Israel-Hamas Thread II

In recent days, diplomatic ties between Qatar, Turkey and Hamas have noticeably intensified. Officially, the focus is on ‘humanitarian aid’ and rebuilding the destroyed infrastructure in the Gaza Strip. In reality, however, this alliance has a different goal: securing its ideological and political power after the end of the war.

While Egypt and Saudi Arabia are negotiating with representatives of the Palestinian Authority in Cairo about administrative structures for the post-Hamas era, representatives of Qatar and Turkey are meeting in Doha in close consultation with the Hamas leadership.

This week, the Emir of Qatar, Tamim bin Hamad al-Thani, welcomed Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan for talks on ‘the reconstruction of Gaza.’ What appeared in official communications to be a routine meeting actually marks the beginning of a strategic alliance: both states, ideologically influenced by the Muslim Brotherhood, do not want to lose their influence in Gaza.

The day before, Turkish Foreign Minister Hakan Fidan, Turkish intelligence chief İbrahim Kalın and the Hamas leadership met in Doha. The message was unambiguous: Ankara does not just want to mediate, Ankara wants to help shape the process.

For Hamas, this is more than symbolic. Qatar continues to provide financial backing, while Turkey provides political legitimacy. Both states see themselves as protective powers of an Islamist order that opposes the Western-Arab alliance.

Opposing this axis of political Islam is the moderate Sunni bloc, led by Riyadh, Cairo and Abu Dhabi. Their goal: to place Gaza under pragmatic administration, supported by Arab security forces and a reformed but non-Islamist Palestinian administration.

Both Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates know that a return of Hamas in political form would jeopardise the entire regional balance. They fear that Doha and Ankara will play the religious card again, this time not with rockets, but with aid money and diplomatic cover.

That is why there is open talk in Riyadh of an ‘Arab protection mandate’ to stabilise Gaza from within, a plan that can only work with Israeli approval.

Jerusalem observes both sides with justified mistrust. The Israeli government rejects any form of Hamas involvement, whether political, religious or disguised as civil, and at the same time has little confidence in the Palestinian Authority's ability to take control of Gaza.

Israel recognises that the real conflict is not only military but also ideological: between a political Islam that sees the destruction of Israel as a divine duty and those Arab states that have long accepted peaceful coexistence with Jerusalem as a reality.

But as long as Western states continue to treat Doha and Ankara as ‘mediators’, the balance is unlikely to shift.

For Israel, one thing is clear: there must be no return to the old patterns. Anyone who wants to ‘rebuild’ Gaza must first prove that they do not intend to infiltrate it ideologically.

After all, those who decide today on the cement for new schools may tomorrow decide on the schoolbooks and thus on the thinking of a new generation.

Two years after the start of the Gaza War, what many military officials have suspected for months is coming to light: the underground war is far from over. Defence Minister Israel Katz told US Vice President J.D. Vance at a meeting that over 60 per cent of Hamas' tunnel systems have not yet been destroyed. This figure is shocking, not only militarily, but also symbolically. It reveals how deeply rooted the enemy is, literally beneath Israel's feet.

The remaining tunnels extend on both sides of the so-called ‘yellow line’, including in areas that are now under Israeli control. Katz described their destruction as ‘a key joint task in the demilitarisation of Gaza under the Trump plan.’ The Israeli army is working ‘around the clock’ to locate and blow up these networks, even now, during the current ceasefire.

The explosions that residents have been hearing around the border area in recent days are not the result of attacks, but of systematic demolition work. They are the echoes of a war that continues underground. For the tunnels are more than just concrete tubes, they are the backbone of Hamas, its lifelines for weapons, supplies, fighters and hostages.

The fact that over 60 per cent of them have survived means that the threat remains very real. Last week, terrorists emerged from one of these tunnel connections and killed two Israeli soldiers, Itay Ya'abetz and Yaniv Kula, near Rafah. It was a reminder that this war is not a closed chapter, but an ongoing struggle for control and security.

The Israeli leadership sees the destruction of the tunnels as a crucial step towards securing the conditions of the ceasefire in the long term.

But this goal remains difficult to achieve. Over many years, Hamas had built an underground empire, a network of tunnels, workshops and bunkers stretching from Rafah to Beit Hanun. Many of these facilities are located deep underground, reinforced multiple times and equipped with electricity,

Added to this is the unresolved problem of smuggling routes between Egypt and the Gaza Strip. Despite Israel's refusal to withdraw from the Philadelphi Corridor, experts warn that mere control of the border strip is not enough to stop underground supplies. As long as Hamas is able to smuggle in building materials, explosives and weapons underground, its military infrastructure remains capable of regeneration.

Israel's task is to disarm this invisible empire piece by piece, not only with explosives, but with strategic consistency. For every tunnel that is not destroyed is an open wound in the body of the country.

It is a sight that leaves one stunned: men who once killed, kidnapped, tortured and murdered Jews are now lying on sun loungers by the pool of a five-star hotel in Egypt's capital. According to an exposé in the British Daily Mail, more than 150 released Hamas terrorists are staying at the Marriott Renaissance Mirage City in Cairo, a resort that also accommodates Western holidaymakers who have no idea that they are in close proximity to convicted murderers.

While Israel was forced under enormous international pressure to release nearly 2,000 imprisoned terrorists, including 250 sentenced to life imprisonment, many of these men now enjoy luxury, comfort and protectionm, in the middle of a country that is officially a partner in the fight against terror.

According to the Daily Mail, 154 of the 250 released Hamas members are currently staying at this hotel, where room rates are equivalent to around 900 shekels per night. Where business travellers, diplomats and tourists from Europe usually stay, men like Mahmoud Issa now enjoy their breakfast buffet – the terrorist who kidnapped and murdered Israeli soldier Nissim Toledano in 1992.

Another, Az ad-Din al-Hamamara, was responsible for recruiting "Palestinian" suicide bombers. Sami Abu Naama and Yusuf Daoud, who were also convicted of multiple murders, are among the guests, according to the report. Photos show them eating, walking on the manicured lawns and relaxing on sun loungers by the pool. The scene is less reminiscent of ‘exile’ and more of a holiday.

Tourists staying there sleep next door to men whose names were on Israel's wanted lists. The hotel management has remained silent so far, as have the Egyptian authorities.

According to the British report, some of those released are expected to travel on to Qatar, Turkey or Tunisia in the coming weeks, three countries that have become safe havens for Hamas officials in recent years. There, they will not face imprisonment, but political asylum, and often financial support.

Israel's Defence Minister Israel Katz had repeatedly warned that many of those released ‘will kill again as soon as the opportunity arises’.

The revelations from Cairo show how real this danger is. It is not a new beginning, not rehabilitation, it is the reward of evil.

The fact that these men sunbathe at the same pools as Western tourists is symbolic of our times: the normalisation of immorality, indifference to the suffering of victims, and the silence of those who should know better.

Under Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez, Spain has become a country that not only criticises Israel, but systematically demonises it.

The latest highlight of this development is the investigation against steel manufacturer Sidenor, one of the country's largest industrial groups. The Spanish judiciary is investigating alleged deliveries of steel to Israeli arms companies, including Elbit Systems. The allegations: violation of the arms embargo, lack of permits and, believe it or not, ‘aiding and abetting genocide’.

Sidenor is not an anonymous backstreet operation. It is a long-established company that has been supplying international markets for decades. Its products are used in mechanical engineering, infrastructure projects and safety components. The fact that such a company is now appearing before a Spanish court for allegedly selling steel to Israel reveals not legal zeal, but political hysteria.

The judiciary is investigating as if it were a war crime and the government is nodding in agreement. In doing so, it is concealing the fact that Spain itself continues to export arms to dictatorships that show no respect for human rights. Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Qatar, Egypt, Venezuela, Iran, all these countries have purchased weapons or technology from Spain. No court has ever brought charges. Only when it comes to Israel does morality suddenly come into play.

The historical irony is unbearable: Spain, of all countries, which exterminated its Jewish population in the 15th century, organised forced baptisms and expulsions, and destroyed hundreds of thousands with the Inquisition, now allows itself to accuse the Jewish state of ‘genocide’.

Exports to Israel are banned but gas is imported from Qatar, which finances Hamas. International law is invoked but dictators in Tehran are courted. The country presents itself as a moral power but remains silent on the atrocities in Syria, Sudan and Venezuela.

Spain stands alongside anti-Israel campaigns, the BDS movement, and moral hypocrites who have never been to Sderot, Nir Oz, or Be'eri, but know exactly who the bad guys are.

eclipsenow said:

Buddy - we see through your indignation straight into the jail cell waiting patiently behind you.
Go away Bibi - you're a whining little boy who has lied almost as much as Trump.

Go straight to jail - do not collect $200!

Click to expand...

Images from the Turkish port city of Trabzon have already gone around the world: a life-size effigy of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu hangs from a construction crane, with a sign above it reading: ‘The execution of Benjamin Netanyahu’.

And Erdogan?

He remains silent because silence works in his favour. He doesn't need to incite hatred, he just needs to let it run its course. The mob will do the rest.

While he speaks of ‘dialogue’ in international forums, Israeli flags are being burned in his country and anti-Semitic caricatures are going viral.

The hanging doll in Trabzon is not an isolated incident, but rather a symbol of Erdogan's political system: a country that not only tolerates violence against Jews and Israel, but cultivates it while presenting an image of peace to the world.

Under Erdogan, Turkey is therefore not a neutral player in the Middle East, but an ideologically charged power factor that has made Islamism, anti-Semitism and political influence a tool of its foreign policy.

Benaiah468 said:

Those who can shop in Gaza today either belong to Hamas structures or have come to terms with them. Hamas cadres, smugglers, middlemen and influencers with ties to terrorism are enriching themselves at the expense of the population's suffering. Aid supplies disappear, donations end up in TikTok accounts, while some "Palestinians" starve. If you want to help Gaza, you have to remove Hamas from power.

Click to expand...

If you want to remove Hamas from power - how about Israel obey international law and Resolution 242 and get out? Just leave? Leave it up to the international community to establish a legitimate Palestinian Authority?

Just think how much money and BAD PRESS that would save "Israel".

Benaiah468 said:

The photos were taken by "Palestinian" photographer Majdi Fathi and shows the Al-Sahaba market in the centre of Gaza. Traders hawk fruit, customers stroll by with plastic bags, children snack on figs. Amidst it all: Israeli goods, Israeli money, Israeli aid.

Click to expand...

Yeah - nice photo op. Tell us all - why did "Israel" reduce 400 aid points to just 4? Oh - by the way - where's a nice shot of the Israeli soldiers being commanded to do belly shots one day - and ball shots the next? Those photos really belong in "Israel's" photo album! (These stories from Doctors without Borders and other groups, NOT Hamas!)

Benaiah468 said:

What stands in the way is not some Israeli plan for genocide.

Click to expand...

Yes it is. Not only is support for WHY "Israel" is fighting starting to drop - but support for for HOW "Israel" was fighting is now condemned twice as much as accepted by younger people. From Pew Research:

Benaiah468 said:

Evidence about the link between Hamas and UNRWA is public knowledge.

Click to expand...

It's tricky. What is Hamas? How do we separate out the militants from the bookkeepers just trying to keep Gaza ticking? Remember how they got peace in Northern Ireland? It involved dealing with a broader political movement that may have had some militant wings in it - but recognising sometimes compromise is necessary for peace.

However, from the Wiki (emphasis mine)


Indeed UNRWA is behind the many improvements to Palestinian school books. They're not perfect - and neither are "Israel's" schoolbook depictions of the 'Other'. Given the intense persecution of Palestinians by the "Occupiers" it's amazing more content does not slip through. But UNRWA are monitoring it - and removing any violent content that might come from Palestinian publishers. If anything "UNRWA has come under criticism from Hamas for teaching Palestinian students Western values. According to Hazem Balousha, some Hamas officials objected to UNRWA organized trips for Palestinian students to visit Holocaust remembrance sites."

Benaiah468 said:

For decades, UNRWA has been regarded as an untouchable institution. It administered schools, health centres and aid programmes, financed by Western countries, which pumped over a billion dollars into the structures every year.

Click to expand...

Yup - because IMAGINE what would have happened to the Gazans if we had left it up to "Israel"? Militant Zionism is escalating.

More of this? But NOTHING TO SEE HERE FOLKS - it's ALL those "Palestinians!"

West Bank community left reeling after Palestinian woman clubbed by masked Israeli settler​

..."Locals say a group of more than 12 young Israeli men threw stones at Palestinians working in the fields and set alight three cars."​

​

Video at link below.​

The world is watching, buddy!​

I condemn the Hamas attack in the STRONGEST possible terms!
Except - I condemn "Israel" killing 43 TIMES more people - 18,000 children - in even STRONGER terms!
Watch the video above. Militant Zionism is out of control. Young people are taking matters into their own hands.
And what will Israel do about it?
What standards of policing apply? Of justice?
This was a few peaceful Palestinian women just trying to harvest some olives.

Benaiah468 said:

But Hamas membership lists and other documents found in Gaza, showing that over 15% of UNRWA’s senior educators in Gaza, in 60 UNRWA institutions, are members of the Hamas and "Palestinian" Islamic Jihad terrorist groups.

Click to expand...

Unless you provide a source for such claims, I am just going to see them as "Israeli" propaganda.

Israel is about as trustworthy as Trump these days.

In fact - you've Gish Galloped with a wall of text again so I'm just not reading any further. The MOMENT you drop ONE SINGLE controversial claim without a source I can investigate, I stop reading.

It's just "Israeli" propaganda.

It's a shame - because there were more photos and links below.

But I've told you - to keep this manageable I would really appreciate a 300 word limit and sources. I copied and pasted your last 4 POSTS into Microsoft Word and it counted over 2000 words. That's behaving like Trump - "Flooding the zone." Get real. I'm not reading all that.

eclipsenow said:

or anti-semitic is going to become meaningless.

Click to expand...

In this case it won't because the UN has become antisemitic.

eclipsenow said:

It will become a cliche that just means anyone who doesn't support Israel's right to mass murder and more crimes and starving a population out.

Click to expand...

It might if Israel was mass murdering and did more crimes and starved people out. So its not because Israel isn't.

eclipsenow said:

It did

Click to expand...

Nope. Your bomb forensic expertise aside.

eclipsenow said:

guess that means you can't use soldiers. May as well just nuke the entire area!

Click to expand...

Good thing they didn't do that. Instead they told the Gazans where to go.

eclipsenow said:

You know who blockaded Gaza for decades and decades against international law?

Click to expand...

You know why that happened? Yup. Hamas. Hamas was breaking international law all the time in attacking Israel. Gee I guess they should have been stopped. But they weren't were they.

eclipsenow said:

You know it's sociology 101 that if you come in and steal someone's land against international law, and surround them with walls and turn their hometowns into open air prisons, and restrict their trade and travel, and treat them like criminals, and generally behave terribly to them and restrict their economy and even access to reliable electricity - that eventually you're going to face disorder or even a rebellion.

Click to expand...

You know Israel left Gaza 20 years ago.

eclipsenow said:

But make no mistake. Israel have occupied both of these lands against international law for over half a century.

Click to expand...

I guess the Palestinians shouldn't have been attacking them then. Against international law. Gee no one stopped them despite it being against international law and all.

eclipsenow said:

This ended up becoming the 1948 Arab Israeli war in which Israel took even more land than was allocated to them.

Click to expand...

I guess the Arabs should have left Israel alone.

eclipsenow said:

There are over half a million Jewish settlers in the West bank,

Click to expand...

I thought we were talking about Gaza.

eclipsenow said:

few wars later and we are in the current situation where the Palestinians don't have any of their own land because

Click to expand...

Because they've turned down every agreement. You know if they weren't so violent they may have an agreement by now. But they just cant stop the violence.

eclipsenow said:

Ghettoization

Click to expand...

Is the fault of the Palestinians. They could have a nice land if they weren't so violent and antisemitic.

rjs330 said:

In this case it won't because the UN has become antisemitic.

Click to expand...

It hasn't. Only Militant Zionists would argue that because they don't like seeing a displaced people getting closer to getting a home. I honestly don't know which is worse in terms of global stability - Militant Islam or Militant Zionism.

But I know who the worse is between Israel and Palestinians. I know who has stolen more land and trapped more people in the world's largest open air jails.

Israel by far!

Not just the 67,000 people Israel slaughtered in Gaz - but the over 1000 people Israeli settlers and soldiers (and sometimes it's hard to tell the difference) who have killed and displaced Palestinians in the West Bank.

You just can't treat people like this and not expect a resistance to form.
(Graphic from Al Jazeera)

rjs330 said:

It might if Israel was mass murdering and did more crimes and starved people out. So its not because Israel isn't.

Click to expand...

18,000 children killed in Gaza. The area declared to be in starvation.

It's not just the UN, but Doctors without Borders and other agencies reporting this.

Oh - and it's all so VERY useful and above-board that Israel stopped journalists going in there to monitor the war!

rjs330 said:

Nope. Your bomb forensic expertise aside.

Click to expand...

Yep - and it's not mine. You can look up the stats - if you can handle data challenging to your worldview.

rjs330 said:

Good thing they didn't do that. Instead they told the Gazans where to go.

Click to expand...

Except half the time - where to go meant "This pile of rubble with no water or food vs that pile of rubble with no shelter or food."

rjs330 said:

You know Israel left Gaza 20 years ago.

Click to expand...

Thanks - I do need to be more precise in my language. Gaza is not occupied. I grant that! But it is trapped within a wall and under various embargoes that Israel periodically tightens the screws on. It is a Ghetto - a Concentration camp if you will.

rjs330 said:

I guess the Palestinians shouldn't have been attacking them then.

Click to expand...

Over half a century? Come on mate - that's so weak! Waaaa - the Palestinians threw some rockets at us? Why's that? Oh - because we OCCUPIED THEM for over half a century - and have denied the Palestinians statehood for nearly 80 years!

Yeah right. The Palestinians really caused all that!

rjs330 said:

I guess the Arabs should have left Israel alone.

Click to expand...

So now it sounds like you're saying they deserve what they get - so Israel doesn't have to obey international law and the norms of "Just War". Yet on the other hand, they're the shining light in the Middle East and deserve ALL our military support because they're so brilliant.

Except - there's that international law business!

I think we're done here. You caught me on ONE semantic slip - but the facts are not your friend in this. Israel has lost so much sympathy in the genocidal way they conducted themselves.

eclipsenow said:

It hasn't. Only Militant Zionists would argue that because they don't like seeing a displaced people getting closer to getting a home. I honestly don't know which is worse in terms of global stability - Militant Islam or Militant Zionism.

Click to expand...

Militant Islam. But the truth is there isnt really any militant Zionism.

The Arabs in Palestine aren't a displaced people. They got themselves involved in a war they couldn't win. THEY are the ones that caused instability in the region. And have been doing so for many years now.

eclipsenow said:

But I know who the worse is between Israel and Palestinians. I know who has stolen more land and trapped more people in the world's largest open air jails.

Click to expand...

They haven't stolen any land anymore than the Arabs stole it.

The Pslestinians created their own difficulties.

eclipsenow said:

Not just the 67,000 people Israel slaughtered in Gaz

Click to expand...

War is hell. I guess they shouldn't have started it.

eclipsenow said:

18,000 children killed in Gaza. The area declared to be in starvation.

Click to expand...

If you believe the numbers its dyill Hamas' fault for stealing the aid.

eclipsenow said:

Yep - and it's not mine. You can look up the stats - if you can handle data challenging to your worldview.

Click to expand...

Its still Hamas' fault. Israel wouldnt have had to do any of it if Hamas would've surrendered. Or better yet if Hamas and other Palestinians wouldnt have attacked them over the years and on October 7.

eclipsenow said:

But it is trapped within a wall and under various embargoes that Israel periodically tightens the screws on. It is a Ghetto - a Concentration camp if you will.

Click to expand...

Thats their own fault for being do violent. There didnt used to be a wall you know. But Israel had to build one yo try and protect its citizens. Same for the iron dome and same for the blockaids. Gee if the Arabs there would've taken all the aid and used it to build a better land and economy instead of spending it on war tunnels and weaponry it would have been a better place. But instead they torn it down with their own hands.

eclipsenow said:

Yeah right. The Palestinians really caused all that!

Click to expand...

Yip, they did. Israel wasn't launching rockets at themselves. Before that it was other kinds of attacks and suicide bombers. An the Palestinians refused a two state solution every time. Yeah they CAUSED it.

eclipsenow said:

So now it sounds like you're saying they deserve what they get - so Israel doesn't have to obey international law and the norms of "Just War".

Click to expand...

Yeah its s just war. Go whine somewhere else. The Arabs in the area have been violating international law forever with all their terrorist money and terrorist attacks. Its a just war against terrorism.

Its not a genocide. If it were Israel could have pretty much killed everyone by now.

I won't listen to Hamas propeganda news. They are as good as Goebbels. Gotta kill all those nasty Jews. Its all their fault because they want to exist and be left alone.

rjs330 said:

Yeah its s just war. Go whine somewhere else.

Click to expand...

I choose to wine here because last time I looked this forum had freedom of speech within certain bounds, and I'm within certain bounds.

And just as we have certain boundaries on behaviour in this forum, there is this thing called just war theory.

Getting to chummy with those who are happy to breach it is a sign that something's off in our moral codes.

As repugnant as the Hamas attack was, and it's awful as their methods were which I have admitted above many times, there is much freedom fighters as the French resistance were against the Nazis.

Article 242 of the United nations is a thing. Israel have been defying that for far too long, and just as the Oslo accords looks like they were about to be a fruit the Israeli prime Minister that agreed to them was assassinated by a right-wing crazy. There's a lot of right-wing crazy going around these days. Justifying awful awful things. Justifying things that are as bad as anything left when crazy or fascist crazy really!

Be very very careful what you get cosy with. I am not cosy with the Hamas attack.

But nor am I happy the way many American evangelicals are to cosy up to Israel as if they're a shining light in the world. They are not, and have not been for generations. Israeli people I guess are one subject, but the Israeli leadership have systematically abused the favour of the US and broken international law for decades. It's time for this to end.

Look up article 242 of the United nations. It's a thing.

eclipsenow said:

As repugnant as the Hamas attack was, and it's awful as their methods were which I have admitted above many times, there is much freedom fighters as the French resistance were against the Nazis.

Click to expand...

Except Israel hadn't invaded Gaza and was running it. Israel left Gaza as you admitted. So no, they weren't freedom fighters. They were terrorists trying to kill as many of the hated Jews as they could becauae rhey don't believe Israel should exist. I don't believe the French continued to fight Germany throughout its history even after WWII was over.

Unless I'm mistaken. Maybe they are atill launching attacks and bombings and suicide bombings inside Germany and I just have missed it.

eclipsenow said:

I choose to wine here because last time I looked this forum had freedom of speech within certain bounds, and I'm within certain bounds.

Click to expand...

Yeah and I also have freedom if speech and can share my opinion on your whining.

eclipsenow said:

Getting to chummy with those who are happy to breach it is a sign that something's off in our moral codes.

Click to expand...

Which is what people are doing when they support Hamas by telling Israel to stop their just war.

As far as UN 242 is concerned.

Is Israel in Violation of UN Resolution 242?

Its up for debate. Secondly, the UN is an anti-semetic organization and Israel should flat ignore whatever they say. Unless they are willing to enforce their edicts upon the rest of the world they arw useless. What has rhe UN said about Russias invasion of Ukraine? Which of course was an invasion. What's the UN going to do about that?

rjs330 said:

Except Israel hadn't invaded Gaza and was running it. Israel left Gaza as you admitted. So no, they weren't freedom fighters.

Click to expand...

I guess in your world there's no wall surrounding Gaza - and no boundaries imposed by Israel on the sea?

Is Israel in Violation of UN Resolution 242? Yes - they are - until both Gaza and the West Bank have territorial integrity and the Palestinians have control over their own resources and labour and freedom of movement.

No debate - except from reality twisting Militant Zionists.

It is repeatedly emphasised that a "Palestinian" state should be democratic and live in peace with Israel.

But how would a state of "Palestine" function politically?

Abbas is the main contact person for Europeans who want to establish a democratic "Palestine".

For decades, it has been part of his tactic to present himself as ‘moderate’ in speeches in English. In front of Arabic-speaking audiences, he regularly advocates the opposite. After Trump took office, for example, Abbas announced that he would stop paying terror pensions, monthly payments to terrorists or their families. Shortly afterwards, it emerged that this was a lie. The payments continue. Abbas also assured Fatah supporters of this in Arabic.

He acts as a dictator in the "West Bank". Under his leadership, corruption and oppression reign supreme. There is no freedom of expression. The first and last presidential election to date took place in 2005, when Abbas was elected for a four-year term. Since then, he has not allowed any new elections. By appointing al-Sheikh as his successor, the 89-year-old Abbas apparently wants to ensure that, in the event of his death, power will be transferred in accordance with his wishes without new elections. According to "Palestinian" electoral law, the term of office for the ‘president’ is four years, and he may only stand for re-election once. Abbas was therefore not actually allowed to remain in office for more than eight years.

Far away from the international stage, Abbas is a Jew-hater and supporter of terrorism whose words could never be trusted in the past. Under his rule, peace with Israel will probably not be possible either in the "West Bank" or in the Gaza Strip.

Abbas wrote his doctoral thesis on ‘the secret relations between Nazism and the leadership of the Zionist movement’. As the conspiracy-theory title suggests, his aim is to relativise the Holocaust by insinuating a (purely fictitious) collaboration between Zionists and Nazis. In other words, he seeks to blame the Jews themselves for their destruction, if, that is, it ever took place at all in the sick worldview of Holocaust deniers.

Why Abbas cannot apologise for the 1972 Olympic attack (11 Israeli athletes killed): he was probably one of the accomplices, was the PLO's finance chief at the time and provided the funds for the bloody operation.

In 2018, he repeated the claim that Jews were to blame for the Holocaust because of their ‘social behaviour’, including lending money, a classic anti-Semitic attribution dating back to the Middle Ages. He went on to say that Jews had no historical roots in the Middle East and that Hitler had supported immigration to historic "Palestine", even though he also wanted to hunt them down there.

It is not possible to achieve peace and reconciliation between two peoples based on blatant lies, historical distortions and Holocaust denial,

eclipsenow said:

​

​

The unprovoked attack took place in the village of Turmus'ayya in the West Bank.​

​

Click to expand...

Showing only half the picture is manipulative. Of course, that doesn't make violence any better, but it does explain it.

In Judea and Samaria, 2023 saw a dramatic increase in "Palestinian" attacks compared to the previous year, with shooting attacks reaching their highest level since the Second Intifada of 2000 to 2005.

Since Oct 7 the emergency services of ‘Rescuers Without Borders’, an Israeli volunteer organization of medics, paramedics, and doctors that responds to emergencies in Israel and internationally, enumerated 4,099 terror attacks during the first six months of 2023 alone. In the 100 days following Oct 7, "Palestinians" carried out another 2,674 attacks on Jews in Judea and Samaria. Rescuers Without Borders includes vehicular stoning attacks in their data. Those average around 10 per day. It is not a question of justifying settler violence, but the double standard applied to Israel is extremely grating. Just recently, a heavily pregnant woman was shot dead by "Palestinian" snipers on her way to hospital. She is not the first, and I fear she will not be the last.

Benaiah468 said:

It is repeatedly emphasised that a "Palestinian" state should be democratic and live in peace with Israel.

Click to expand...

It's should be.

Benaiah468 said:

But how would a state of "Palestine" function politically?

Click to expand...

The international community is aiming to help develop a more legitimate Palestinian Government.

"Israel" (by which I really mean the Militant Zionists in government, not the average Jewish citizen) constantly present a circular argument.

Israel’s argument against the Palestinians is circular​

1. Palestinians have done horrible things to us and have all kinds of terrorism embedded in their government!
(While conveniently ignoring that in the last decade, ISRAEL have killed more Palestinians in the WEST BANK than Hamas did at the music festival!)

2. THEREFORE, "Israel" must continue their harsh blockade on Gaza, and their illegal settler-occupation of the West Bank and illegal killings of Palestinians.

3. The result? Decades of oppression creates the sadly predictable conflict, economic and basic lifestyle hardships, and Palestinian outrage turning to fresh hatred. It’s Sociology that this will then cause more uprisings - which gives Israel the pretext to play the victim while continuing to ignore international law, oppress a people, steal land, murder innocents, and most of all - market their 'battle tested weapons'. And so we end up back at 1: Palestinians have done horrible things to us!

THEREFORE WE CANNOT TRY ANYTHING NEW - LIKE GIVING THEM THEIR FREEDOM!?

But why? Why would Israel be so committed to maintaining this cycle of violence?

First - they want ALL the land. Israel’s leadership today has outright rejected a Palestinian state! They are slowly and systematically practicing ILLEGAL settler colonialism against Palestinians in the West Bank. A map looks like Swiss cheese - with the Palestinians living in the holes - and they are shrinking.

Second - and even more sinister - they are ECONOMICALLY ADDICTED to these wars cropping up now and then, as it gives their international arms trade an excuse to market their bombs as ‘battle tested.’! That’s a big claim - so I will hand you over to Australian Jewish journalist Anthony Loewenstein has published books and spoken at the Australian ABC dialogues called the National Press Club. His hypothesis? Israel sees the Palestinian areas as useful for testing their military products. He calls it “The Palestinian Laboratory.” The Palestine Laboratory Podcast It lets Militant Zionists market everything from drones and surveillance kit tested in the West Bank through to huge bombs dropped on Gaza as as “Battle Tested!”

So they avoid using a tactical local effect smart bombs, and instead use bombs with a lung crushing shockwave that races out up to 300 meters in all directions. Across a diameter of over 600 meters innocent men, women and children cough up their lungs and suffocate. That's several city blocks away from the target! How is that not a war crime?

Lowenstein also documents how Israel not only sold weapons to regimes like Apartheid South Africa through to Pinochet's Chile, but sold them workshops on how to get away with it all, and strategies to soften complications in international relations.

Benaiah468 said:

Showing only half the picture is manipulative. Of course, that doesn't make violence any better, but it does explain it.

Click to expand...

Which is what you do all the time, my friend.
Show Israel's half of the picture.

That's been popular until recently - but a wave of young people not afflicted with Militant Zionism are coming through. Unlike Israel - they WANT the violence to stop. They're SICK of seeing starving Palestinians - and Israel dealing out blows 44 TIMES more lethal than the Hamas attack. (Oh yeah - it's 45 - because Israel killed more than the Hamas attack in the West Bank over the last decade. Can't forget that slow motion genocide - can we?)

This is from a Chinese English language news agency but the pictures of the destruction of northern Gaza are genuine and this short video gives an idea of what the people returning to their homes face:


Still "Israel has a right to defend itself"!

Some further accounts can be found in this Guardian news article:
‘I expect to find a ghost city’: Gaza residents on the long, arduous journey back home

Salem had managed to reach his home, only to find that it no longer existed. He added his home to the long list of things he had lost over the last two years, unimportant compared to the loss of his brother. Still, despite losing his house, Salem still felt he had returned home.

“Here in the north, despite all the devastation, I feel more at peace than in the south, because I am back where I belong, to my memories, my neighbourhood, my neighbours, and my home, even if it is destroyed,” he said.

Click to expand...

“On the road, I saw someone returning. When he saw his house still standing from a distance, he began to run and shout with joy,” said Zuheir. “At that moment, I felt pain because I was returning to my area knowing my house was already completely destroyed.”

“People here, when they see any trace of their house, feel great hope and joy, as if it had never been damaged. All they want is a small piece of their memories from the house they once lived in,” she added.

Click to expand...

Finding your house still standing brings unimaginable joy and even the slightest trace is something to be happy about such is the devastation caused by Israel's "self-defence".

Also from the Guardian:

No such thing as a 'normal birth in Gaza now', says senior UN official​

On Wednesday, an official with the UN Population Fund (UNFPA) described the “sheer devastation” that he witnessed on his most recent travel to Gaza, saying that there is no such thing as a “normal birth in Gaza now”.

Andrew Saberton, an executive director at UNFPA, told reporters how difficult the agency’s work has become due to the lack of functioning or even standing health care facilities.

According to the Associated Press (AP), Saberton said:
I was not fully prepared for what I saw. One can’t be. The sheer extent of the devastation looked like the set of a dystopian film. Unfortunately, it is not fiction.

Saberton added that Palestinian women cannot get access to a hospital. He said:
They often don’t even have access to a private space in a tent. We have stories of women giving birth actually in the rubble, beside the road.

Vanellus said:

On Wednesday, an official with the UN Population Fund (UNFPA) described the “sheer devastation” that he witnessed on his most recent travel to Gaza, saying that there is no such thing as a “normal birth in Gaza now”.

Click to expand...

The Islamist movement, instead of prioritizing the integrity of the "Palestinian" people, repeatedly provides Israel with pretexts to devastate the Gaza Strip.

eclipsenow said:

Israel killed more than the Hamas attack in the West Bank over the last decade.

Click to expand...

Not without reason and the wave of attacks against Jews continues unabated.

eclipsenow said:

The international community is aiming to help develop a more legitimate Palestinian Government.

Click to expand...

The "Palestinians" are completely unprepared for this and their own state, both in terms of character (when children learn about the murder of Jews at summer camp and Hamas facilities) and politically (as Abbas does everything he can to keep power in his hands and Hamas continues to gain support and there is no alternative to dependence on the PA, which promotes terror) and ideologically (no mention of reading the charter. And yes, Jews would not have access to "Palestinian" territories, even though they are biblical heartland).