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Oompa Loompa

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'reports of [rampant shoplifting] have been greatly exagerrated"



So is the the stores or the news companies that are exaggerating?
 
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Fervent

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So is the the stores or the news companies that are exaggerating?
And how does this compare to typical big cities, crime wise? Why do you suppose Seattle is different in this regard?
 
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Oompa Loompa

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And how does this compare to typical big cities, crime wise? Why do you suppose Seattle is different in this regard?
The problem is similar in other large U.S. cities such as New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Portland, and San Francisco. The common denominator is progressive leadership.
 
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Fervent

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The problem is similar in other large U.S. cities such as New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Portland, and San Francisco. The common denominator is progressive leadership.
So petty crime isn't a problem in conservatively led cities? They're crimeless utopias?
 
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Always in His Presence

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It has been happening for years:​

As Walmart shuts down four stores in crime-ridden Dem-led Chicago, DailyMail.com lists all the big box shops - from Macy's to Target - which have closed due to millions in losses from rampant theft


Major retailers in the US have been forced to shut down stores due to millions of dollars in losses as rampant theft plagues big box stores across the country.​
This week, Walmart announced it will shut down four of its stores in Chicago just weeks after America's biggest employer shuttered its only stores in Portland.​
It comes as shoplifting reaches alarming levels and other large retailers, including Target, Macy's and Best Buy, are now making good on threats to shutter outlets if petty crime was not lowered.​
Grok does a great job​
CityStores AffectedYearDetails
San Francisco, CAWhole Foods (Haight-Ashbury), Target (multiple Bay Area), Nordstrom, Walgreens (multiple)2023–2025Whole Foods closed in 2023 due to rampant theft and an overdose death in the store; Target shuttered four locations in 2023 amid organized crime and violence; Nordstrom and Walgreens cited burglaries and safety risks, with 12 Walgreens closures by 2024.
Portland, ORTarget (three stores), Walmart2023Target closed three stores in 2023, blaming theft and violence that threatened staff safety; Walmart reduced operations due to spiraling crime, including murders at all-time highs in 2022.
Seattle, WATarget (two stores), Nordstrom2023–2024Target closed two stores in 2023 over organized retail crime; Nordstrom shuttered its flagship in 2024 citing theft and aggression, following 2020 looting damage.
New York, NYTarget (East Harlem), Macy's2023Target closed its Harlem store in 2023 due to theft and violence; Macy's faced $10,000+ loots in 2022–2023, contributing to urban pullbacks amid rising shoplifting complaints.
Chicago, ILWalmart (four stores), Target, Whole Foods (Englewood)2023Walmart closed four stores in 2023 after tens of millions in theft losses; Whole Foods shut in 2023 due to lack of demand tied to crime; Target and others cited 25% theft rise.
Philadelphia, PATarget, Macy's, Wawa2022–2023Multiple lootings in 2022–2023, including Macy's security guard stabbing; Target closed stores in 2023 amid waves of smash-and-grabs; Wawa looted repeatedly.
Los Angeles, CATarget, Walmart, Nordstrom2023–2025Target and Walmart closed amid 2023 theft surges; Nordstrom cited crime in 2024; 2025 protests escalated to looting, accelerating exits in high-crime areas.
Oakland, CATarget, REI2023Target closed in 2023 after 76% burglary rise; REI shuttered due to theft and violence; nearby stores saw 440+ incidents despite closures.
Baltimore, MDTarget2023Closed in 2023 after 10 years, citing theft in poverty-stricken areas; part of broader urban exodus.
Atlanta, GAWalmart, Target2023Walmart closed a store in 2023 due to theft; Target followed suit amid organized crime.

These closures impacted urban "food deserts," exacerbating access issues, with over 150 Target stores affected nationwide by crime in 2023 alone. Retailers like Walmart warned of further shutdowns if prosecution remains lenient. By 2025, trends continued with Walgreens planning 500 closures, though not all tied directly to violence. No widespread new looting events were reported in late 2025, but organized theft persists.
 

Fervent

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Deflecting are we?
In what way? You are claiming this is a problem unique to liberal run cities, rather than just being a big city problem. I see no reason to find that thesis compelling.
 
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camille70

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So is the the stores or the news companies that are exaggerating?




 
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Oompa Loompa

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In what way? You are claiming this is a problem unique to liberal run cities, rather than just being a big city problem. I see no reason to find that thesis compelling.
Red herrings now?
 
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Fervent

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Red herrings now?
Calling something a fallacy does not make it so. You've provided nothing to substantiate your allegations which would require you demonstrate that the problem, to the extent that it exists, is unique to liberal run cities rather than just being a symptom of cities of a large enough size.
 
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iluvatar5150

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The right way to do it is to let free enterprise take over. I have been in the poorest neighborhoods of cities all over the world and while food is sometimes scarce or in limited variety there are never any food "deserts" where nobody is selling food at all. There's always a vegetable stand on the corner or a guy with a handcart, people sitting by a box of fruit. If you want something to make supper out of you never have to take more than a few steps from your door.
While I think the concept of food deserts is overblown, free markets aren't a panacea, either, because they only solve problems where there's profit to be made. Poor people, by definition, have less money to spend, so the market isn't necessarily going to provide them the things they need the most.
 
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GoldenBoy89

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It has been happening for years:​

As Walmart shuts down four stores in crime-ridden Dem-led Chicago, DailyMail.com lists all the big box shops - from Macy's to Target - which have closed due to millions in losses from rampant theft


Major retailers in the US have been forced to shut down stores due to millions of dollars in losses as rampant theft plagues big box stores across the country.​
This week, Walmart announced it will shut down four of its stores in Chicago just weeks after America's biggest employer shuttered its only stores in Portland.​
It comes as shoplifting reaches alarming levels and other large retailers, including Target, Macy's and Best Buy, are now making good on threats to shutter outlets if petty crime was not lowered.​
Grok does a great job​
CityStores AffectedYearDetails
San Francisco, CAWhole Foods (Haight-Ashbury), Target (multiple Bay Area), Nordstrom, Walgreens (multiple)2023–2025Whole Foods closed in 2023 due to rampant theft and an overdose death in the store; Target shuttered four locations in 2023 amid organized crime and violence; Nordstrom and Walgreens cited burglaries and safety risks, with 12 Walgreens closures by 2024.
Portland, ORTarget (three stores), Walmart2023Target closed three stores in 2023, blaming theft and violence that threatened staff safety; Walmart reduced operations due to spiraling crime, including murders at all-time highs in 2022.
Seattle, WATarget (two stores), Nordstrom2023–2024Target closed two stores in 2023 over organized retail crime; Nordstrom shuttered its flagship in 2024 citing theft and aggression, following 2020 looting damage.
New York, NYTarget (East Harlem), Macy's2023Target closed its Harlem store in 2023 due to theft and violence; Macy's faced $10,000+ loots in 2022–2023, contributing to urban pullbacks amid rising shoplifting complaints.
Chicago, ILWalmart (four stores), Target, Whole Foods (Englewood)2023Walmart closed four stores in 2023 after tens of millions in theft losses; Whole Foods shut in 2023 due to lack of demand tied to crime; Target and others cited 25% theft rise.
Philadelphia, PATarget, Macy's, Wawa2022–2023Multiple lootings in 2022–2023, including Macy's security guard stabbing; Target closed stores in 2023 amid waves of smash-and-grabs; Wawa looted repeatedly.
Los Angeles, CATarget, Walmart, Nordstrom2023–2025Target and Walmart closed amid 2023 theft surges; Nordstrom cited crime in 2024; 2025 protests escalated to looting, accelerating exits in high-crime areas.
Oakland, CATarget, REI2023Target closed in 2023 after 76% burglary rise; REI shuttered due to theft and violence; nearby stores saw 440+ incidents despite closures.
Baltimore, MDTarget2023Closed in 2023 after 10 years, citing theft in poverty-stricken areas; part of broader urban exodus.
Atlanta, GAWalmart, Target2023Walmart closed a store in 2023 due to theft; Target followed suit amid organized crime.

These closures impacted urban "food deserts," exacerbating access issues, with over 150 Target stores affected nationwide by crime in 2023 alone. Retailers like Walmart warned of further shutdowns if prosecution remains lenient. By 2025, trends continued with Walgreens planning 500 closures, though not all tied directly to violence. No widespread new looting events were reported in late 2025, but organized theft persists.
Just taking one example from your list. There are over 300 Target stores in CA, more than 30 of them around LA alone. By contrast, that’s more than double the number of Targets in your entire state of Oklahoma.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Just taking one example from your list. There are over 300 Target stores in CA, more than 30 of them around LA alone. By contrast, that’s more than double the number of Targets in your entire state of Oklahoma.
I don't know how the Targets in CA are run, but the ones around here (in the suburbs, not the middle of the city) are awful. About 10 years ago, they were great, but maybe a year before covid, they started cutting staff and it's just been a disaster. The stores are messy, shelves are often empty, and lines routinely get 15-20 deep. It's bad enough that the WalMarts nearby are notably better.
 
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