The Sabbath, Worship and the End Time

Hentenza · Wednesday at 11:00 AM

Delvianna said:
How do you account for the number of times Jesus called it HIS commandments? (John 14:15, John 14:21, John 15:10, 1 John 5:2) The word "commandment" is the same word used in the sermon on the mount

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:19

You know what other commandments aren't mentioned in the sermon on the mount?

No other gods before me

No idols/images

Don't take the Lord's name in vain

Honor your father and mother

Do not covet

Are you advocating for all of those just because Jesus didn't explicitly go over each and every single commandment? I've also addressed that the NT DOES specify to keep the sabbath. Hebrews 4. But some people want to ignore it.

Hebrews 4 says the opposite. The rest is in Christ.

SabbathBlessings · Wednesday at 11:00 AM

Hentenza said:
Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. The Christian rests in Him. There is no Jewish sabbath commandment for the church.

Jesus did not destroy/end what He is Lord of Isa56:6-7 Mat24:20-30 Isa66:22-23, your words, not His.

To claim there is no Sabbath for His people when Jesus said He made it for His people is really taking liberties only God has.

SabbathBlessings · Wednesday at 11:02 AM

Delvianna said:
How do you account for the number of times Jesus called it HIS commandments? (John 14:15, John 14:21, John 15:10, 1 John 5:2) The word "commandment" is the same word used in the sermon on the mount

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:19

You know what other commandments aren't mentioned in the sermon on the mount?

No other gods before me

No idols/images

Don't take the Lord's name in vain

Honor your father and mother

Do not covet

Are you advocating for all of those just because Jesus didn't explicitly go over each and every single commandment? I've also addressed that the NT DOES specify to keep the sabbath. Hebrews 4. But some people want to ignore it.

Yes, the same ones He said in His written and spoken Testimony Exo20:6

Tigger Boy · Wednesday at 11:06 AM

Freth said:
Rev.13:13-15: And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Freth, I’m certain you believe the word “he” in this texts is the United States, as it is identified in our SDA Bible Commentaries, Vol, 7, pg. 820. “Adventist commentators have see in this second beast a symbol of the United States of America. This power accurately fulfills the specifications of the prophecy.”

According to verse 11, it comes up out of the earth. In verses 12 it is said he will cause all the inhabitants of earth to worship the first beast. In verse 13 it says he will work miracles even calling fire to come down from heaven. Verse 14, Because of such power he will force the world to make an image to the first beast.

So prophecy gives us four specifications identifying the second beast, and we claim that the US fulfills all of the specifications. True it came from the earth as all nations have. But to be specific that it is the U.S. we have interpreted the word “earth” in this way, “earth” may reasonably be assumed to represent a sparsely settled region. The nation thus represented [the U.S.] would therefore not arise by war, conquest, and occupation, but would develop into greatness in a region of few inhabitants.” (SDA Bible Commentaries, volume 7, pg. 820)

Did not the U.S. arise to power through warfare and conquest then occupation? Was the Revolutionary war a myth? Too, it is estimated that 2.5 -7 million Native Americans lived in the colonies that would become the United States.

What evidence is there that the U.S. has made all the inhabitants of the earth to worship the first beast?

What evidence is there that the U.S. has performed a miracle in causing fire to fall from heaven?

Obviously I am questioning these fulfillments. Should you or other Adventists viewing this thread be willing to substantiate their fulfillment it would be appreciated, and clear up my doubts. Or will this be another example of me asking hard questions of which no Adventist is willing to admit they have no answers? Or admit, yes I see your concern.

However, consider a better interpretation. In Rev. 12:9, it states that Satan was cast out of heaven and “into the earth.” When the fifth trumpet judgment is sounded in the future Rev. 9:1- 11 describes Satan and his angles being released from the spirit realm here on earth to which they have been confined since they were cast out of heaven.

So when we understand the second beast is Satan, then yes he will arise from the earth, yes he will be able to cause all the world to worship the first beast, yes he will be able to work a miracle and bring fire down from heaven and yes, he will be able to force the world to make an image to the first beast.

Do we not believe that Satan and his angels shall appear on earth in the end? What are the texts for that belief? Rev. 13: 11- 18, is just one of them if understood correctly.

Hentenza · Wednesday at 11:08 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
Jesus did not destroy what He is Lord of Isa56:6-7 Mat24:20-30 Isa66:22-23, your words, not His.

No one said anything about destroying anything. Using words like that is theological drama used for effect to present an argument based on emotional fallacy. The sabbath command is part of the old covenant and now we have a new covenant which has different terms than the old.

SabbathBlessings · Wednesday at 11:09 AM

To no longer keep means to come to an end/ destroy, Jesus fulfilled the law in keeping it, magnifying Isa 42:21 by placing it in our hearts Heb8:10 teaching us by example John15:10 1John2:6 and taught us not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments, we can try to dance around it like it means something different, but in the end its the opposite of what Jesus said to do Mat5:19 Mark2:27

Hentenza · Wednesday at 11:30 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
To no longer keep means to come to an end/ destroy, Jesus fulfilled the law in keeping it, teaching us by example John15:10 1John2:6 and taught us not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments, we can try to dance around it like it means something different, but in the end its the opposite of what Jesus said to do Mat5:19 Mark2:27

““Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭17‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 5:17 (NASB2020) - “Do not presume that I came to abol | YouVersion

“Do not presume that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.

bible.com

“Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22‬:‭40‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 22:40 (NASB2020) - Upon these two commandments hang th | YouVersion

Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.”

bible.com

“And when you were dead in your wrongdoings and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our wrongdoings, having canceled the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Colossians 2:13-14 (NASB2020) - And when you were dead in your wron | YouVersion

And when you were dead in your wrongdoings and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our wrongdoings, having canceled the certificate of debt co

bible.com

Enough said since you ignore historical context and assign terms of the old covenant to the new covenant.

SabbathBlessings · Wednesday at 11:32 AM

Not one of these verses say we do not have to keep the Sabbath commandment. They are included in not breaking the least of these commandments Mat5:19 and the greatest commandments to love God with all our heart, mind and soul Deut6:5 which was said right after the Ten Commandments was repeated 40 years after God wrote them on stone and before passing through to the promise land, just as we need to Rev22:14

Hentenza · Wednesday at 11:34 AM

SabbathBlessings said:
Not one of these verses say we do not have to keep the Sabbath commandment.

Then show me where it says that the Christian has to keep the Jewish sabbath.

SabbathBlessings · Wednesday at 11:40 AM

Hentenza said:
Then show me where it says that the Christian has to keep the Jewish sabbath.

I have too many times to count. Anytime we see keep the commandments of God they are included, because only God can tell us what are His commandments Exo20:6, men do not tell God. That's places man above God when man is called to be His servant Isa56:6 and He our God Eze20:20

Joseph Perry · Wednesday at 12:09 PM

Delvianna said:
How do you account for the number of times Jesus called it HIS commandments? (John 14:15, John 14:21, John 15:10, 1 John 5:2) The word "commandment" is the same word used in the sermon on the mount

"Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." - Matthew 5:19

You know what other commandments aren't mentioned in the sermon on the mount?

No other gods before me

No idols/images

Don't take the Lord's name in vain

Honor your father and mother

Do not covet

Are you advocating for all of those just because Jesus didn't explicitly go over each and every single commandment? I've also addressed that the NT DOES specify to keep the sabbath. Hebrews 4. But some people want to ignore it.

Christianity is Change. Augustine has defined much of what we believe. In a writing, he referred to the Sermon on the Mount as the "Ultimate Guide to living your Life as a Christian."
"But some people want to ignore it." Look the other way.

Delvianna · Wednesday at 12:16 PM

Joseph Perry said:
Christianity is Change. Augustine has defined much of what we believe. In a writing, he referred to the Sermon on the Mount as the "Ultimate Guide to living your Life as a Christian."
"But some people want to ignore it." Look the other way.

I'm not interested in what Augustine believed, I'm asking YOU and you haven't answered my questions. You cannot infer that since Jesus didn't mention the sabbath, that's grounds to disregard it and then when I point out all the stuff he also didn't mention, you then make reference to Augustine saying its the "ultimate guide to living your life as a Christian". So, I can covet, have other gods, idols etc because Jesus didn't speak about it in the sermon on the mount? Doesn't sound like an "ultimate" guide either.

Hentenza · Wednesday at 12:29 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
I have too many times to count.

Never have you posted a verse that requires the Christian to keep the Jewish sabbath. Not a single one. If you had then I would not have to continue asking you for one.

BNR32FAN · Wednesday at 12:32 PM

Freth said:
The Sabbath, Worship and the End Time

The Great Commission

Matthew 28:16-20 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1. All power is given Jesus in heaven and earth.

Jesus is our Creator. See Colossians 1:16-20.

Before Abraham was, Jesus is I am. See Exodus 3:14, John 8:58.

Jesus' earthly ministry. See Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

2. Teaching them to observe all things that He commanded.

Jesus was at creation and sanctified the Sabbath.

Jesus was at Mt. Horeb/Sinai and gave the Sabbath commandment.

Jesus taught the Sabbath during His ministry.

Jesus prophesied Sabbath observance at the start of the tribulation period before His return.

The Everlasting Gospel

3. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations.

The Bible repeats and enlarges:

Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

The angel has the everlasting gospel to preach to every nation, kindred, tongue and people.

The angel says with a loudvoice (emphasis given; urgency).

Fear God and give glory to Him.

For the hour of His judgment is come.

Worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

The call to worship Him points back to creation.

What then can be found in the creation account that concerns worship?

Genesis 2:1-3 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The account of the first Sabbath points to creation as the reason for the Sabbath institution. The Sabbath commandment also points back to creation and the institution of the Sabbath. See Exodus 20:11.

What makes the Sabbath worshipful? The fact that God blessed it and sanctified it, and commanded to remember to keep it holy. Worship then includes the Sabbath.

The Last Days

4. For the hour of his judgment is come.

There is an urgency to the first angel's call to worship, for the hour of His judgment is come.

The reason for the urgency is the issue of false worship in the last days, and the short time left before Jesus returns.

Revelation 13:15-17 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

What is the opposite of the mark of the beast?

5. The seal of God.

If false worship causes the receiving of the mark of the beast, what then is God's seal?

Exodus 31:13-16 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you. Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

The Sabbath is a sign. Sign is synonumous with mark.

The Sabbath is a perpetual covenant.

Throughout generations. See Matthew 24:20-22.

A seal is a mark of authority. What does a seal consist of?

A quick Google search:

Key Components of a Seal

Entity/Individual: The name of the person, corporation, or government body.

Title/Role: Their official designation (e.g., Engineer, Mayor, Public Weighmaster).

Jurisdiction/Domain: The state, country, or specific area of authority.

Official Emblem/Mark: A unique design, insignia, or text (like "L.S." for locus sigilli).

Date/License Number (often): For professionals, license details for verification.

Where in scripture can we find the seal of God? The Sabbath commandment.

Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the sabbath day [Official Emblem/Mark], to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath [Official Emblem/Mark] of the Lord thy God [Entity/Individual]: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord [Entity/Individual] made [Creator] heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is [Jurisdiction/Domain], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Conclusion

Emphasis is being given specifically to the Sabbath concerning worship.

Both the last call to worship and the Sabbath commandment point back to creation, to the institution of the Sabbath. See Revelation 14:6-7 and Exodus 20:8-11.

The account of the institution of the Sabbath points to creation itself as the reason it was sanctified. See Genesis 2:1-3.

The Sabbath being called a sign/mark. See Exodus 31:13.

The perpetuity of the Sabbath. See Exodus 31:16.

To those who say that the Sabbath is specifically for Israel.

We are Israel.

There is neither Jew nor Greek. See Galations 3:28, Colossians 3:11.

The grafting in. See Romans 11.

The seal of God concerns us all as does the mark of the beast. See Revelation 13:15-17.

The Sabbath concerns us all as it is observed in the new heaven and new earth, showing that it is indeed a perpetual covenant. See Isaiah 66:22-23.

The fact that Jesus stated that the Sabbath was made for man (again, pointing back to creation), and that because of this fact He is also Lord of the Sabbath. See Mark 2:27-28.

The last day events concern the Sabbath and worship.

The causing of all the earth to worship the beast and his image.

The receiving of the mark or the seal.

The last call to worship pointing to the Sabbath specifically.

The seal of God being the Sabbath.

There’s too many superficial connections here to address. Why can’t you just point to a passage during the New Covenant that tells us that we’re required to observe the sabbath, or the ten commandments for that matter? Colossians 2:16 and 2 Corinthians 3 make it abundantly clear that we are not obligated to observe the sabbath and the 10 commandments have been replaced in the New Covenant.

Hentenza · Wednesday at 12:40 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
I have too many times to count.

Hentenza said:
Never have you posted a verse that requires the Christian to keep the Jewish sabbath. Not a single one. If you had then I would not have to continue asking you for one.

So instead of actually posting a verse that teaches that the Christian is required to keep the Jewish sabbath you decide to react to my post with the hysterical laugh reaction instead. Ok then.

SabbathBlessings · Wednesday at 12:48 PM

Hentenza said:
So instead of actually posting a verse that teaches that the Christian is required to keep the Jewish sabbath you decide to react to my post with the hysterical laugh reaction instead. Ok then.

I already did, every time we see keep the commandments of God like John14:15 1 John5:3 Heb8:10 Rev 14:12 Mat5:19 Rev 12:17 Rev 14:12 Rev22:14 etc., it includes the commandment that God made for us Mark2:27. Only God can define His commandments and He did both written and spoken by God. Exo20:6 Exo31:18

You keep claiming they do not include the Sabbath, God said they do Exo20:6 Deut4:13, so not much I can do. Jesus indicated His people would be keeping the Sabbath after the Cross Jews and Gentiles Isa 56:6-7 as we see plainly Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 including the council for the Gentiles Acts 15:21 just as Jesus said until His Second Coming Mat 24:20-30 and for His saints for eternity Isa 66:22-23 I can post the Scriptures I can't make one believe them. We have been through this too many times, I know you don't agree and that's okay, it will get sorted out in God's time.

BNR32FAN · Wednesday at 1:05 PM

Freth said:
Revelation 13:15-17 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

What is the opposite of the mark of the beast?

5. The seal of God.

If false worship causes the receiving of the mark of the beast, what then is God's seal?

Exodus 31:13-16 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you. Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

This is the exact same nonsense Ellen White taught and it doesn’t make any sense with the context of the passage. How do you equate worshipping on a certain day with receiving a mark on your hand or forehead? Where is the connection between these two completely different things and how does not being able to buy or sell have to do with worshipping on a particular day? You quoted the passage, can you explain its significance?

Hentenza · Wednesday at 1:50 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
I already did, every time we see keep the commandments of God

We have been through every single one of your c&p verses. None of these teach that the Christian is required to keep the Jewish Sabbath. The OT verses you quote are addressed to Israel, ie your favorite Exodus 20, and none of the NT verses you posted mention the Jewish sabbath as required. You completely ignore historical and cultural context and simply read your doctrine into them.

Bob S · Wednesday at 2:26 PM

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Actually Bob s did in post 82! You tell me...

Actually, I didn't. Here is what I wrote: "Where there is no law, there is no sin. Abraham didn't sin because there was no law against having multiple wives. Gentiles didn't sin because there was never a law given to them to keep the Sabbath. Still, there is no law that Gentiles must observe any day."

If you are able to find a law in all of scripture that commands Gentiles to observe any day, I will gladly apologize for misleading the viewers.

Joseph Perry · Wednesday at 2:37 PM

Delvianna said:
I'm not interested in what Augustine believed, I'm asking YOU and you haven't answered my questions. You cannot infer that since Jesus didn't mention the sabbath, that's grounds to disregard it and then when I point out all the stuff he also didn't mention, you then make reference to Augustine saying its the "ultimate guide to living your life as a Christian". So, I can covet, have other gods, idols etc because Jesus didn't speak about it in the sermon on the mount? Doesn't sound like an "ultimate" guide either.

We hope the site problems here are now solved, however, if you still have any issues, please start a ticket in Contact Us

The Sabbath, Worship and the End Time

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Well-Known Member

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Well-Known Member

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

I will fear no evil for You are with me

He’s a Way of life

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Well-Known Member

He’s a Way of life

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Similar threads