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The Sabbath, Worship and the End Time

SabbathBlessings

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Abraham walked with God and was His friend. You don't think with that type of relationship they did not discuss Torah? They absolutely did!
Yes, they walked with God which means according to Scripture....they kept God's commandments.


Judges 2:17 Yet they would not listen to their judges, but they played the harlot with other gods, and bowed down to them. They turned quickly from the way in which their fathers walked, in obeying the commandments of the Lord; they did not do so.

1 King 3:14 So if you walk in My ways, to keep My statutes and My commandments, as your father David walked, then I will lengthen your days.”

2 Chron 17:4 but sought the God of his father, and walked in His commandments and not according to the acts of Israel.
 
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BNR32FAN

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And how long would it take being forced to work as slaves in Egypt to forget Shabbat??? Shabbat was NOT created at Sinai. Remember, not EVERYTHING is in the Scriptures...
So your reply comes out of thin air with nothing to support it. You just contradicted what is specifically written in scripture based on your own speculation.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Adam is a HEBREW name and term. Anthropos is a GREEK word for man. So in the original Hebrew He used Adam.
The New Testament isn’t written in Hebrew because most Jews didn’t speak Hebrew during Christ’s ministry they mostly spoke and wrote in Greek because they were conquered by the Greeks about 250 years before Christ’s ministry. Paul mentioned Adam by name several times in his writings and he always used the name Adam not anthropos.
 
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Hentenza

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Abraham walked with God and was His friend. You don't think with that type of relationship they did not discuss Torah? They absolutely did!
Prove it. Verses please.
 
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Hentenza

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And how long would it take being forced to work as slaves in Egypt to forget Shabbat??? Shabbat was NOT created at Sinai. Remember, not EVERYTHING is in the Scriptures...
Please provide a verse that shows anyone including Adam or Abraham keeping the sabbath before Moses.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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The New Testament isn’t written in Hebrew because most Jews didn’t speak Hebrew during Christ’s ministry they mostly spoke and wrote in Greek because they were conquered by the Greeks about 250 years before Christ’s ministry. Paul mentioned Adam by name several times in his writings and he always used the name Adam not anthropos.
Some of it was. There was a Hebrew Matthew. There may have been more that have been lost to history. Adam can be used as a name and as man, depending on the context such as was the case here, it was both. Either way I am still correct. He did not say the Sabbath was made for Jews, not Jews for the Sabbath...did he....
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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You just contradicted what is specifically written in scripture based on your own speculation.
Such as? However, as I have said, not everything is written in scripture...
 
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Hentenza

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BNR32FAN

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Some of it was. There was a Hebrew Matthew. There may have been more that have been lost to history. Adam can be used as a name and as man, depending on the context such as was the case here, it was both. Either way I am still correct. He did not say the Sabbath was made for Jews, not Jews for the Sabbath...did he....
That’s a fair point but we still have to deal with when it was actually given and who was expected to observe it.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Such as? However, as I have said, not everything is written in scripture...
Nehemiah 9:13-14. God made the sabbath known to the Israelites. This is also echoed in Ezekiel 20:12. So how can the commandment have already been given to all mankind if it had not been given to the Israelites until after they left Egypt?

Also in Exodus 16 God gives them instructions to gather twice as much manna on the 6th day and not to gather any on the 7th day as a TEST for them to see whether or not they will follow His instructions.

“Then the Lord said to Moses, “Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a day’s portion every day, that I may test them, whether or not they will walk in My instruction. On the sixth day, when they prepare what they bring in, it will be twice as much as they gather daily.””
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭16‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Both God and Moses call this a sabbath further into the chapter.

“Now on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. When all the leaders of the congregation came and told Moses, then he said to them, “This is what the Lord meant: Tomorrow is a sabbath observance, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning.” So they put it aside until morning, as Moses had ordered, and it did not become foul nor was there any worm in it. Moses said, “Eat it today, for today is a sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the sabbath, there will be none.” It came about on the seventh day that some of the people went out to gather, but they found none. Then the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My instructions? See, the Lord has given you the sabbath; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭16‬:‭22‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So if these Israelites had already been given the sabbath commandment before Exodus, why is God testing them to see whether or not they will keep the sabbath commandment in this chapter if they should’ve already demonstrated whether they would keep it or not since it was supposedly already given to them before their exodus from Egypt?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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So if these Israelites had already been given the sabbath commandment before Exodus, why is God testing them to see whether or not they will keep the sabbath commandment in this chapter if they should’ve already demonstrated whether they would keep it or not since it was supposedly already given to them before their exodus from Egypt?
Jesus said He made the Sabbath for man- there are many men who think what Jesus said is not for them. Even though He said it explicitly the Sabbath blesses man (not Jew) when keeping Isa 56:2 and made for everyone Isa56:6. All flesh in heaven will be keeping, not just Jews Isa66:22-23 and He will never force anyone to worship Him for eternity.

Many people today do not believe God, just as they did not back then over this same commandment.

They rebelled over Sabbath-keeping

Eze 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

And it kept them from crossing over into the Promise Land

Eze 20: 15 So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, ‘flowing with milk and honey,’ the glory of all lands, 16 because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.

So God tests His people just as we are being tested and told not to follow in their path of disobedience. Heb4:11 if we hear Him calling us from our rebellion Heb3:7-19

Nehemiah was after 70 years of Israel being in captivity in Babylon for disobedience to God's commandments., this was way after the wilderness experience . Nehemiah restored the wall of Jerusalem and restored worship. Nehemiah was not countermanding what God said when His Sabbath started Exo20:11 and you claim the Israelites were not made known the Sabbath before Mt Sinai but your own passage says otherwise plainly. Just like Cain knew it was sin to murder Abel, and Joseph knew about adultery all from the Ten Commandments, obviously God spoke to His people but the Ten Commandments was not written until Mt Sinai, which is probably what Nehemiah meant.

Now on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. When all the leaders of the congregation came and told Moses, then he said to them, “This is what the Lord meant: Tomorrow is a sabbath observance, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning.” So they put it aside until morning, as Moses had ordered, and it did not become foul nor was there any worm in it. Moses said, “Eat it today, for today is a sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the sabbath, there will be none.” It came about on the seventh day that some of the people went out to gather, but they found none. Then the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My instructions? See, the Lord has given you the sabbath; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭16‬:‭22‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Also they were keeping the Sabbath in Egpyt

Exo 5:5 And Pharaoh said, Behold, the people of the land now are many, and ye make them rest from their burdens.

The rest in this verse is:
שָׁבַת shâbath, shaw-bath'; a primitive root; to repose, i.e. desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific):—(cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

We really need to let God be God- God personally wrote out His own commandments placed them inside His ark, has a copy in heaven Rev15:5 Rev11:19 and numbered them by design Deut4:13 Exo34:13 and claimed ownership of them Exo20:6 in His own written and spoken Testimony Exo31:18.

This argument is not a new argument, its exactly what happened in Scripture, its the same cycle. . .
 
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BNR32FAN

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Abraham walked with God and was His friend. You don't think with that type of relationship they did not discuss Torah? They absolutely did!
You’re playing word games now. Abraham didn’t have the same law that the Israelites had. You’re intentionally using the word Torah to muddy up the discussion with ambiguity in order to keep from getting trapped. Why don’t you use more specific terms instead of silently running from the discussion? Tell us exactly what law’s Abraham was expected to obey then quote scripture to support it.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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That’s a fair point but we still have to deal with when it was actually given and who was expected to observe it.
I thought we already went through that...Yeshua already explained that...why do I have to again? He did not say the Sabbath was made for Jews, not Jews for the Sabbath...did he....The Sabbath was given to Israel AS A SIGN. It was NOT created at Sinai. Get IT? The Sabbath at Sinai was given as a perpetual SIGN of the covenant with Israel. Circumcision was given as a SIGN of the covenant with Abraham. The rainbow was used as a SIGN of the covenant with Noahk.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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You’re playing word games now. Abraham didn’t have the same law that the Israelites had. You’re intentionally using the word Torah to muddy up the discussion with ambiguity in order to keep from getting trapped. Why don’t you use more specific terms instead of silently running from the discussion? Tell us exactly what law’s Abraham was expected to obey then quote scripture to support it.
I am not trapped at all LOL! Not playing word games either. maybe your definition is wrong, have you ever thought about that?
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Jesus said He made the Sabbath for man- there are many men who think what Jesus said is not for them. Even though He said it explicitly the Sabbath blesses man (not Jew) when keeping Isa 56:2 and made for everyone Isa56:6. All flesh in heaven will be keeping, not just Jews Isa66:22-23 and He will never force anyone to worship Him for eternity.

Many people today do not believe God, just as they did not back then over this same commandment.

They rebelled over Sabbath-keeping

Eze 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

And it kept them from crossing over into the Promise Land

Eze 20: 15 So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, ‘flowing with milk and honey,’ the glory of all lands, 16 because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.

So God tests His people just as we are being tested and told not to follow in their path of disobedience. Heb4:11 if we hear Him calling us from our rebellion Heb3:7-19

Nehemiah was after 70 years of Israel being in captivity in Babylon for disobedience to God's commandments., this was way after the wilderness experience . Nehemiah restored the wall of Jerusalem and restored worship. Nehemiah was not countermanding what God said when His Sabbath started Exo20:11 and you claim the Israelites were not made known the Sabbath before Mt Sinai but your own passage says otherwise plainly. Just like Cain knew it was sin to murder Abel, and Joseph knew about adultery all from the Ten Commandments, obviously God spoke to His people but the Ten Commandments was not written until Mt Sinai, which is probably what Nehemiah meant.

Now on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. When all the leaders of the congregation came and told Moses, then he said to them, “This is what the Lord meant: Tomorrow is a sabbath observance, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning.” So they put it aside until morning, as Moses had ordered, and it did not become foul nor was there any worm in it. Moses said, “Eat it today, for today is a sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the sabbath, there will be none.” It came about on the seventh day that some of the people went out to gather, but they found none. Then the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My instructions? See, the Lord has given you the sabbath; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭16‬:‭22‬-‭30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Also they were keeping the Sabbath in Egpyt

Exo 5:5 And Pharaoh said, Behold, the people of the land now are many, and ye make them rest from their burdens.

The rest in this verse is:
שָׁבַת shâbath, shaw-bath'; a primitive root; to repose, i.e. desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causative, figurative or specific):—(cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

We really need to let God be God- God personally wrote out His own commandments placed them inside His ark, has a copy in heaven Rev15:5 Rev11:19 and numbered them by design Deut4:13 Exo34:13 and claimed ownership of them Exo20:6 in His own written and spoken Testimony Exo31:18.

This argument is not a new argument, its exactly what happened in Scripture, its the same cycle. . .
Yeah I am not sure why they are having problems understanding this. All they keep saying is you have not proven anything LOL
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Nehemiah 9:13-14. God made the sabbath known to the Israelites. This is also echoed in Ezekiel 20:12. So how can the commandment have already been given to all mankind if it had not been given to the Israelites until after they left Egypt?

So if these Israelites had already been given the sabbath commandment before Exodus, why is God testing them to see whether or not they will keep the sabbath commandment in this chapter if they should’ve already demonstrated whether they would keep it or not since it was supposedly already given to them before their exodus from Egypt?
Shabbat was given on the 7th day OF CREATION. Why do I have to keep repeating myself? You are starting to sound like that Hentenza person lol. I blocked them for being a broken record, do I need to block you too? Hentenza kept repeating no one gave them evidence when that was not true. They just did not like or accept it because it proved their narrative wrong. Yet they kept repeating it over and over and over thinking by repeating it again and again it would somehow be true LOL! At that point there is no longer a discussion.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Yeah I am not sure why they are having problems understanding this. All they keep saying is you have not proven anything LOL
God actually Himself, by His own words, words that proceeded out of His mouth we are to live by, addresses most of mans objections with His Sabbath plainly.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I thought we already went through that...Yeshua already explained that...why do I have to again? He did not say the Sabbath was made for Jews, not Jews for the Sabbath...did he....The Sabbath was given to Israel AS A SIGN. It was NOT created at Sinai. Get IT? The Sabbath at Sinai was given as a perpetual SIGN of the covenant with Israel. Circumcision was given as a SIGN of the covenant with Abraham. The rainbow was used as a SIGN of the covenant with Noahk.
No because your interpretation of that verse contradicts Nehemiah 9:13-14 that specifically says that God made the sabbath known to them and Ezekiel 20:12 says that God gave them the sabbath both of which took place after the Israelites left Egypt. Which means they didn’t previously know about it. You’re saying they already knew about it when no passage in scripture says that. Your interpretation of Mark 2:27 is contradicting Nehemiah 9:13-14.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Shabbat was given on the 7th day OF CREATION. Why do I have to keep repeating myself? You are starting to sound like that Hentenza person lol. I blocked them for being a broken record, do I need to block you too? Hentenza kept repeating no one gave them evidence when that was not true. They just did not like or accept it because it proved their narrative wrong. Yet they kept repeating it over and over and over thinking by repeating it again and again it would somehow be true LOL! At that point there is no longer a discussion.
Where does it say the sabbath was GIVEN at creation? You know that’s a lie. If it was given at creation God wouldn’t have give it to the Israelites and make it known to them thru Moses. You’re extrapolating what Jesus said in Mark 2:27. His point wasn’t about when the sabbath was made it was why the sabbath was made, for what purpose was the sabbath made. That’s what fits the discussion that was talking place when the Pharisees accused His disciples of breaking it. You can’t get around the fact that both Nehemiah and Ezekiel both say that the Israelites did not know about the sabbath before their exodus from Egypt.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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No because your interpretation of that verse contradicts Nehemiah 9:13-14 that specifically says that God made the sabbath known to them and Ezekiel 20:12 says that God gave them the sabbath both of which took place after the Israelites left Egypt. Which means they didn’t previously know about it. You’re saying they already knew about it when no passage in scripture says that. Your interpretation of Mark 2:27 is contradicting Nehemiah 9:13-14.
So how do you explain this before Mt Sinai

23 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” 24 So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. 25 Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”

Exo 16:28 And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? 29 See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
 
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