically about WHEN the commandment was given in the context of the passage.

So now explain to me how we are the ones speculating here.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Paul says that "do not covet" would not be known apart from reading it in the commandments.. See Rom 7:7
The failed argument that imagines that this means "do not covet" is just for Jews falls flat.
Can you please quote anyone in this thread that ever claimed that the commandment forbidding coveting is only for the Jews? I bet you can’t.
 
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BNR32FAN

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hmm. "Do not covet" and "Do not make graven images for worship, and "do not take God's name in vain". are all commandments not mentioned at all in the five books of Moses prior to Exodus
That’s not true and you know it. I already quoted Job 1:5 where Job offered sacrifices just in case his sons had cursed God in their hearts and you never responded to it.

“When the days of feasting had completed their cycle, Job would send and consecrate them, rising up early in the morning and offering burnt offerings according to the number of them all; for Job said, “Perhaps my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus Job did continually.”
‭‭Job‬ ‭1‬:‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The first person to covet was Eve in the garden of Eden when she took from the tree of knowledge. That was an obvious indication that coveting was forbidden. But if that’s not sufficient we also have Genesis 6 and Genesis 20 where God rebuked Pharaoh and Abimelech for taking Abraham’s wife which is also coveting. They were innocent but it still clearly indicates God’s expectation against them taking something that doesn’t belong to them.

As far as making graven images, it’s worshipping idols that is forbidden. They weren’t forbidden to make graven images that weren’t for worship. And as far as worshipping idols goes the closest verse I can find suggesting that worshipping idols was forbidden before the Israelites were in Egypt is Genesis 35:2-4 where Jacob collects the idols from his people and hides them under a tree. Then I’m guessing they left them there and moved to Bethel

“So Jacob said to his household and to all who were with him, “Put away the foreign gods which are among you, and purify yourselves and change your garments; and let us arise and go up to Bethel, and I will make an altar there to God, who answered me in the day of my distress and has been with me wherever I have gone.” So they gave to Jacob all the foreign gods which they had and the rings which were in their ears, and Jacob hid them under the oak which was near Shechem.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭35‬:‭2‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

To me this seems obvious that Jacob got rid of these for a reason so I think it’s safe to say that he somehow knew that worshipping idols is displeasing to God.

But what I can’t seem to find ANYWHERE BEFORE EXODUS 16 IS ANYTHING ABOUT ANYONE OBSERVING THE SABBATH.

And neither can you.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Ex 20:11 says it is sufficient to establish the origin of the Sabbath, ( for those willing to accept the word of God (over pure speculation)
No it doesn’t actually say that at all. Here’s what it actually says.

“Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath of the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work, you or your son or your daughter, your male or your female servant or your cattle or your sojourner who stays with you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭9‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

The words “sufficient to establish the origin of the sabbath” isn’t mentioned anywhere in the passage. Now if what you meant to say was that Exodus 20:11 is sufficient to establish the origin of the sabbath I’d be willing to bet that everyone in this thread would agree with that. Nobody that I know of argues that the sabbath wasn’t established in Genesis 2. The REAL ARGUMENT is that no one was ever commanded to observe it and no one is ever recorded as ever observing it before Exodus 16. Not to mention Nehemiah 9 and Ezekiel 20 specifically saying that it was made known to the Israelites and given to them thru Moses after they left Egypt.

And where is your passage that suggests otherwise? Let me guess Mark 2:27? Lol
No wonder almost all major Christian denominations accept the Bible fact that the TEN originate in Eden
Really? Almost all major Christian denominations believe the sabbath commandment began at creation? Please do provide a shred of evidence to support this absurd claim. I’d really love to see that.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I did not refer to anyone as "apostate" but I gave you the Westminster Confession of faith saying ALL TEN originate in Eden, so that means it is not only the Presbyterian church but also Congregational Baptist, and Anglican churches
These three groups amount to about 12% of Christians. You’ve got 50% in Catholicism by itself which reject the Westminster Confession of Faith not to mention numerous other denominations that are too many to count. So I don’t know where you’re getting your numbers from. Maybe the same place you’re getting your theology, out of thin air.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Also the fact that Jesus Christ is our Creator.
  • He rested on the first seventh day.
  • He made a promise to Abraham who kept His commandments.
  • He gave the commandments on Sinai by His own voice and written by His own hand.
  • He called the Sabbath a sign and a perpetual covenant.
  • He taught the Sabbath in the flesh during His ministry.
  • He prophesied the Sabbath being kept at the end of time.
  • He died on the cross and rested on the Sabbath even in death.
  • From heaven He pointed back to the Sabbath instituted at creation in the last call to worship.
The apostles kept the Sabbath after the crucifixion, and taught it to the Gentiles on the Sabbath day, which flies in the face of any idea that the Sabbath is no longer binding.

The Sabbath is found throughout scripture, but Sunday sacredness cannot be found in scripture whatsoever.

How is it that a few verses taken out of context can wipe away overwhelming evidence for keeping the Sabbath?
The answer: They can't. Evidence for the Sabbath stands in stark contrast to a few verses taken out of context.

How is it that if there is no evidence for Sunday as a Sabbath in scripture, and yet it has taken the place of the Sabbath?
The answer: Tradition. "Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition."

There is no adding to or taking away from God's word (Deuteronomy 4:1-5, Proverbs 30:5-6, Revelation 22:18-19, Matthew 5:17-20). God does not add nor take away from His own words, and He does not change (Malachi 3:6). Jesus does not change (Hebrews 13:8). Therefore, the counsel of God stands.

Proverbs 19:21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Psalm 33:11 The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

Isaiah 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Thank God finally a sabbatarian that at least recognizes that the sabbath commandment was given at Sinai. You’re a rare breed my friend. Maybe you can help convince your fellow sabbatarians of this, nobody else seems to be able to.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Also the fact that Jesus Christ is our Creator.
  • He rested on the first seventh day.
  • He made a promise to Abraham who kept His commandments.
  • He gave the commandments on Sinai by His own voice and written by His own hand.
  • He called the Sabbath a sign and a perpetual covenant.
  • He taught the Sabbath in the flesh during His ministry.
  • He prophesied the Sabbath being kept at the end of time.
  • He died on the cross and rested on the Sabbath even in death.
  • From heaven He pointed back to the Sabbath instituted at creation in the last call to worship.
The apostles kept the Sabbath after the crucifixion, and taught it to the Gentiles on the Sabbath day, which flies in the face of any idea that the Sabbath is no longer binding.

The Sabbath is found throughout scripture, but Sunday sacredness cannot be found in scripture whatsoever.

How is it that a few verses taken out of context can wipe away overwhelming evidence for keeping the Sabbath?
The answer: They can't. Evidence for the Sabbath stands in stark contrast to a few verses taken out of context.

How is it that if there is no evidence for Sunday as a Sabbath in scripture, and yet it has taken the place of the Sabbath?
The answer: Tradition. "Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition."

There is no adding to or taking away from God's word (Deuteronomy 4:1-5, Proverbs 30:5-6, Revelation 22:18-19, Matthew 5:17-20). God does not add nor take away from His own words, and He does not change (Malachi 3:6). Jesus does not change (Hebrews 13:8). Therefore, the counsel of God stands.

Proverbs 19:21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Psalm 33:11 The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

Isaiah 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
You mentioned that the sabbath was a “sign and a perpetual covenant”. Did God say that anywhere else? He said the same thing to Noah and Abraham and about Aaron’s priesthood, and about the new covenant. Are we still obligated to be circumcised on the 8th day like the Abrahamic Covenant? Are we still under Aaron’s priesthood like the Priestly Covenant? Or are you just misunderstanding the usage of the Hebrew word Olam?
 
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BNR32FAN

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Also the fact that Jesus Christ is our Creator.
  • He rested on the first seventh day.
  • He made a promise to Abraham who kept His commandments.
  • He gave the commandments on Sinai by His own voice and written by His own hand.
  • He called the Sabbath a sign and a perpetual covenant.
  • He taught the Sabbath in the flesh during His ministry.
  • He prophesied the Sabbath being kept at the end of time.
  • He died on the cross and rested on the Sabbath even in death.
  • From heaven He pointed back to the Sabbath instituted at creation in the last call to worship.
The apostles kept the Sabbath after the crucifixion, and taught it to the Gentiles on the Sabbath day, which flies in the face of any idea that the Sabbath is no longer binding.

The Sabbath is found throughout scripture, but Sunday sacredness cannot be found in scripture whatsoever.

How is it that a few verses taken out of context can wipe away overwhelming evidence for keeping the Sabbath?
The answer: They can't. Evidence for the Sabbath stands in stark contrast to a few verses taken out of context.

How is it that if there is no evidence for Sunday as a Sabbath in scripture, and yet it has taken the place of the Sabbath?
The answer: Tradition. "Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition."

There is no adding to or taking away from God's word (Deuteronomy 4:1-5, Proverbs 30:5-6, Revelation 22:18-19, Matthew 5:17-20). God does not add nor take away from His own words, and He does not change (Malachi 3:6). Jesus does not change (Hebrews 13:8). Therefore, the counsel of God stands.

Proverbs 19:21 There are many devices in a man's heart; nevertheless the counsel of the Lord, that shall stand.

Psalm 33:11 The counsel of the Lord standeth for ever, the thoughts of his heart to all generations.

Isaiah 46:9-10 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
The Bible never says that the apostles kept the sabbath after Christ’s resurrection. It says they preached in the synagogues on the sabbath. The sabbath was abolished according to Colossians 2:16.
 
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BNR32FAN

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The apostles kept the Sabbath after the crucifixion, and taught it to the Gentiles on the Sabbath day, which flies in the face of any idea that the Sabbath is no longer binding.
Wow I never knew this. Where does the Bible say that the apostles taught gentiles to keep the sabbath on the sabbath? I’m not familiar with this passage of scripture.
 
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BNR32FAN

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The Sabbath is found throughout scripture, but Sunday sacredness cannot be found in scripture whatsoever.
Yeah Jesus only rose from the dead, nothing significant happening there huh.
 
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BNR32FAN

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How is it that a few verses taken out of context can wipe away overwhelming evidence for keeping the Sabbath?
The answer: They can't. Evidence for the Sabbath stands in stark contrast to a few verses taken out of context.
By all means please do explain the proper context of Colossians 2:14-16 and make sure that you take into consideration the proper usage of the word “or” that is used in verse 16 and don’t forget that the handwriting of the ordinances against us were in fact hand written by Moses according to Exodus 24:4

Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of the Lord and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the Lord has spoken we will do!” Moses wrote down all the words of the Lord. Then he arose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain with twelve pillars for the twelve tribes of Israel.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭24‬:‭3‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So yeah please do explain to us the proper context of Colossians 2:14-16. Good luck.
 
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BNR32FAN

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BNR32FAN

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All of these can be answered by reading scripture.



What did God say?

Genesis 26:4-5 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.



What did God say?

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.



What did Paul say?

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.



What did Jesus say?

Matthew 24:19-20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.



What did the Revelation of Jesus Christ say?

This is Jesus from heaven.

Revelation 1:1-2 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

This is the last call to worship before Jesus returns.

Revelation 14:6-7 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

↓ ↓ Points to creation concerning worship where we find the Sabbath instituted

Genesis 2:1-3 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

↑ ↑ Points to creation concerning the Sabbath where we find the Sabbath instituted.

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.



The Sabbath is specifically mentioned as the day the apostles would preach to the Gentiles. The very keeping of the Sabbath by the apostles in their preaching on the Sabbath was teaching the Gentiles to keep the Sabbath, and there is proof of this in Acts as the Gentiles asked to be preached to on the next Sabbath.

Acts 13:42-44 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.



The Sabbath was instituted at creation. Adam and Eve weren't Jews. Abraham wasn't a Jew. If Abraham is recorded as keeping God's commandments, then the Sabbath was being kept up to Abraham which is before there was such a thing as Israel or Jews.



Colossians 2: Let no man judge you...

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.

What sabbath days is Paul talking about?

Look at the full context.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

The handwriting of ordinances that was against us is mentioned in Deuteronomy 31:26 as being put beside the ark, not in it where the tables of stone were kept.

Deuteronomy 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

This was the book of the law, the handwriting of ordinances, not the Ten commandments. Further proof.

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The handwriting of ordinances was a shadow of things to come. The sabbath days mentioned are the days in the handwriting of ordinances, not the Sabbath commandment.

Even if you could link the Sabbath commandment, the statement is not negating the Sabbath, it is saying to not let others judge you for keeping it (see the Amplified translation of the verse), which negates the idea that it is doing away with the Sabbath altogether.

Romans 14: One man esteemeth one day above another...

Romans 14:1-8 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

The subject of Romans 14 is the judging of others, to the point of imposing your will on their conscience. Each person's conscience is their own. As it says, "Let every man be fully pursuaded in his own mind." The freedom of choice is given to all of us, based on our own conscience. The Sabbath commandment is not negated whatsoever by Romans 14.



If we are called to keep the commandments of God, and the Sabbath is one of those Ten commandments, then we are indeed directed to observe the Sabbath. As Exodus says, the Sabbath is a perpetual covenant for Israel. Israel includes the Gentiles. See Romans 11 where we are grafted in.



What changed in your example? The Isrealites sinned against God. God's standard didn't change. It has never changed.



Read the preceding verses.

2 Corinthians 3:1-3 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? Or do we need, as some others, epistles of commendation to you or letters of commendation from you? You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.

Tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart. Where else do we find this?

Jeremiah 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Hebrews 10:16-17 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”


The law wasn't done away with. The law is written in the heart in the new covenant.
You seem pretty studied on the scriptures, that would lead me to believe that you know full well that circumcision was also a perpetual commandment as well as circumcision, burnt offerings, grain offerings, the day of atonement, the Levitican Priesthood, the feast of unleavened bread, the feast of weeks, the feast of booths, the burning of the incense on the alter, all of these were commanded to be observed forever, IF you always interpret the Hebrew word Olam as forever. So how do we know when to interpret Olam to mean forever? Well by defining scripture by using scripture. If any of these don’t continue forever then the word Olam in reference to that commandment obviously doesn’t mean forever. It’s really that simple. So it’s not just about “reading scripture” it’s about understanding scripture.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I explained this. Do you disagree with my explanation?
Not knowing something and not being allowed to do it are two completely different things....yep, same result
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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The problem with your explanation is you can’t point to any passage of scripture that says that God ever told anyone to keep the sabbath. Furthermore you can’t point to any passage of scripture where anyone ever observed the sabbath, nor can you point to any passage where God expresses any expectation for anyone to observe it. You point out that the Bible doesn’t record every commandment that God gave. My response to that would be yeah and the only way we know that is thru Him rebuking people for committing those sins. With the sabbath He doesn’t rebuke anyone for not keeping it for the first 1500 years after creation. He doesn’t begin rebuking anyone until after the exodus from Egypt. Furthermore after Egypt the sabbath is almost constantly mentioned in the Old Testament, before that it’s only mentioned once when God rested then complete silence until Exodus 16. My point is, there’s a reason why we can say that certain laws were in place when the scriptures don’t specifically record God giving them, we can know that they were given because of God rebuking people for breaking them. If God did command people to observe the sabbath at creation it would appear that everyone did observe it perfectly since no one is ever rebuked for not observing it.
Shavuah Tov! Yes, I understand your points. Yet there were many things, even for gentile nations, that they were judged for, yet they were not specifically given commandments. Remember Adam, Abraham and Noahk were not Jews in the sense of Sinai. But again, Torah is eternal, it was NOT somehow created at Sinai. Again, the Sabbath at Sinai was given to Israel as a SIGN. Was there SIN before Sinai? Yes? Then their was Law...
 
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Luke81718

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Hebrews 4:1-11
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Galatians 4:1-11
Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;
But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.
Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Galatians 4:1-11

Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
He is saying that they were pagans, they accepted Christianity, and now are going back to doing pagan things...
 
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Luke81718

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He is saying that they were pagans, they accepted Christianity, and now are going back to doing pagan things...
I would say that is a very limited reading of the text.

As for me, every day is the Sabbath.

And as Christ made abundantly clear, the Sabbath was created for man, and not the other way around.

"There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

For those who are in bondage to Sabbath worship. Paul says, labour to enter into that rest, and warns of the consequences of failing to do so.

The old covenant has expired.

The new covenant has been written in His blood, not upon tablets of stone. But upon the once stony tablets of our hearts.

We now worship the Lord in Spirit and in truth. Not according to the letter of the law.
This is the worship that God seeks.

John 4
21Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews. 23But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

There were a group of people in Jesus' day who also preached strict observance of the Sabbath. It did not end well for them.
Or did you miss that part?
 
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I would say that is a very limited reading of the text.
LOL how is that? That is EXACTLY what he is talking about. It can't be anything else...they were pagans and did not worship The True God. Then, as he says, they knew The True God, some went back to some pagan practices.

Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
 
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