Is 'once saved always saved' a biblical teaching?

d taylor · 2025-10-10T08:51:18-0500

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There are only two possibilities concerning Judas (or really any person).

Judas believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life and is now in heaven with Jesus (who he betrayed) and other born again believers.

Or Judas never believed in Jesus for Eternal life and is now in hades/sheol waiting his judgment at the great white throne.

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*A third possibility is a man concocted creation and is not a Biblical supported possibility.

That Judas was a born again child of God, who became an un-born again child of God and crossed back over from life to death.

Spiritual Jew · 2025-10-10T09:50:42-0500

BPPLEE said:
Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 [c]if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7

So if someone gets saved and then backslides there’s no hope for them?

Where do you see the word "backslide" there? It's not there. Don't change the text. It says "fall away" which suggests someone has completely turned away, lost their faith and departed from God, like it talks about in this verse...

Hebrews 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

How do you interpret Hebrews 6:4-6?

Spiritual Jew · 2025-10-10T09:53:58-0500

BPPLEE said:
The Book of Hebrews was written primarily to Jewish Christians, likely those living in Jerusalem or Judea, who were familiar with the Old Testament and Jewish traditions. The exact audience is not explicitly named, but the letter’s extensive references to Hebrew Scriptures, the Temple, and Jewish rituals suggest it was addressed to believers with a strong Jewish background, possibly facing persecution or temptation to revert to Judaism.

Much of what is written in it applies to all Christians, including Gentiles as well, though. The new covenant is written about in Hebrews 8 to 10 and that certainly does not only apply to Jews. So, you're not really making much of a point here. There's no reason to think that the warnings given to believers in passages like Hebrews 3:12-14, Hebrews 6:4-6 and Hebrews 10:26-27 don't apply to Gentile believers as well.

Spiritual Jew · 2025-10-10T09:55:25-0500

BPPLEE said:
Of course Jesus knew, he knew everything that was going to happen. But did Judas have a choice? Can both be true, that he was predestined but it was still his choice?

Where do you get the idea from that Judas was predestined to betray Jesus?

Spiritual Jew · 2025-10-10T09:56:11-0500

BPPLEE said:
And Jesus knew who would betray him

Knowing an event that will happen beforehand is not the same as predetermining for that event to happen.

Spiritual Jew · 2025-10-10T10:00:51-0500

d taylor said:
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What is really sad is, there is not one single example of a born again child of God (a believer) in The Bible. Becoming unborn again and crossing back over from life to death.

This is a very weak argument. There are plenty of passages which say that it's possible, so why does it matter if a case of that occurring is recorded or not?

d taylor said:
But yet this human concocted idea, that a born again person can become un-born again and cross back over from life to death remains to be a very popular belief in churches. Maybe because these churches are teaching a works based way to life and not the way God has planed by belief in Jesus.

No, that isn't it. We're not saved by works, so we can't lose our salvation by not doing enough works. We're saved by grace through faith. There are scriptures that say a believer can lose their faith and fall away such as Hebrews 3:12-14 and Hebrews 6:4-6. Hebrews 3:14 indicates that we must keep our faith until the end (of our lives or of the age) in order to be saved. Faith is not just a one time thing that people do after which they just coast to the finish line while doing whatever they want with no care about whether they are faithful and submitted to Christ or not. Paul describes in 2 Timothy 4:7 the Christian experience as a race that we must continue running until we get to the finish line (end of our lives). It's not about works, it's about continuing to keep our faith and trust in Christ instead of in ourselves or anyone or anything else.

Spiritual Jew · 2025-10-10T10:04:20-0500

d taylor said:
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So where in the verses you are referencing state Judas believed in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life

Why did Jesus indicate that Judas was lost if he was never saved in the first place?

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

ARBITER01 · 2025-10-10T10:14:23-0500

Spiritual Jew said:
Why did Jesus indicate that Judas was lost if he was never saved in the first place?

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

That's a very good point!

I think that just basically destroyed that argument.

BPPLEE · 2025-10-10T10:16:33-0500

Spiritual Jew said:
Where do you see the word "backslide" there? It's not there. Don't change the text. It says "fall away" which suggests someone has completely turned away, lost their faith and departed from God, like it talks about in this verse...

Hebrews 3:12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;

How do you interpret Hebrews 6:4-6?

Clearly you haven't kept up with the thread. You are making my point

BPPLEE · 2025-10-10T10:21:03-0500

Spiritual Jew said:
Where do you get the idea from that Judas was predestined to betray Jesus?

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, THAT THE SCRIPTURE MIGHT BE FULFILLED

Clare73 · 2025-10-10T10:24:44-0500

Spiritual Jew said:
Why did Jesus indicate that Judas was lost if he was never saved in the first place?

We are all born lost, including Judas. . .by nature, objects of wrath (Eph 2:3). . .we are born with our nature, born as objects of wrath and remain so without saving faith in Jesus Christ.

ARBITER01 · 2025-10-10T10:31:03-0500

Clare73 said:
We are all born lost, including Judas. . .by nature, objects of wrath (Eph 2:3). . .we are born with our nature, born as objects of wrath and remain so without saving faith in Jesus Christ.

We can't twist scripture into what we want it to say.

Judas was as much a disciple as Peter was, he just purposely decided to betray Jesus.

Clare73 · 2025-10-10T10:34:59-0500

ARBITER01 said:
We can't twist scripture into what we want it to say.

Nor deny what it does clearly say in Eph 2:3; i.e., all are "by nature (we are born with our nature) objects of wrath."

ARBITER01 said:
Judas was as much a disciple as Peter was, he just purposely decided to betray Jesus.

Being a disciple does not save anyone. . .only faith in Jesus Christ saves (Eph 2:8-9). . .which Judas did not have.

ARBITER01 · 2025-10-10T10:35:43-0500

Clare73 said:
Being a disciple does not save anyone. . .only faith in Jesus Christ saves.

What does it mean to betray Jesus in the Greek?

Clare73 · 2025-10-10T10:55:19-0500

ARBITER01 said:
What does it mean to betray Jesus in the Greek?

"Betray" (paradidomi, "to give over") in Mt 17:22, 26:16, Jn 6:64, etc. means to deliver over treacherously by way of betrayal. . .as well as other ways of "giving over."

ARBITER01 · 2025-10-10T11:08:51-0500

Clare73 said:
"Betray" (paradidomi) in Mt 17:22, 26:16, Jn 6:64, etc. means to deliver over treacherously by way of betrayal.

Lol,.... so you post something that doesn't define the term and speaks circular???

Here,... I posted this already in the thread,....

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those once having been enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gift, and becoming sharers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and tasting the good Word of God, and the works of power of a coming age,
Heb 6:6 and having fallen away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame.

Original: παραπίπτω
- Transliteration: Parapipto
- Phonetic: par-ap-ip'-to
- Definition:
1. to fall beside a person or thing
2. to slip aside
a. to deviate from the right path, turn aside, wander
b. to error
c. to fall away (from the true faith): from worship of Jehovah
- Origin: from G3844 and G4098
- TDNT entry: 08:50,8
- Part(s) of speech: Verb

- Strong's: From G3844 and G4098; to fall aside that is (figuratively) to apostatize: - fall away.

The context here in Hebrews is of knowing the truth by experience from GOD, and then willfully deciding to reject that truth and Jesus.

Judas was no different. He was chosen by Jesus prior to the cross as the other 11 were, and watched the miracles that The Father did through Jesus, knew the truth, felt the power emanating from Jesus, and willfully rejected that truth for money, his greed.

I'm not sure what else to point out for you. If you are going to fight for a personal belief against the scriptures, then I guess you have limited yourself in how far you will go with GOD.

I'm done arguing with folks on the sight. Everyone else can argue.

Clare73 · 2025-10-10T11:32:03-0500

ARBITER01 said:
Lol,.... so you post something that doesn't define the term and speaks circular???

Did you miss "to deliver over treacherously," as the definition for "betray," which is the verb form of the noun "betrayal."

ARBITER01 said:
Here,... I posted this already in the thread,....
Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those once having been enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gift, and becoming sharers of the Holy Spirit,
Heb 6:5 and tasting the good Word of God, and the works of power of a coming age,
Heb 6:6 and having fallen away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame.
Original: παραπίπτω
- Transliteration: Parapipto
- Phonetic: par-ap-ip'-to
- Definition:
1. to fall beside a person or thing
2. to slip aside
a. to deviate from the right path, turn aside, wander
b. to error
c. to fall away (from the true faith): from worship of Jehovah
- Origin: from G3844 and G4098
- TDNT entry: 08:50,8
- Part(s) of speech: Verb
- Strong's: From G3844 and G4098; to fall aside that is (figuratively) to apostatize: - fall away.
The context here in Hebrews is of knowing the truth by experience from GOD, and then willfully deciding to reject that truth and Jesus.

Those above, along with Judas, who fell away only tasted, they did not eat.

Those who eat do not fall away.

Is 'once saved always saved' a biblical teaching?

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