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Empathy

askesis

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ViaCrucis

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I've pointed out how incredibly intellectually dishonest your definition of empathy is. No one has been tempted to claim that your bizarre definition is not intellectually dishonest. Not even you.

It's a bogus accusation that you can't back up.

But I'll humor you. Pretend like I'm 5. Exactly how is my definition "intellectually dishonest"? Be as precise as you can. After all, I'm not a very smart man.
 
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zippy2006

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Exactly how is my definition "intellectually dishonest"?
Just read what you wrote:

being empathetic just means understanding and recognizing another person is really human
"Empathy is just recognizing another person is really human (and therefore those who oppose empathy oppose recognizing humans as human)." You sound like a partisan hack, not someone who is actually interested in the topic of empathy.

You're involved in partisan, political sloganeering, except instead of churning up a slogan you're just lying about the meaning of a word. It's much the same as someone who says, "BLM just means black lives matter, and anyone who opposes BLM does not think black lives matter." Or, "MAGA just means making America great again, and anyone who opposes MAGA does not like America." "Empathy just means recognizing other people are human too, and anyone who opposes empathy is 'xenophobic'."
 
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Meowzltov

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What's crazy to me is that being empathetic just means understanding and recognizing another person is really human, in all the same weird ways I am. I can have empathy for someone even if I don't agree them. I can be empathetic without supporting, agreeing, and even having serious problems with something they say or do. Empathy doesn't mean I can't be critical of someone. Empathy for a person doesn't mean empathy for every possible feeling. I can be completely befuddled and put off and offended and disturbed by what a person says or thinks or does--but in their humanity empathize with them. Empathy is an intrinsic aspect of loving someone and, since I am a Christian, acknowledging the Image of God in another person.

I am unaware of someone arguing that empathy means agreeing and affirming every thought, statement, or act by a person. I am not aware of that being a definition used by anyone.

A call for empathy toward a person is not a demand to agree, but an invitation to consider how you would want to be treated in their shoes; and thus how you ought to regard and act toward and about a person--even when you disagree.
Let's be clear here. Empathy means the ability to feel what another person is feeling. It is the capacity to wear the shoes of another to such a degree that one experiences what the other is experiencing.

If you are going to have an honest discussion about empathy, then the word needs to be used properly, not redefined.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Let's be clear here. Empathy means the ability to feel what another person is feeling. It is the capacity to wear the shoes of another to such a degree that one experiences what the other is experiencing.

If you are going to have an honest discussion about empathy, then the word needs to be used properly, not redefined.

Then let's provide the clearest definition of empathy:
"the ability to understand and share the feelings of another."

That's how dictionary.com defines it.

The APA Dictionary of Psychology defines it:
"understanding a person from their frame of reference rather than one’s own, or vicariously experiencing that person’s feelings, perceptions, and thoughts. Empathy does not, of itself, entail motivation to be of assistance, although it may turn into sympathy or personal distress, which may result in action. In psychotherapy, therapist empathy for the client can be a path to comprehension of the client’s cognitions, affects, motivations, or behaviors."

Just read what you wrote:


"Empathy is just recognizing another person is really human (and therefore those who oppose empathy oppose recognizing humans as human)." You sound like a partisan hack, not someone who is actually interested in the topic of empathy.

You're involved in partisan, political sloganeering, except instead of churning up a slogan you're just lying about the meaning of a word. It's much the same as someone who says, "BLM just means black lives matter, and anyone who opposes BLM does not think black lives matter." Or, "MAGA just means making America great again, and anyone who opposes MAGA does not like America." "Empathy just means recognizing other people are human too, and anyone who opposes empathy is 'xenophobic'."

Here is how I described empathy, full quote:

"What's crazy to me is that being empathetic just means understanding and recognizing another person is really human, in all the same weird ways I am. I can have empathy for someone even if I don't agree them. I can be empathetic without supporting, agreeing, and even having serious problems with something they say or do. Empathy doesn't mean I can't be critical of someone. Empathy for a person doesn't mean empathy for every possible feeling. I can be completely befuddled and put off and offended and disturbed by what a person says or thinks or does--but in their humanity empathize with them. Empathy is an intrinsic aspect of loving someone and, since I am a Christian, acknowledging the Image of God in another person.

I am unaware of someone arguing that empathy means agreeing and affirming every thought, statement, or act by a person. I am not aware of that being a definition used by anyone.

A call for empathy toward a person is not a demand to agree, but an invitation to consider how you would want to be treated in their shoes; and thus how you ought to regard and act toward and about a person--even when you disagree.
"

And you are so, apparently, incapable of actually offering a meaningful response to it that you have to condescend to ad hominem attacks. First, attacking my intelligence, and accusing me of being a political hack.

Apparently I've ruffled some feathers with this statement:

"Empathy is just recognizing another person is really human"

This isn't a redefining of empathy. It's framing empathy as a virtue of acknowledging the humanity in another. That's not a redefinition, that's an application of the definition.
 
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partinobodycular

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As someone who's admittedly not very empathetic, I have a problem with pretty much every definition of empathy presented thus far. Not because they're wrong necessarily, but because they assume that empathy is experienced in the same way in every individual. This assumption is almost certainly wrong.

Consider for example the internal narrative that most people have running in their heads. It seems rather ubiquitous among us humans, but supposedly up to 10% of people experience no such narrative at all. Ever. Or consider that not everyone has the same ability to visualize things in their head, with some people having no such ability at all, and still others who think that they do, but actually don't. The problem is that we think that what's going on inside of our heads is the same as what's going on inside of other peoples' heads.

People are different. What constitutes empathy for you, probably isn't the same as what constitutes empathy for me. For me what constitutes empathy is more akin to a feeling of distress rather than actually feeling what the other person is feeling. Plus I wonder whether I sometimes confuse outrage with empathy. How much of what I'm feeling is actually empathy for the victim, versus how much is outrage at the perpetrator or the circumstances.

E.g. the shooting of Renee Good in Minneapolis. I'm outraged at the ICE officer for shooting her, but my feelings of empathy for Miss Good are purely a mental construct and not an emotional one at all. Basically, as far as empathy for Renee Good is concerned, I feel nothing. I know that I probably should, but I simply don't.

My point being that any attempt to define empathy has to be fairly generalized and broad so as to include the various ways in which people experience it.
 
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Meowzltov

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Then let's provide the clearest definition of empathy:
"the ability to understand and share the feelings of another."
Yeap, tat's what I just said.
That's how dictionary.com defines it.

The APA Dictionary of Psychology defines it:
"understanding a person from their frame of reference rather than one’s own, or vicariously experiencing that person’s feelings, perceptions, and thoughts. Empathy does not, of itself, entail motivation to be of assistance, although it may turn into sympathy or personal distress, which may result in action. In psychotherapy, therapist empathy for the client can be a path to comprehension of the client’s cognitions, affects, motivations, or behaviors."
Fantastic description--really hits the nail on the ead.
Here is how I described empathy, full quote:

"What's crazy to me is that being empathetic just means understanding and recognizing another person is really human,
Exactly. Your personal "definition is NOT the standard definitions given above.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Yeap, tat's what I just said.

Fantastic description--really hits the nail on the ead.

Exactly. Your personal "definition is NOT the standard definitions given above.

Is my view of empathy at odds with the objective meaning of the word? Specify your objections.
 
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Larniavc

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Such an intellectually dishonest framing precludes the real debate from taking place.
Does it? Feeling bad when you see a scared animal is more sympathy than empathy isn’t it?
 
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partinobodycular

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Feeling bad when you see a scared animal is more sympathy than empathy isn’t it?

Therein lies my problem. Empathy is often described as feeling something 'with someone', while sympathy is described as feeling something 'for someone', but I can't help but wonder whether that's just an oversimplification of empathy. While I can have an almost visceral understanding of what someone else is feeling, which may in turn prompt some level of sympathy for what they're feeling, but I'm not really 'feeling' what they're feeling.

To me, what people describe as empathy is simply a 'deep intellectual understanding of what someone is feeling', combined with a 'sympathetic emotional response to what they're feeling'. It's those two things melded together that are then described as empathy. Of course in my case empathy first has to overcome the greatest obstacle of all... because while I may have an intellectual understanding of what someone else is going through, the emotional response to it just isn't there. Then again emotional responses are just as apt to be negative as positive, so perhaps I'm better off without them.
 
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Meowzltov

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Is my view of empathy at odds with the objective meaning of the word? Specify your objections.
You are missing the point. The point is tat you are changing the definition.
 
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