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The Sabbath, Worship and the End Time

Bob S

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I would like to know why some posters think because God gave the Torah to one nation, Israel, that all nations are subject to it?

Did Adam's children sin because they married their siblings? Yet we find God in Lev 18 pronouncing such an act as sin. Did Adam's children sin because of the requirements found in Lev 18?
 
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Hentenza

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I would like to know why some posters think because God gave the Torah to one nation, Israel, that all nations are subject to it?

Did Adam's children sin because they married their siblings? Yet we find God in Lev 18 pronouncing such an act as sin. Did Adam's children sin because of the requirements found in Lev 18?
Before Moses there was providential law (that sense of right and wrong that most are born with because God is always in charge), the Noahic laws, and the Abraham covenant. There never was a law to keep the sabbath so the sabbath was never kept until Moses.

Then the Mosaic law was given to Israel in the 15th century BCE and Moses wrote the Torah about the same time. The Mosaic law built on the providential law, the Noahic law and the Abrahamic covenant. No one had the Mosaic law or the Torah prior to Moses, therefore, no one before Moses had read Genesis and the story of creation including God resting on the seventh day.

Then the law was given to Israel and only Israel. The gentiles mentioned in the OT are those who dwelt with Israel and converted to Judaism. There is no instance in the OT or NT where the Mosaic law was given to the gentiles which is why the council of Jerusalem determined that the gentiles should not be “burdened” with converting to Judaism.

Anyone who claims otherwise is ignoring historical and cultural context and just reading their pet doctrines into scripture.
 
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Delvianna

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I would like to know why some posters think because God gave the Torah to one nation, Israel, that all nations are subject to it?
Being the "light of the world"'s (Isaiah 42:6, Isaiah 49:6, Isaiah 60:1-3) point was to spread information about God and what was expected. This is why the "light of the world" was swapped to the gentiles because Israel mostly rejected Jesus. So yes, the entire world is subject to the Torah. The Jews were the chosen group to teach the world about God and now its the gentiles who are required to teach the world.

Did Adam's children sin because they married their siblings? Yet we find God in Lev 18 pronouncing such an act as sin. Did Adam's children sin because of the requirements found in Lev 18?
Adam’s children didn’t sin because they had no other choice to keep humanity going. The rules in Leviticus 18 weren’t meant for them, they came later, once people could actually follow them. The law shows what is right and wrong, but it doesn’t punish things that were necessary at the beginning. But that doesn't mean God's moral laws like the 10 commandments didn't exist as Genesis 26:5 says:

“Abraham obeyed me faithfully, and he followed my requirements, my commands, my decrees, and my laws.”
 
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BNR32FAN

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Only if one is not part of mankind can disregard what Jesus said Mat2:27. I am part of mankind and I know I can't bless or sanctify myself, I need God. Eze20:12 Eze20:20 just like the Israelites who came before us, didn't think they needed His either and it left them outside the promise land Eze20:15-16. God said something similar at His Second Coming as well Isa66:17

If you do not need to do what God says is doing righteousness and justice Isa56:1-2 and what He said is made for us Mark2:27 or no need to live by, His every Word Mat 4:4 than, by all means do something different.

God does not change He tells us Himself, why all of the Bible is God's Word, not just the sections we like. Jesus never taught to live by only the NT and the NC still has God's laws, just written on the New Covenant believers heart. Heb8:10 Remembering to keep what our Father told us to.
What was the context of Jesus making that statement? Was His point IN THAT DISCUSSION that the sabbath was made for both Jews and Gentiles or was it that the sabbath was made as something to help man, not as something to hinder man?
 
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BNR32FAN

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I would like to know why some posters think because God gave the Torah to one nation, Israel, that all nations are subject to it?

Did Adam's children sin because they married their siblings? Yet we find God in Lev 18 pronouncing such an act as sin. Did Adam's children sin because of the requirements found in Lev 18?
“Then You came down on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses.”
‭‭Nehemiah‬ ‭9‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

So I took them out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. I gave them My statutes and informed them of My ordinances, by which, if a man observes them, he will live. Also I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭20‬:‭10‬-‭12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Oh wait, I heard the sabbath commandment was given at creation for all mankind? I’m just curious, why is it that every time God rebuked the Israelites He mentions that they profaned His sabbath but whenever He rebukes the Gentiles He never once mentions them profaning His sabbath? Were the Gentiles failing in every other aspect but keeping the sabbath perfectly while worshipping idols?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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What was the context of Jesus making that statement? Was His point IN THAT DISCUSSION that the sabbath was made for both Jews and Gentiles or was it that the sabbath was made as something to help man, not as something to hinder man?
Why would spending time with God hinder man? That's what the Sabbath is about spending sanctified time with God, resting from our work and labors- to honor Him Isa 58:13 Exo20:8-11 So He can bless Isa 56:2 and sanctify man Eze20:12 because we can't do this ourselves and this hinders mankind by how?
 
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Hentenza

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Why would spending time with God hinder man? That's what the Sabbath is about spending sanctified time with God, resting from our work and labors- to honor Him Isa 58:13 Exo20:8-11 So He can bless Isa 56:2 and sanctify man Eze20:12 because we can't do this ourselves and this hinders mankind by how?
How can spending time with God everyday including Sunday hinder man?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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How can spending time with God everyday including Sunday hinder man?
It doesn't. But God never blessed or sanctified any other day except for the seventh day and He also made it one of His commandments, so it was never just a suggestion. The 4th commandment wasn't just the Sabbath commandment, it was the way God commanded how to keep all days. Exo20:8-9 He knows what's best.
 
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Hentenza

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It doesn't. But God never blessed or sanctified any other day except for the seventh day and He also made it one of His commandments, so it was never just a suggestion. The 4th commandment wasn't just the Sabbath commandment, it was the way God commanded how to keep all days. Exo20:8-9 He knows what's best.
Nah. No one knew about the Jewish Sabbath before Moses and there is no verse in the new covenant that requires the Christian to keep the Jewish sabbath. I‘m sure God will take my daily worship and resting on Sunday just fine.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Why would spending time with God hinder man? That's what the Sabbath is about spending sanctified time with God, resting from our work and labors- to honor Him Isa 58:13 Exo20:8-11 So He can bless Isa 56:2 and sanctify man Eze20:12 because we can't do this ourselves and this hinders mankind by how?
Well for one it did carry the death penalty with it, so there’s that, not to mention that it did also result in condemnation. Thankfully it’s been removed now and we are free to worship on any day which removed both the death penalty and condemnation. See how much more glorious the New Covenant is over the old one?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Well for one it did carry the death penalty with it, so there’s that, not to mention that it did also result in condemnation. Thankfully it’s been removed now and we are free to worship on any day which removed both the death penalty and condemnation. See how much more glorious the New Covenant is over the old one?
Committing adultery and murder came with the same penalty- apparently God placed keeping the Sabbath in a very high standard, right next to the commandment to only worship Him, all written by God spoken by God. Trying to dis-attach one of God's commandments, that He placed in a unit, as to say well, this one doesn;t belong there is taking liberties that only belong to God.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Committing adultery and murder came with the same penalty- apparently God placed keeping the Sabbath in a very high standard, right next to the commandment to only worship Him, all written by God spoken by God. Trying to dis-attach one of God's commandments, that He placed in a unit, as to say well, this one doesn;t belong there is taking liberties that only belong to God.
Unless God appointed a prophet to tell everyone that they are no longer obligated to keep the sabbath. So yeah if He hadn’t done that you’d be exactly right, except He did do exactly that.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Unless God appointed a prophet to tell everyone that they are no longer obligated to keep the sabbath. So yeah if He hadn’t done that you’d be exactly right, except He did do exactly that.
All we have to do is read our Bibles its all throughout the entire Bible from the beginning Exo20:11 Gen 2:1-3 to the end Isa66:22-23 and everywhere in between. It’s no different than any of the other commandment God placed in this unit, we would have no idea to worship the God of Creation Exo20:11 Rev 14:7 had the Bible not told us so. The Bible is the light to our path Psa 119:105 following what Jesus told us to live by Mat4:4 will only lead us on that narrow path back to Him. Rev 22:14
 
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BNR32FAN

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All we have to do is read our Bibles its all throughout the entire Bible from the beginning Exo20:11 Gen 2:1-3 to the end Isa66:22-23 and everywhere in between. It’s no different than any of the other commandment God placed in this unit, we would have no idea to worship the God of Creation Exo20:11 Rev 14:7 had the Bible not told us so. The Bible is the light to our path Psa 119:105 following what Jesus told us to live by Mat4:4 will only lead us on that narrow path back to Him. Rev 22:14
No it’s people making claims that the Bible teaches things that it doesn’t actually teach because I’ve read the Bible several times which is why I can say with full confidence that no commandment to keep the sabbath was ever given before Mt Sinai. I can also say with full confidence that the Bible doesn’t record anyone ever keeping the sabbath before Mt Sinai. And Exodus 16 doesn’t count because they were only told not to collect manna on the 7th day, they weren’t told to rest or to refrain from any work or to congregate in Exodus 16 or anywhere in the Bible before Exodus 20. That’s why we don’t see God rebuking anyone for not keeping the sabbath before Mt Sinai and afterwards God mentions the Israelites profaning His sabbaths numerous when He rebuked them and never not once does He mention anyone profaning the sabbath when He was rebuking Gentiles who didn’t keep it. And on top of all this nowhere is the sabbath commanded to be kept anywhere in the New Testament even though it was written primarily by Jews. They mentioned all the other 9 commandments but not the sabbath. Then you have Paul, a Jew, wrote Colossians 2:16 abolishing the yearly, monthly, and weekly sabbaths along with the dietary laws. So no, the Bible doesn’t actually support the idea of sabbath keeping except for after Mt Sinai and before Christ’s resurrection, if it actually did we wouldn’t be having this conversation and we wouldn’t have 98% of Christianity rejecting it. Ironically it’s the Bible that says we’re not obligated to observe the sabbath anymore, at least for those of us who read it without any preconceived notions and accept it for what is actually written without resorting to a bunch of scriptural acrobatics to try to make it say something that we prefer it to say. Unfortunately about 2% of Christians got duped and refuse to admit it.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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No it’s people making claims that the Bible teaches things that it doesn’t actually teach because I’ve read the Bible several times which is why I can say with full confidence that no commandment to keep the sabbath was ever given before Mt Sinai. I can also say with full confidence that the Bible doesn’t record anyone ever keeping the sabbath before Mt Sinai. And Exodus 16 doesn’t count because they were only told not to collect manna on the 7th day, they weren’t told to rest or to refrain from any work or to congregate in Exodus 16 or anywhere in the Bible before Exodus 20.
It counted to God.

Exo 16: 23 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” 24 So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. 25 Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. 26 Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”

27 Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. 28 And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws?

The Sabbath was holy and a commandment way before it was codified at Mt Sinai because God made the Sabbath day holy at Creation. Gen2:1-3 Exo20:11 Only God can sanctify a day, only God can sanctify mankind. He- God- what the entire Bible is about, connected both to the seventh day Sabbath.

That’s why we don’t see God rebuking anyone for not keeping the sabbath before Mt Sinai and afterwards God mentions the Israelites profaning His sabbaths numerous when He rebuked them and never not once does He mention anyone profaning the sabbath when He was rebuking Gentiles who didn’t keep it. And on top of all this nowhere is the sabbath commanded to be kept anywhere in the New Testament even though it was written primarily by Jews. They mentioned all the other 9 commandments but not the sabbath. Then you have Paul, a Jew, wrote Colossians 2:16 abolishing the yearly, monthly, and weekly sabbaths along with the dietary laws. So no, the Bible doesn’t actually support the idea of sabbath keeping except for after Mt Sinai and before Christ’s resurrection, if it actually did we wouldn’t be having this conversation and we wouldn’t have 98% of Christianity rejecting it. Ironically it’s the Bible that says we’re not obligated to observe the sabbath anymore, at least for those of us who read it without any preconceived notions and accept it for what is actually written without resorting to a bunch of scriptural acrobatics to try to make it say something that we prefer it to say. Unfortunately about 2% of Christians got duped and refuse to admit it.
Jesus said the Sabbath was made for mankind. Mark2:27 So anyone who is part of mankind the Sabbath is made for them. That started with Adam. We can always choose to reject this. Because one does, does not mean everyone else did.

The ones being duped is believing that God only wants us to keep 9 commandments when He wrote and spoke Ten Deut4:13 Exo34:28 and ironically the one commandment that man wants us to forget is the one commandment God said, Remember, we have to have room for faith.

The fact that Jesus who is our example 1John2:6 and the apostles kept the Sabbath should tell us something but people want to believe what they want to believe. Like when the Scripture says keep the commandments of God for God's people it does not include the one commandment God said Remember that is holy and blessed by God. Jesus didn't really mean for us, not to break the least of these commandments and it excluded the 4th commandment (despite Him in His own words saying it would not end Mat24:20-30) or that He didn't really mean to actually live by what God said Mat4:4 but follow what man does instead even if it comes without the power of His sanctification and blessings.

The bible was written in a way to let man who wants to follow Him has everything they need to know, but it also gives room to do something else as well and when doing even has warnings such as 2Peter3:16 Pro3:5-6 Pro30:5-6 Eze20:15-16 Heb4:11 Mar7:7-13 Mat15:3-14. The biggest dupe is not believing that the Bible is one book, not two. That God loves us more, than those who disobeyed Him that came before us. The entire Bible is about God. When the God of the Bible reveals His own commandments that He wrote and He spoke and we only believe in 9 of them because everyone else is doing something different, we are making a decision even if we don't realize it. God's people has always been a remnant and God's remnant people have always kept God's commandments, His version, not mans Ecc12:13-14 Rev12:17 Rev14:12 Rev22:14. One God, one people Eze20:20.

God said He does not change, He made Creation part of His perfect plan before sin that included the Sabbath Exo20:11 Gen2:1-3 He is restoring everything back for His faithful including the tree of life Rev22:14 and Sabbath worship for all flesh, (that sadly was hijacked to another day Dan7:25), because it was never a Jewish thing but a people of God thing Isa 56:6-7 Heb4:9NIV Isa66:23 Eze20:12 Eze20:20 on the only day in the entire Bible God blessed and sanctified and claimed as His, the holy day of the LORD Isa58:13
 
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Bob S

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Being the "light of the world"'s (Isaiah 42:6, Isaiah 49:6, Isaiah 60:1-3) point was to spread information about God and what was expected. This is why the "light of the world" was swapped to the gentiles because Israel mostly rejected Jesus. So yes, the entire world is subject to the Torah. The Jews were the chosen group to teach the world about God and now its the gentiles who are required to teach the world.
Do you believe God knows the end from the beginning? I do. God knew that Israel would never be a beacon to the remainder of the World's population. If the Sabbath was to be spread to all it would have to be done by Him. Many of the verses found in Isaiah have to be taken with a grain of salt. For instance, Is 65 tells us the righteous will live to be over 100. Those born will not die and the unrighteous will not live to be 100. Here, read it for yourself:
“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,

nor will they come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.
20 “Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach[a] a hundred
will be considered accursed.


“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind. Yet we see in Is 66:24 And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

Which is it Delvianna? will we not remember, or will we be reminded every week of the result of sinful man? Was God really depending on Israel to be a beacon of the "Sabbath truth" as declared by Isaiah.

How can people teach others to keep something they themselves cannot keep?



Adam’s children didn’t sin because they had no other choice to keep humanity going.
So, according to you, the commandment was there, but because of the circumstance, it was ignored, and God didn't hold them responsible. Does that make any sense?
The rules in Leviticus 18 weren’t meant for them, they came later, once people could actually follow them.
What part of the law, revealed at Sinai, were they responsible for observing?
The law shows what is right and wrong, but it doesn’t punish things that were necessary at the beginning. But that doesn't mean God's moral laws like the 10 commandments didn't exist as Genesis 26:5 says:
5 because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions.”Gen26:5

Where do you see anything in that verse that would instruct Abraham to observe the Sabbath? Abe was given explicit instructions, but nothing about the Sabbath. Wouldn't you think that something Sabbath observers deem so very important, God would reveal the command in just a few words, along with the other commands He gave Abe?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Do you believe God knows the end from the beginning? I do. God knew that Israel would never be a beacon to the remainder of the World's population. If the Sabbath was to be spread to all it would have to be done by Him. Many of the verses found in Isaiah have to be taken with a grain of salt. For instance, Is 65 tells us the righteous will live to be over 100. Those born will not die and the unrighteous will not live to be 100. Here, read it for yourself:
“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,

nor will they come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever
in what I will create,
for I will create Jerusalem to be a delight
and its people a joy.
19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
and take delight in my people;
the sound of weeping and of crying
will be heard in it no more.
20 “Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach[a] a hundred
will be considered accursed.


“See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
nor will they come to mind. Yet we see in Is 66:24 And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

Which is it Delvianna? will we not remember, or will we be reminded every week of the result of sinful man? Was God really depending on Israel to be a beacon of the "Sabbath truth" as declared by Isaiah.

How can people teach others to keep something they themselves cannot keep?




So, according to you, the commandment was there, but because of the circumstance, it was ignored, and God didn't hold them responsible. Does that make any sense?

What part of the law, revealed at Sinai, were they responsible for observing?

5 because Abraham obeyed me and did everything I required of him, keeping my commands, my decrees and my instructions.”Gen26:5

Where do you see anything in that verse that would instruct Abraham to observe the Sabbath? Abe was given explicit instructions, but nothing about the Sabbath. Wouldn't you think that something Sabbath observers deem so very important, God would reveal the command in just a few words, along with the other commands He gave Abe?
God claimed the Sabbath as His commandment before Mt Sinai. When God Himself reveals His own commandments - both written and spoken by God, who are we to tell God, well because you did not repeat the Sabbath commandment explicitly than it doesn't include it. We could delete a lot of commandments of God with this argument. Abraham can worship other gods because God did not mention the first commandment when He said "My commandments" God defined "My commandments" Exo20:6 what they entailed Deut4:13 Exo34:28. Man trying to take the liberties to speak for God, what His commandments include or do not include, when God said they do, I do not believe will work out so well.
 
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Delvianna

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If the Sabbath was to be spread to all it would have to be done by Him.
He kept the sabbath. Do you not think that if the sabbath was supposed to be done away with he would have taught otherwise? Instead, he kept it. And I agree that he knew the end from the beginning, so as the disciples say we are supposed to live as he did (1 John 2:6) then shouldn't you do what Jesus did and keep the sabbath?

So, according to you, the commandment was there, but because of the circumstance, it was ignored, and God didn't hold them responsible. Does that make any sense?
You're conflating the 10 commandments with Levitical law, they are not the same thing.

What part of the law, revealed at Sinai, were they responsible for observing?
All of it.

Where do you see anything in that verse that would instruct Abraham to observe the Sabbath? Abe was given explicit instructions, but nothing about the Sabbath. Wouldn't you think that something Sabbath observers deem so very important, God would reveal the command in just a few words, along with the other commands He gave Abe?
What laws was God talking about then? If your argument is "it doesnt say literally every thousand years to keep these specific laws that I constantly have to keep repeating" then WHAT Laws was God talking about? You can't argue that just because it didn't spell out the Sabbath that means it didn't exist. God said "laws".
 
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Hentenza

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God claimed the Sabbath as His commandment before Mt Sinai.
And exactly who before Mt. Sinai knew about the sabbath? Who before the Mt. Sanai kept the sabbath?
 
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SabbathBlessings

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And exactly who before Mt. Sinai knew about the sabbath? Who before the Mt. Sanai kept the sabbath?
Mankind Mark 2:27 At Creation when both mankind and the Sabbath was made according to God Gen1:26 Exo20:11 Gen2:1-3
 
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