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How common is Socianism amongst christians?

dms1972

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I started going to a fellowship a good many years ago. I liked the Pastor, but something was troubling me about some of the folks there and I wasn't sure if they were believers or not. I was beginning to feel like I was some odd ball sort of christian who believed stuff very few other christians believed, and that one could equally get away with not believing. They went about confidently enough and I kind of felt I daren't say or question anything as I was the 'noob' there. Now I understand that in any christian fellowship there will be seekers and non-christians and some perhaps indifferent. But this was a Baptist Church and I thought it was also evangelical. So I approached someone and asked him a few questions, and it turned out he seemed to believe God could just forgive us, and that Jesus didn't need to die for us to be forgiven. Now what happens in a evangelical church in this situation? Here was someone going about confidently around the church (I was fairly new to this fellowship and really didn't know very many people and didn't feel that confident myself) but he seemingly didn't know the Gospel, or had not responded to it yet.

To be honest it called a lot of things into question for me. If this could be the case, how many there were in a similiar position, was the Gospel being made clear in the preaching - that as Scripture says: "Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin." (Hebrews 9:22) I don't have a problem with there being seekers at a church - of course there will be seekers!! The problem I have is with people there who think God just forgives, no Atonement needed.

I experienced other difficulties there and could not figure out if it was me or the people there.

Oswald Chambers writes "The only ground on which God can forgive us is the tremendous tragedy of the Cross of Christ - to put forgiveness on any other ground is unconscious blasphemy." (My Utmost for His Highest - Nov. 20)

Should I have questioned that chap about what he believed?
 
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Gregory Thompson

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For the folks reading this that miss the reference in the subject line (I did)

Socianism says that if Jesus was only a human, and not God; there is no Trinity (Unitarianism), no hell, and no need for the Atonement. This means that Scripture is broken.

it was an anti-trinitarian heresy that started at the same time as the reformation. The reason it is being brought up (probably) is because MacArthur made reference to it in one of his books. .. and that the church claimed to be baptist.

==

My Thoughts, in general any church calling itself evangelical is liberal in one way or another. There is a "one blind spot" per congregation unspoken rule where something that is sin, is not discussed as sin so people can relax. The relax aspect is part of the evangelical way of doing things.

So if you encounter a Chimera like an Evangelical Baptist church, figuring out how they are evangelical and how they are baptist may take some time.
 
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dms1972

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Yes I apologise for not defining Socianism. Thankyou for doing so.

I should say and I edited my post, I thought that church was evangelical.

I wasn't thinking about MacArthur at all when I posted, and not sure which book he made reference to it.
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Yes I apologise for not defining Socianism. Thankyou for doing so.

I wasn't thinking about MacArthur at all when I posted, and not sure which book he made reference to it.
The site I read said the book was "Ashamed of the Gospel"
 
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Kathleen30

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I started going to a fellowship a good many years ago. I liked the Pastor, but something was troubling me about some of the folks there and I wasn't sure if they were believers or not. I was beginning to feel like I was some odd ball sort of christian who believed stuff very few other christians believed, and that one could equally get away with not believing. They went about confidently enough and I kind of felt I daren't say or question anything as I was the 'noob' there. Now I understand that in any christian fellowship there will be seekers and non-christians and some perhaps indifferent. But this was a Baptist Church and I thought it was also evangelical. So I approached someone and asked him a few questions, and it turned out he seemed to believe God could just forgive us, and that Jesus didn't need to die for us to be forgiven. Now what happens in a evangelical church in this situation? Here was someone going about confidently around the church (I was fairly new to this fellowship and really didn't know very many people and didn't feel that confident myself) but he seemingly didn't know the Gospel, or had not responded to it yet.

To be honest it called a lot of things into question for me. If this could be the case, how many there were in a similiar position, was the Gospel being made clear in the preaching - that as Scripture says: "Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin." (Hebrews 9:22) I don't have a problem with there being seekers at a church - of course there will be seekers!! The problem I have is with people there who think God just forgives, no Atonement needed.

I experienced other difficulties there and could not figure out if it was me or the people there.

Oswald Chambers writes "The only ground on which God can forgive us is the tremendous tragedy of the Cross of Christ - to put forgiveness on any other ground is unconscious blasphemy." (My Utmost for His Highest - Nov. 20)

Should I have questioned that chap about what he believed?
DMS perhaps the person has yet not fully comprehended theologically the perfect justice system of a perfect God. And that it being only a permanent redeeming sacrifice which could make null and void the consequences of sin. That being the blood sacrifice and death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ . That is what the law demanded of which of none of us could ever keep all except Christ . It is finished
 
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Maria Billingsley

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I started going to a fellowship a good many years ago. I liked the Pastor, but something was troubling me about some of the folks there and I wasn't sure if they were believers or not. I was beginning to feel like I was some odd ball sort of christian who believed stuff very few other christians believed, and that one could equally get away with not believing. They went about confidently enough and I kind of felt I daren't say or question anything as I was the 'noob' there. Now I understand that in any christian fellowship there will be seekers and non-christians and some perhaps indifferent. But this was a Baptist Church and I thought it was also evangelical. So I approached someone and asked him a few questions, and it turned out he seemed to believe God could just forgive us, and that Jesus didn't need to die for us to be forgiven. Now what happens in a evangelical church in this situation? Here was someone going about confidently around the church (I was fairly new to this fellowship and really didn't know very many people and didn't feel that confident myself) but he seemingly didn't know the Gospel, or had not responded to it yet.

To be honest it called a lot of things into question for me. If this could be the case, how many there were in a similiar position, was the Gospel being made clear in the preaching - that as Scripture says: "Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sin." (Hebrews 9:22) I don't have a problem with there being seekers at a church - of course there will be seekers!! The problem I have is with people there who think God just forgives, no Atonement needed.

I experienced other difficulties there and could not figure out if it was me or the people there.

Oswald Chambers writes "The only ground on which God can forgive us is the tremendous tragedy of the Cross of Christ - to put forgiveness on any other ground is unconscious blasphemy." (My Utmost for His Highest - Nov. 20)

Should I have questioned that chap about what he believed?
Since the very foundation of being a Christian is to acknowledge the diety of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I would say this Pastor is not a Christian. He is a danger to the Body of Christ as he is teaching a false doctrine and impersonating a Baptist leader which directly contradicts their core tenants. If you still attend this congregation I would first make sure you understood him correctly and if you did, report him to the elders. If they are taking the same position then I would send a letter to each leader and immediately part ways.
Blessings
 
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dms1972

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DMS perhaps the person has yet not fully comprehended theologically the perfect justice system of a perfect God. And that it being only a permanent redeeming sacrifice which could make null and void the consequences of sin. That being the blood sacrifice and death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ . That is what the law demanded of which of none of us could ever keep all except Christ . It is finished

Just to be clear I am talking about something a good few years ago. I agree with you, but I think there were problems in that church at that time. Theres a difference between a congregation having an evangelical Pastor, and a congregation being evangelical. I don't really know what the details of Baptist soteriology are. I'm accepting of various traditions, but felt a strong sense of unease while I attended that particular congregation at that time. It turned out as I discovered several year later, that over half the people there were from splits with other congregations either inside or outside the denomination.
 
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dms1972

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Since the very foundation of being a Christian is to acknowledge the diety of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, I would say this Pastor is not a Christian. He is a danger to the Body of Christ as he is teaching a false doctrine and impersonating a Baptist leader which directly contradicts their core tenants. If you still attend this congregation I would first make sure you understood him correctly and if you did, report him to the elders. If they are taking the same position then I would send a letter to each leader and immediately part ways.
Blessings
No the Pastor was ok I believe, He would have acknowleged I believe the deity of Jesus Christ. I was speaking of someone in the congregation.
 
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The Liturgist

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Strictly speaking, Soccinianusm, also known as Unitarianism, and Christianity, are mutually exclusive. Therefore we can say that there is a 0% prevalence of Soccinianism among the Christian faithful.

Unfortunately there are those who believe Jesus was not God incarnate or even a lesser divinity (the belief of the J/Ws and other neo-Arian heretics) who believe themselves to be Christian, which is a form of spiritual delusion, however, the number of Unitarians in the UK and Unitarian Universalists in the US who identify as Christians has sharply declined in recent years. Only a few Unitarian churches, such as King’s Chapel in Boston, still call themselves Christian (And in the case of King’s Chapel, unlike other former Puritan UUA churches in Boston such as the First Church of Boston, the Arlington Street Church, the Federal Street Church, etc, King’s Chapel has always been welcoming of Trinitarians - it is more of an excessively broad church Anglican church than a dogmatic Unitarian church like the others that converted from Congregationalism and seized control of Harvard University in the 1780s).
 
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dms1972

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DMS perhaps the person has yet not fully comprehended theologically the perfect justice system of a perfect God. And that it being only a permanent redeeming sacrifice which could make null and void the consequences of sin. That being the blood sacrifice and death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ . That is what the law demanded of which of none of us could ever keep all except Christ . It is finished

Just picking up the thread again.

If that was the case then he may have been a christian seeker. In seeking to be more involved in that fellowship I was expected to be in mutual submission with this chap however, and so I thought i'd ask a couple of questions of him. As the incident was a good few years ago, I had partly forgotten my thoughts and discernment at the time. Its more to do with process theism (than with socianism) and that it seemed to me was infecting that fellowship to some degree despite it being considered evangelical.
 
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dms1972

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Process theism has been a problem in evangelical churches.

"The mainline churches have been heavily influenced by the impact of [process philosophy] as it has emerged into a major, if not the major, school of influence in our day." wrote RC Sproul​
For process theologian Shubert H. Ogden there is no saving work performed by Christ. His theology incorporates elements of Bultmann's existentialism into process theology.

A question needing answered is why conservative churches have been susceptible to process theism?

Classical theism and Biblical theism may overlap at some points but they are not the same. In more conservative churches a classical-biblical synthesis is often apparent. Donald G Bloesch writes:

"While it would be a mistake to try to expurgate all Hellenistic elements from Christian theology in order to get back to the simple faith of Jesus, we need to recognise that a general transformation of Christianity did take place because of a too heavy dependence on Hellenistic categories in the explication of the faith.​
In both patristic and medieval theology the Hellenistic conception of God as the impassible Absolute frequently overshadowed the biblical depiction of God as the gracious heavenly Father who condescends to share in our tribulation and ignominy. God is the all-knowing intellect or pure actuality rather than the One who loves. The God of the Bible is not Absolute Mind, not thought thinking upon thought (Aristotle), but the Acting Subject who encounters us in the moment of decision. It is the difference between the Idea of the Good, and the Living God who wills the Good." (A Theology of Word and Spirit)​
I wonder then if in these churches where there is the classical-biblical synthesis, if some of the Hellenistic elements have overshadowed the Biblical view of God, resulting in some there embracing some form of process theism? It could be the other way round - a reaction from process theism back to classical theism occurs but with the result that the Biblical view of God is partially eclipsed. These were all my thoughts at the time.
 
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