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Was this a sign ?

KateMay

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Hi to all,

I'm a 44 yr old female, non believer up til now, but have been open-minded and actively wanting to find a reason to believe in something, for over 25 years now.

I'm highly skeptical, scienfitically-minded, and the type of person who simply needs concrete evidence in order to believe something is real. I was raised by atheist parents.

I have a question for you, but first, you need the context :

In the past years, I've often simply asked "God" or "Jesus" to manifest himself in a way that I would qualify as believable, not attributable to coincidence or mere chance.

It would have to be a very obvious sign, that couldn't be random. And in the past, I don't recall having ever been "answered".
My interest waned, faded and returned some months or years later, when I felt particularly vulnerable or beaten down by life or depressed.

Last night was one of those times, and I asked again, for a clear, unambiguous sign that I would not be able to attribute to coincidence.
I asked that my husband (who is an atheist and THE least spiritual person I know), to say the word "Jesus" during the course of the upcoming evening.
Of course, if that happened, I would be absolutely shocked and would have a serious reason to start believing that something must be out there listening. After all, if there is a God and he did 'make me', then he knows that I need such proof in order to believe.

What happened is that during the evening, we were watching Harry Potter and, at one scene, (where Ginny comes downstairs to find Harry in her house unexpectedly and backs away looking petrified and scary), my husband said "haha she looks like the AntiChrist".

At which point I immediately turned to him with disbelief, as he said the word "Christ" and that is extraordinarily unlikely with him !

BUT my problem is that he said it with the negative connotation of the devil, the antichrist, and that he didn't use the exact word "Jesus" which I'd asked for.

So this brings me to my question : was this the sign I asked for ? Can it be 'disguised' like this, and still be a sign ? Even with the negative connotation of the AntiChrist ??
I don't know what to make of it, and I was hoping you could help me with that.

Thanks a lot,
Kate
 

NBB

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Well i suggest that if he never mentions at all Christ or anything related to the bible, Believe a bit more then :)
maybe next time will be more clear? Keep looking, if i could transfer thoughts or something, i could tell you Jesus can be very real in the life of people.

The bible says "search and you will find, knock and God will answer"
 
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KateMay

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Well i suggest that if he never mentions at all Christ or anything related to the bible, Believe a bit more then :)
maybe next time will be more clear? Keep looking, if i could transfer thoughts or something, i could tell you Jesus can be very real in the life of people.
Thanks for your response.
 
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Daniel86

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Sometimes God's way isn't our way. Sometimes we end up down a path we didn't hope for, but it turns out to be better than we could ever have imagined. In that sense, I think it was a sign. It wasn't the exact sign you asked for, but it was still a sign, if your husband doesn't usually say things like that.

I have a story, I really hope it helps. Twenty years ago or so, my Aunt and Uncle were talking about moving to another state. My uncle was the one who really wanted to, and my Aunt didn't but didn't want to hold him back. But one day, she was in a woman's prayer meeting, and she asked for them to pray that God would send an angel to tell him they shouldn't go. For context, I don't think she meant that he would see or talk to the angel (I don't think) but just that something would happen to change his mind.

A couple days later, she walked in the living room, and he was laying on the couch, looking at the ceiling.

She said, "What are you doing?" And he said, "Looking at the angel.

They had some kind of an angel decoration that you could see the reflection (Or something) on the ceiling. My Aunt didn't say a word. And then my uncle said "....I've been thinking maybe we shouldn't move...."

That wasn't what my Aunt had in mind when she prayed, yet, he saw an angel, and it changed his mind.

I hope that helps.
 
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Maria Billingsley

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Hi to all,

I'm a 44 yr old female, non believer up til now, but have been open-minded and actively wanting to find a reason to believe in something, for over 25 years now.

I'm highly skeptical, scienfitically-minded, and the type of person who simply needs concrete evidence in order to believe something is real. I was raised by atheist parents.

I have a question for you, but first, you need the context :

In the past years, I've often simply asked "God" or "Jesus" to manifest himself in a way that I would qualify as believable, not attributable to coincidence or mere chance.

It would have to be a very obvious sign, that couldn't be random. And in the past, I don't recall having ever been "answered".
My interest waned, faded and returned some months or years later, when I felt particularly vulnerable or beaten down by life or depressed.

Last night was one of those times, and I asked again, for a clear, unambiguous sign that I would not be able to attribute to coincidence.
I asked that my husband (who is an atheist and THE least spiritual person I know), to say the word "Jesus" during the course of the upcoming evening.
Of course, if that happened, I would be absolutely shocked and would have a serious reason to start believing that something must be out there listening. After all, if there is a God and he did 'make me', then he knows that I need such proof in order to believe.

What happened is that during the evening, we were watching Harry Potter and, at one scene, (where Ginny comes downstairs to find Harry in her house unexpectedly and backs away looking petrified and scary), my husband said "haha she looks like the AntiChrist".

At which point I immediately turned to him with disbelief, as he said the word "Christ" and that is extraordinarily unlikely with him !

BUT my problem is that he said it with the negative connotation of the devil, the antichrist, and that he didn't use the exact word "Jesus" which I'd asked for.

So this brings me to my question : was this the sign I asked for ? Can it be 'disguised' like this, and still be a sign ? Even with the negative connotation of the AntiChrist ??
I don't know what to make of it, and I was hoping you could help me with that.

Thanks a lot,
Kate
Welcome to CF!
Lets say it is the sign you seek. What would be your next step? Another sign? You see, this type of testing may not be the best approach for a science- minded person. Would it not be best for God to reveal Himself in your comfort zone, through science? After all, God created science for humanity so we could unveil his creation. From DNA to a final physical form, all of these innerworkings are for us to discover and use for our advancement. You can start with the first chapter of Genesis. You will notice it's simplicity, but if you keep an open mind , you will suddenly read scientific clues being revealed. For example, man made from dust is in Genesis. Though poetic, it has been scientifically proven. There are many , many , many other examples to explore.

I do hope you take my advice on this.It would be a fun and exhilarating venture for you. Perhaps you will become a christian through your own discovery.

As He once said
" Seek and ye shall find".

Be blessed
 
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KateMay

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Welcome to CF!
Lets say it is the sign you seek. What would be your next step? Another sign? You see, this type of testing may not be the best approach for a science- minded person. Would it not be best for God to reveal Himself in your comfort zone, through science? After all, God created science for humanity so we could unveil his creation. From DNA to a final physical form, all of these innerworkings are for us to discover and use for our advancement. You can start with the first chapter of Genesis. You will notice it's simplicity, but if you keep an open mind , you will suddenly read scientific clues being revealed. For example, man made from dust is in Genesis. Though poetic, it has been scientifically proven. There are many , many , many other examples to explore.

I do hope you take my advice on this.It would be a fun and exhilarating venture for you. Perhaps you will become a christian through your own discovery.

As He once said
" Seek and ye shall find".

Be blessed
If it was the sign I sought, I had the resolve to trust it and start exploring the Bible. Not wait, nor ask, for another sign necessarily. I didn't say that was my approach.
I asked for one sign, unequivocal, unambiguous and unattributable to coincidence, just once. That's what I wanted in order to move to the next step : believing enough to explore Christianity.
Without that clear sign, I simply couldn't bring myself to seriously consider what the Bible says (I read parts of it, of which Genesis).
 
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Hentenza

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Hi to all,

I'm a 44 yr old female, non believer up til now, but have been open-minded and actively wanting to find a reason to believe in something, for over 25 years now.

I'm highly skeptical, scienfitically-minded, and the type of person who simply needs concrete evidence in order to believe something is real. I was raised by atheist parents.

I have a question for you, but first, you need the context :

In the past years, I've often simply asked "God" or "Jesus" to manifest himself in a way that I would qualify as believable, not attributable to coincidence or mere chance.

It would have to be a very obvious sign, that couldn't be random. And in the past, I don't recall having ever been "answered".
My interest waned, faded and returned some months or years later, when I felt particularly vulnerable or beaten down by life or depressed.

Last night was one of those times, and I asked again, for a clear, unambiguous sign that I would not be able to attribute to coincidence.
I asked that my husband (who is an atheist and THE least spiritual person I know), to say the word "Jesus" during the course of the upcoming evening.
Of course, if that happened, I would be absolutely shocked and would have a serious reason to start believing that something must be out there listening. After all, if there is a God and he did 'make me', then he knows that I need such proof in order to believe.

What happened is that during the evening, we were watching Harry Potter and, at one scene, (where Ginny comes downstairs to find Harry in her house unexpectedly and backs away looking petrified and scary), my husband said "haha she looks like the AntiChrist".

At which point I immediately turned to him with disbelief, as he said the word "Christ" and that is extraordinarily unlikely with him !

BUT my problem is that he said it with the negative connotation of the devil, the antichrist, and that he didn't use the exact word "Jesus" which I'd asked for.

So this brings me to my question : was this the sign I asked for ? Can it be 'disguised' like this, and still be a sign ? Even with the negative connotation of the AntiChrist ??
I don't know what to make of it, and I was hoping you could help me with that.

Thanks a lot,
Kate
Hi Kate,

I was just like you. I’m an engineer and a historian. About 30 years ago I was very happy being an agnostic but pregressively I felt the need to know. Being as curious as I have always been I started studying and seeking answers. Come to find out later through my studies that this was actually the sign. And here I am.

My advise to you is just keep seeking and studying.

Blessing to you and yours.
 
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Delvianna

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The fact that you're questioning it, doesn't fall into the "unequivocal" category in my opinion. Note though, God doesn't force people to say something. So I wouldn't ask God to force someone to say "Jesus" as your sign. I once said to my husband to just ask God to show himself to you in a way you will recognize. And the situation arose when he got a pulmonary embolism and was rushed to the hospital. He lived but was practicing Asatru and in that religion, you have to give something in order to get. He had nothing to give as he was laying in the hospital bed but in pain. 3 times he asked God (and he specifically said Christian God) to take away his pain. He asked after he asked his own gods which did nothing, but all 3 times his pain was taken away instantly and for a while. That was enough proof for him which started him on the journey.

God absolutely is there and he wants this to be personal for you, not abstract. Personal involvement makes faith bloom. Abstract options like your husband saying "Jesus" might eventually lead you to 2nd guess. He knows what will work and what doesn't but make this between just you and Him.
 
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d taylor

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No, I do not think so.

The witness about Jesus has been given The Bible is it. If a person can not believe the words of The Bible, then why would they believe other witnesses.
 
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Zceptre

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Oh boy are you in my territory... Mr Skeptic here, former doubting Thomas (non-willfully), and lifelong disbeliever in "coincidences." I was a believer (with weak faith in areas I unpleasantly admit), but I had a believing problem subconsciously. So not the same, but somewhat the same in ways.

What happened is that during the evening, we were watching Harry Potter and, at one scene, (where Ginny comes downstairs to find Harry in her house unexpectedly and backs away looking petrified and scary), my husband said "haha she looks like the AntiChrist".

At which point I immediately turned to him with disbelief, as he said the word "Christ" and that is extraordinarily unlikely with him !

How likely do you think? I mean sure it could happen any specific "time" but then directly following your request, do you, in your heart of hearts, and even intellectually, really believe that this actually just happened by sheer "chance?" (I'm going to guess a giant N.O. Or at least I will just hope that's the conclusion)

I've been asking God questions since I was 17 of this nature and I'm 40 now (Not exactly the same, but similar in nature). God promises in Matthew 7:7 and Matthew 7:8 to answer if we ask, that He will show us if we seek, and He will open the door if we knock. What I have found is that if we are diligent and we exercise faith (or trust in God's promise) and continue asking, continue seeking, and continue knocking then we eventually (at His discretion) get an answer, have things revealed to us, and someone (surprise: guess who) shows up to open the door.

Jeremiah 29:13 - And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.

Another promise, more specifically, to reveal Himself to those who will search for Him. There is a condition attached, and it is to diligently search and seek to find Him.

I have been digging for "evidence" and "proof" of God since age 17 also, and I'm extremely confident God does not want to be "scientifically" proven to anyone. I truly see it as a rule He has established that no one can be forced against their will by way of power, persuasion, or evidence, but that He wants them to go to Him, speak to Him, hear from Him, seek Him, get to know Him, and fall in love with Him and for us to be grateful for the life He gave us and to live with Him in our hearts.

With 20 years under my belt of evidence and dispelled lies that don't hinder my faith any longer, the strongest evidence for God I have to this very day is answered prayers, which is essentially what you experienced. The more we practice engaging with God in conversation and acting like He is there (like He says He is...), the more interaction He has to respond back to us and the more He does so. Many of my greatest mentors over the course of my life have advised people to keep a prayer book, or a record of prayers and requests. At least one of them even suggests to always use an ink pen so you can't change the records and this is to reveal our short memory spans where we forget all the answers to prayers we have received. I must admit, I have not done this, but I can recall so many mentally I simply know I would be shocked if I had done so and could recall them all.

God is relational, and wants relationships. He does not want to be a scientifically proven experiment or an atm or worse... a slot machine with us dumping prayers into the "cosmic wishing well" hoping we hit the jackpot or we get an answer that rings our bell. We got our desire to be loved from Him, and He wants to be loved and respected in that place, not from fear (1 John 4:8 - 1 John 4:19). He could easily terrify everyone into believing and I can attest to this knowing too much about dark things. Satan actually does this frightening tactic and it is his method of acquiring followers, not God's way.

You got the sign from speaking directly to God yourself. I say you keep doing that since it worked. He obviously done it to show you He is there and that He wants you to seek Him more. Someone gave me an acronym years ago that might help. PUSH - Pray Until Something Happens. For me, it has made what seemed to be unanswered prayers into maybe delayed but answered prayers. Often it seemed God was "late" in answering, yet God is never late as I have learned through this. The more you interact with Him, the more He will do what He promised in His Word since He cannot lie.

God is a Father though, so He responds to us how He sees fit, not how we see fit. He often has went out of His way (in my opinion) to meet me much more than half-way... it was more like 90-10 (Or even 97-3 maybe!). When I believed and kept asking, He showed up. When I was in the most need, He showed up. A few times I felt like giving up on things, He wouldn't let me, and again He showed up.

I've asked for a lot of "signs" and got a lot of cool personal revelations. I can't show them to other people. But for me it changed my life and how I see Him and the idea that He is "far away in the sky on His throne." Well He is, but He is also literally in the room with me, and living inside me, and really loves me and has (as far as I'm concerned) proven it. (God also states the cross is proof of His love for us in Romans 5:8 - great verse)

Matthew 12:39 says...
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

But I have found that (or it seems to me) He isn't denying them a sign because they want to know He is God the Son, but that they are demanding a sign and absolutely not from a place of humility. I have received tons of signs that I just know are Him. Things like you described and even more elaborate ordeals. I certainly was not demanding them! But I was believing He would respond and I didn't give up in seeking. I trusted He would answer and kept asking.

The more we see (that is, when we choose to trust His promises) the more we see as a result from choosing to trust Him and engage or interact with Him more. When we act on trusting Him, then He shows us we can trust Him, that He cares, that He is there.

This is also not at all what I had planned to write when I started typing. Just what came out after I started. I hope it helps and saying a prayer for you for more experiences with Him. God bless you.
 
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DragonFox91

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A sign is obvious. When you're driving, they don't make signs tiny so you can't see them. When God speaks & puts a sign up, you know it.

A sign from him doesn't come masked, he wants to reveal himself.
 
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You and I have a few things in common. Just a couple of years older than you (47), I am skeptically-minded, was raised by atheist parents, and was an atheist myself until I was 33 years old. I have always loved philosophy and science, and have since added theology to my passions.

As for your question, I would like to answer with a question of my own:
  • Why do you need a sign to start exploring the Bible?
 
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KateMay

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You and I have a few things in common. Just a couple of years older than you (47), I am skeptically-minded, was raised by atheist parents, and was an atheist myself until I was 33 years old. I have always loved philosophy and science, and have since added theology to my passions.

As for your question, I would like to answer with a question of my own:
  • Why do you need a sign to start exploring the Bible?
I don't. I started reading it, as mentionned, and found its contents so utterly unbelievable (literally) that I couldn't really keep reading it without feeling ridiculous.
These are the issues I contend with, when facing the question of faith.
I'm very sorry, but I do not believe the earth was created like it says in Genesis, nor that man was made that way either.. there are way too many things that seem down right silly in that book.
That's why a concrete sign from the higher power itself, is to me the only real way I can start to believe there is something out there, but without necessarily believing the Bible and its contents verbatum.
 
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peter2

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Christmas teaches believers God announces Himself in different ways :

Zachariah, that failed to believe, but that God made become dumb (may be his voice was no longer worthy to be heard)
Mary that believed immediatly after the angel's annunciation, and she became his mother
Joseph that believed through dream, and he became his father
Wise men, that believed in stars language, were led through stars
Shepherds that have simple sensibility were informed by angels

Why couldn't God use incredulous language with incredulous people ?
 
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Bob Crowley

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I'll tell you my story as it is a bit like yours, although my parents weren't out and out atheist. Having said that, my father definitely lost his Catholic faith.

But first be a bit wary of asking for "signs". Christ rebuked the Pharisees and the Saducees when they demanded a "sign".

Matthew 16:4 NIV "A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away."

I'm not having a go at you, but God might expect you to take a step in His direction as well. We're fond of quoting the prodigal son as evidence of God's love and forgiveness, but it was the prodigal son who made the first move to go back to his father, not the other way around.

If you don't know the story of the prodigal son (or daughter for that matter), you can read it online in the Bible at Luke 15:11-32.

In my own case I became Christian when I was at a low ebb - going through a divorce, out of work and losing the home I'd been trying to pay off. I also had the flu. Now that was September / October 1982 when the Commonwealth Games were on in Brisbane (Australia). I don't normally watch sport but since I had the flu I couldn't do much else so I watched some of the Games (I'll play sport but I don't watch it).

I was also thinking "There's got to be more to life than this!!" I was in a situation similar to you in that I was feeling "... particularly vulnerable or beaten down by life or depressed".

But as I sat there in front of the TV I kept getting this image of a local Presbyterian church where I'd had some Sunday School years before when I was a kid. It was very persistent, day after day, and in the end I decided I'd better go to this church since I couldn't get rid of this nagging "vision".

A few weeks later I made a commitment and become a Christian. The day I walked home I felt like I was "walking on air", which another chap said was also his experience but some years earlier in a different church.

A year or so later I was at a caravan park at the back of the Sunshine Coast (north of Brisbane) volunteering for a group called Scripture Union. They'd run Christmas programs for kids in the caravan park. It gave the parents a bit of a break as well.

I was supposed to be one of the "leaders" but I was a new Christian, out of my depth in this uncomfortable Christian culture, going through the divorce, and had been chewed out by the boss before I went on leave. So I was feeling narky. I remember thinking to myself "How do I know this (Christianity) is all real, and not just a psychological prop?"

Anyway one afternoon we were sitting in a circle for our own camp leaders Bible study when the camp supervisor intoned the words "... a man after my own heart.." referrring to King David.

As he did so this "double whammy" hit me - it was like a strong breath going through me in waves from head to foot. I got such a shock I nearly fell off the seat. I'd been contacted!

But nobody else knew. God remained hidden and He usually does. In short most of the time we're cast back on faith.

The same thing happened twice more during 1984 when I was in church. This time it was the pastor speaking, and I still rememer the three phrases which were highlighted to this day nearly 42 years later.

Now I had to make a move first on both occasions - I had to go to the old Presbyterian Church where I'd had some Sunday School, and then a year or so later attend the Scripture Union event even though I felt uneasy about it (giving up a week or so of my holidays to do so). Only then did God make His presence unmistakeable. To be honest I don't always like God, but ever since the "double whammy" at Christmas 1983, I have been uable to deny His presence. He's there all right!

Now possibly you've had no church experience at all, which puts you at a disadvantage, although at least as an atheist you won't be coming in with any of the ridiculous Protestant / Catholic garbage that is a feature of some Christians and denominations.

But I think God might expect you to make the first step, or two or three steps, and then He might deign to give you some form of "Sign". This is the Almighty you're asking for a favour - the God who created the universe from nothing.

I'd suggest you take the risk of attending a local church to begin with, or maybe get involved in a charity so you're doing something for others. In the case of the church just sit down the back somewhere and listen. It will be strange at first, but you have to make a start somewhere.

Also be aware that if you do become a Christian, you may find some opposition from your atheist husband. But then you can always pray that he joins you.

All the best whatever you decide to do.
 
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KateMay

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I'll tell you my story as it is a bit like yours, although my parents weren't out and out atheist. Having said that, my father definitely lost his Catholic faith.

But first be a bit wary of asking for "signs". Christ rebuked the Pharisees and the Saducees when they demanded a "sign".

Matthew 16:4 NIV "A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah.” Jesus then left them and went away."

I'm not having a go at you, but God might expect you to take a step in His direction as well. We're fond of quoting the prodigal son as evidence of God's love and forgiveness, but it was the prodigal son who made the first move to go back to his father, not the other way around.

If you don't know the story of the prodigal son (or daughter for that matter), you can read it online in the Bible at Luke 15:11-32.

In my own case I became Christian when I was at a low ebb - going through a divorce, out of work and losing the home I'd been trying to pay off. I also had the flu. Now that was September / October 1982 when the Commonwealth Games were on in Brisbane (Australia). I don't normally watch sport but since I had the flu I couldn't do much else so I watched some of the Games (I'll play sport but I don't watch it).

I was also thinking "There's got to be more to life than this!!" I was in a situation similar to you in that I was feeling "... particularly vulnerable or beaten down by life or depressed".

But as I sat there in front of the TV I kept getting this image of a local Presbyterian church where I'd had some Sunday School years before when I was a kid. It was very persistent, day after day, and in the end I decided I'd better go to this church since I couldn't get rid of this nagging "vision".

A few weeks later I made a commitment and become a Christian. The day I walked home I felt like I was "walking on air", which another chap said was also his experience but some years earlier in a different church.

A year or so later I was at a caravan park at the back of the Sunshine Coast (north of Brisbane) volunteering for a group called Scripture Union. They'd run Christmas programs for kids in the caravan park. It gave the parents a bit of a break as well.

I was supposed to be one of the "leaders" but I was a new Christian, out of my depth in this uncomfortable Christian culture, going through the divorce, and had been chewed out by the boss before I went on leave. So I was feeling narky. I remember thinking to myself "How do I know this (Christianity) is all real, and not just a psychological prop?"

Anyway one afternoon we were sitting in a circle for our own camp leaders Bible study when the camp supervisor intoned the words "... a man after my own heart.." referrring to King David.

As he did so this "double whammy" hit me - it was like a strong breath going through me in waves from head to foot. I got such a shock I nearly fell off the seat. I'd been contacted!

But nobody else knew. God remained hidden and He usually does. In short most of the time we're cast back on faith.

The same thing happened twice more during 1984 when I was in church. This time it was the pastor speaking, and I still rememer the three phrases which were highlighted to this day nearly 42 years later.

Now I had to make a move first on both occasions - I had to go to the old Presbyterian Church where I'd had some Sunday School, and then a year or so later attend the Scripture Union event even though I felt uneasy about it (giving up a week or so of my holidays to do so). Only then did God make His presence unmistakeable. To be honest I don't always like God, but ever since the "double whammy" at Christmas 1983, I have been uable to deny His presence. He's there all right!

Now possibly you've had no church experience at all, which puts you at a disadvantage, although at least as an atheist you won't be coming in with any of the ridiculous Protestant / Catholic garbage that is a feature of some Christians and denominations.

But I think God might expect you to make the first step, or two or three steps, and then He might deign to give you some form of "Sign". This is the Almighy you're asking for a favour - the God who created the universe from nothing.

I'd suggest you take the risk of attending a local church to begin with, or maybe get involved in a charity so you're doing something for others. In the case of the church just sit down the back somewhere and listen. It will be strange at first, but you have to make a start somewhere.

Also be aware that if you do become a Christian, you may find some opposition from your atheist husband. But then you can always pray that he joins you.

All the best whatever you decide to do.
amazing recount and share ! Thanks for that. Taking it all in. x
 
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