Might the Laws of God actually change on the New Earth?

SabbathBlessings said:

That’s the difference, we don’t need to re-interpret we just need to believe the plainly written Scriptures and not lean on our own understandings. Pro 3:5-6

The Sabbath is a commandment of God. No different than the commandment to only worship God and not murder our brethren. Where in the NC says we can break God’s commandments? According to NC Scripture all of God’s saints (saved) do so through love and faith. Rev 14:12 John 14:15 1John5:3 and this is the faith that reconciles us Rev22:14

Click to expand...

No, the Sabbath was a specific commandment for the Israelites/Jews only.

Here is the plainly written Scripture:

Exodus 31:13
“Say to the children of Israel, ‘You shall observe my Sabbaths, for the Sabbath is a sign between me and you for all your generations, so that you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.


Gentiles are not commanded to keep the Sabbaths. This is not difficult for most people to understand. You are adding a Sabbath commandment for the Gentile Christians.

Christians also do not obey the OT circumcision laws/commandments, which were commanded for the Israelites/Jews.

Genesis 17:12
Whenever baby boys are eight days old, they will be circumcised, whether they are your own children or the children of those whom you bought and who are foreigners and not of your bloodline.

Genesis 17:13
You must circumcise those who are born in your house and those who are bought by you. Thus, my covenant will be marked in your flesh as an eternal covenant.

Genesis 17:14
The male who is not circumcised, the one whose flesh of his member is not circumcised, is to be cut off from his people. He will have violated my covenant.”


If, according to your understanding, that the eternal covenant OT commandments cannot change, why did Paul command this for the Christians?

Galatians 5:2
Listen to me! I, Paul, tell you that if you allow yourselves to be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you.

Galatians 5:6
since in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor lack of circumcision is worth anything. All that matters is faith expressing itself through love.

1 Corinthians 7:18-19
Was a man called after he had been circumcised? Then he must remain circumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should remain uncircumcised. 19 To be circumcised is of no importance, and to be uncircumcised is of no importance. What matters is keeping God’s commandments.


Paul commanded the Christians to not become circumcised because Jesus Christ had fulfilled/completed the first covenant. The first covenant was no longer in force. The New Covenant Christians had their own religious traditions.


Christians have always kept the Lord's Day, Sunday, as their worship day. It has been their tradition for 2000 years.

Revelation 1:10
On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,

1 Corinthians 11:2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, stand firm, brethren, and hold fast to the traditions that you have been taught, whether by word of mouth or by a letter of ours.

I don't have anything more to add to this discussion.

Jan001 said:

No, the Sabbath was a specific commandment for the Israelites/Jews only.

Click to expand...

What does the Lord have to say about this, because its not something we can find in Scriptures.

These are all thus saith the Lord's.

The Sabbath started at Creation Exo 20:11 made for man Mark 2:27 the Sabbath is part of God's perfect plan before sin, can you please tell me where Adam was a Jew? According to Scripture he was just man.

And again..

Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

NT:

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and the word Jesus used means mankind in Greek and Adam in Hebrew.

Why we see this in the NT

Acts 13:4242 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

Jan001 said:

Here is the plainly written Scripture:

Exodus 31:13
“Say to the children of Israel, ‘You shall observe my Sabbaths, for the Sabbath is a sign between me and you for all your generations, so that you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

Click to expand...

Amen! Why the NC is written to Israel too Heb 8:10 and we are grafted into God’s covenant promise through faith Gal 3:26-29

Isa 56:6 Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

Jan001 said:

Gentiles are not commanded to keep the Sabbaths. This is not difficult for most people to understand. You are adding a Sabbath commandment for the Gentile Christians.

Click to expand...

Where does it say this? The Scripture clearly says God’s people keeps God’s commandments. Are God’s commandments according to you or to God Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 I am going with God. His written and spoken Testimony Exo 31:18 that while our opinions are important to us, there is no one greater than He.

Jan001 said:

Christians also do not obey the OT circumcision laws/commandments, which were commanded for the Israelites/Jews.

Click to expand...

Actually the Scriptures only teach that circumcision is not a means of salvation. It was never meant to do so, which the Jews were teaching and Paul was correcting. Circumcision had a whole other purpose that I would be happy to provide with Scriptures.

Jan001 said:

Genesis 17:12
Whenever baby boys are eight days old, they will be circumcised, whether they are your own children or the children of those whom you bought and who are foreigners and not of your bloodline.

Genesis 17:13
You must circumcise those who are born in your house and those who are bought by you. Thus, my covenant will be marked in your flesh as an eternal covenant.

Genesis 17:14
The male who is not circumcised, the one whose flesh of his member is not circumcised, is to be cut off from his people. He will have violated my covenant.”


If, according to your understanding, that the eternal covenant OT commandments cannot change, why did Paul command this for the Christians?

Click to expand...

Not sure your point or how it relates to the Sabbath. Circumcision was never in the Ten Commandments. It is part of the law of Moses.

Jan001 said:

1 Corinthians 7:18-19
Was a man called after he had been circumcised? Then he must remain circumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should remain uncircumcised. 19 To be circumcised is of no importance, and to be uncircumcised is of no importance. What matters is keeping God’s commandments.

Click to expand...

Exactly- circumcision or no circumcision but what matters is keeping the commandments of God. Now tell me where in Scripture does it say the Sabbath is not a commandment of God. God said it is written by Gods Authority Exo 20:8-11 Deut 4:13 that I am certain there is no one above.

Jan001 said:

Paul commanded the Christians to not become circumcised because Jesus Christ had fulfilled/completed the first covenant. The first covenant was no longer in force. The New Covenant Christians had their own religious traditions.

Click to expand...

Still has nothing to do with my post.

Jan001 said:

Christians have always kept the Lord's Day, Sunday, as their worship day. It has been their tradition for 2000 years.

Revelation 1:10
On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,

Click to expand...

The Lords day is the Sabbath according to God’s own Words..

Isa 58:13 “If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,

That did not change

Mark 2:28 Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

Or ever will thus saith the Lord

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Does not say Sunday best not to add what’s not there especially when its words proceeding out of the mouth of God we are told to live by Mat4:4 Pro 30:5-6

Jan001 said:

1 Corinthians 11:2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, stand firm, brethren, and hold fast to the traditions that you have been taught, whether by word of mouth or by a letter of ours.

Click to expand...

Never were these verses meant to use against the commandments of God. Jesus made that clear.

Mat 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father [a]or mother.’ Thus you have made the [b]commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people [c]draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

Jan001 said:

I don't have anything more to add to this discussion.

Click to expand...

No problem, take care.

SabbathBlessings said:

Thankfully you do not speak for everyone or God, just yourself.

Click to expand...

Scriptures are clear enough about purposes for the law. One position that's not on the table is claiming to be legally compliant while others are not.

SabbathBlessings said:

God gives us another option, I would encourage people to take.

John 15:5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you[b] will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

The Sabbath is a commandment of God part of God's own Testimony Exo 20:8-11 Exo 20:6 Exo 31:18. I never accused anyone of anything, just encouraging people to get back to what the God of the Bible said Jesus told us to live by Mat4:4

Click to expand...

IF you want to throw down options, how about be thankful any way Christ is preached, in pretence or in truth, Phil. 1:18 and recognize that other may esteem another day than yours or everyday the same,

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

I have no issues with Saturday worship. Fantastic. It's sometimes fun to do a passover celebration meal with Christian Messianc's from time to time. Great!

Unfortunately the laws can turn out to be extremely divisive, as history shows. Israel was divided and scattered because they were illegal on the inside, even while keeping Sabbath.

God is not kind to lying hypocrisy. And rightfully so.

Jan001 said:

No, the Sabbath was a specific commandment for the Israelites/Jews only.

Here is the plainly written Scripture:

Exodus 31:13
“Say to the children of Israel, ‘You shall observe my Sabbaths, for the Sabbath is a sign between me and you for all your generations, so that you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.


Gentiles are not commanded to keep the Sabbaths. This is not difficult for most people to understand. You are adding a Sabbath commandment for the Gentile Christians.

Christians also do not obey the OT circumcision laws/commandments, which were commanded for the Israelites/Jews.

Genesis 17:12
Whenever baby boys are eight days old, they will be circumcised, whether they are your own children or the children of those whom you bought and who are foreigners and not of your bloodline.

Genesis 17:13
You must circumcise those who are born in your house and those who are bought by you. Thus, my covenant will be marked in your flesh as an eternal covenant.

Genesis 17:14
The male who is not circumcised, the one whose flesh of his member is not circumcised, is to be cut off from his people. He will have violated my covenant.”


If, according to your understanding, that the eternal covenant OT commandments cannot change, why did Paul command this for the Christians?

Galatians 5:2
Listen to me! I, Paul, tell you that if you allow yourselves to be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you.

Galatians 5:6
since in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor lack of circumcision is worth anything. All that matters is faith expressing itself through love.

1 Corinthians 7:18-19
Was a man called after he had been circumcised? Then he must remain circumcised. Was a man uncircumcised when he was called? He should remain uncircumcised. 19 To be circumcised is of no importance, and to be uncircumcised is of no importance. What matters is keeping God’s commandments.


Paul commanded the Christians to not become circumcised because Jesus Christ had fulfilled/completed the first covenant. The first covenant was no longer in force. The New Covenant Christians had their own religious traditions.


Christians have always kept the Lord's Day, Sunday, as their worship day. It has been their tradition for 2000 years.

Revelation 1:10
On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,

1 Corinthians 11:2 I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the traditions just as I passed them on to you.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, stand firm, brethren, and hold fast to the traditions that you have been taught, whether by word of mouth or by a letter of ours.

I don't have anything more to add to this discussion.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately the above is also a hollow position with no merit whatsoever.

The laws are very specifically AGAINST the lawlessness within everyone, and every Word of God applies to everyone. One can be entirely GLAD to uphold the laws precisely for this purpose and even rejoice that this is the case.

The pitfall is when we try to claim that we are legally compliant and it really gets ugly when we claim others are not in compliance. Whether we are non compliant under the law or apart from the law really doesn't matter. The fact remains the same. We are technically all non compliant at all times.

Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3, Mark 7:21-23, Romans 3:9, Romans 3:19,

Even the GREAT and most fantastic statement in the entire Bible, Paul's summary of every command in the scriptures and the technical how to keep in compliance with them all, in Romans 13:8-10, which God didn't even put in the 10 commandments and stuck it in the obscurity of Leviticus, the house of the priests, still can not be kept because of the simple fact of evil present within everyone. One might think this would be the most obvious showing of the sum of humanity on the face of it, yet in the church we just can't seem to see it. Sad ain't it? We ignore our evil, excuse it, cover it up, justify it, are hypocritical about it, and LIE about it, deny it.

On and on it goes, never being able to nail it down.

Which is why we are ALL in so much dire need of the Absolute Mercy and Grace of God in Christ, now and forever.

The laws don't have to change in the new earth. People shall be changed when the evil usurpers within our own sorry hearts are driven out. That would be the tempter and his messengers.

Jan001 said:

Christians have always kept the Lord's Day, Sunday, as their worship day. It has been their tradition for 2000 years.

Click to expand...

Not from the Bible. There has always been a counterfeit for every Biblical Truth - we are in spiritual war and its all over our worship, which Jesus relates to obedience to God's commandments Mar7:7-13Mat 15:3-14 Rev 14:11-12 His version not man. Whoever we obey is who we serve Rom6:16

We were warned God's times and laws would be changed, not by God and the only law that is also a time is the Sabbath commandment. Dan 7:25 and see a clear history of it being changed and who changed it that sadly most follow instead of the God of the Bible.

It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
—Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.

Click to expand...

Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?

A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174

Click to expand...

Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
—Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50

Click to expand...

... you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify.
—The Faith of Our Fathers, by James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, 88th edition, page 89. Originally published in 1876, republished and Copyright 1980 by TAN Books and Publishers, Inc., pages 72-73.

Click to expand...

So do we follow a church who admits they changed God's Sabbath, not on Biblical authority, but their own, or do we follow the God of the Bible and obey Him. We will all have to make such decisions very soon that will effect the rest of our lives Rev 22:11

Why we were warned after the death of the apostles

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock.

2 Tim 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

God is calling us out of these false teachings Rev 18:4 and back to what the God of the Bible said, we are to live by Mat4:4 before its too late Rev 22:11 Rev 22:14-15

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Click to expand...

Please find the word Sabbath in Rom 14 and when does what man esteems trump one of God's commandments and written Testimony? They were not arguing over if they should obey or not obey God's commandments. This was strictly about days man elevates, much like we do with Easter and Christmas which are not religious holidays but some Christians keep them as such. Not about if the apostles should obey God or not. Why we need to be careful with Paul's writings 2Peter3:16

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Unfortunately the laws can turn out to be extremely divisive, as history shows. Israel was divided and scattered because they were illegal on the inside, even while keeping Sabbath.

Click to expand...

Not according to Scripture

Eze 20:13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

You can keep the Sabbath, but if you are breaking any of the other 9 commandments you are still a transgressor of God's Law and the same is true in reverse James 2:11

BelieveItOarKnot said:

God is not kind to lying hypocrisy. And rightfully so.

Click to expand...

Agreed, nor does He turn a blind eye to disobedience of His commandments. Isa 58:13 Rev 22:15 1 John 2:4 Mat7:23 etc. its the theme throughout the entire bible that most have followed in that same path of disobedience Heb4:11

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Even the GREAT and most fantastic statement in the entire Bible, Paul's summary of every command in the scriptures and the technical how to keep in compliance with them all, in Romans 13:8-10, which God didn't even put in the 10 commandments

Click to expand...

Not according to Scripture, its what Paul was quoting from, the Ten Commandments, from the second tablet the laws that deal with loving neighbor

Rom 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [a]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

The Ten Commandments​

20 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

SabbathBlessings said:

Not according to Scripture, its what Paul was quoting from, the Ten Commandments, the laws that deal with loving neighbor

Rom 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [a]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 20 - New King James Version

The Ten Commandments - And God spoke all these words, saying: “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. “You shall have no other gods before Me. “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above...

www.biblegateway.com

The Ten Commandments​

20 And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of [a]bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor [b]serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting[c] the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

Click to expand...

It's always a question of the "or else" part ain't it?

BelieveItOarKnot said:

It's always a question of the "or else" part ain't it?

Click to expand...

The promises have always been conditional.

Deut 30:15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil,

Condition: life and good
16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess.

Condition and what evil and death looks like (disobedience) worshipping other gods is anything we place above God, why the Ten Commandments really are if we break one we break them all.

17 But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn away, and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I announce to you today that you shall surely perish; you shall not prolong your days in the land which you cross over the Jordan to go in and possess.

19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live; 20 that you may love the Lord your God, that you may obey His voice, and that you may cling to Him, for He is your life and the length of your days; and that you may dwell in the land which the Lord swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”

Its the same choices we have....

Blessings for those who walk in His ways and keep His commandments (His version Deut 4:13 Exo31:18 James 2:11)

Rev 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Or curses for disobedience- which is rebellion, sin and unbelief. Heb 3:7-19

Breaking any of God's commandments James2:11

Rev 22:15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
1 John 2:4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

SabbathBlessings said:

The promises have always been conditional.

Click to expand...

Both sides of the laws apply, both blessings and cursings.

Since all are sinners and all at a minimum are defiled by evil within, Mark 7:21-23 it would seem you reject and ignore those facts and curses.

SabbathBlessings said:

Deut 30:15 “See, I have set before you today life and good, death and evil, 16 in that I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that you may live and multiply; and the Lord your God will bless you in the land which you go to possess.

Now here's the condition

against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life,

Click to expand...

SabbathBlessings said:

Its the same choices we have....

Click to expand...

There is no choice to eliminate the evil set within everyone. Mark 7:21-23 and the identical fact in Matt. is not eliminated or avoided by any choice.

We are directed to do good but that's not all that's transpiring within. Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:17-23 for easy examples

All precisely to direct us to God's Mercy in Christ, who remains against and condemns the evil and sin regardless

We can be honest by submitting to the facts or simply be made lying hypocrites by the fact

SabbathBlessings said:

Or curses for disobedience- which is rebellion, sin and unbelief. Heb 3:7-19

Breaking any of God's commandments James2:11

Click to expand...

The evil in no man complies. The general point, and subsequent futility to say otherwise with an ugly outcome of false self justifications

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Both sides of the laws apply, both blessings and cursings.

Click to expand...

Not according to our Bibles its a choice

19 I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life

Whoever we yield ourselves servants to obey is who we serve. So if we are not obeying God's voice, by default, its the other spirit

Rom6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Since all are sinners and all at a minimum are defiled by evil within, Mark 7:21-23 it would seem you reject and ignore those facts and curses.

Click to expand...

It doesn't say all are sinners, it says all have sinned. We do not need to continue down that path if we are abiding in Jesus and He in us. John 15: 3-10 1 John 2:1-6 Scripture says we must confess and forsake our sins Pro 28:13

BelieveItOarKnot said:

There is no choice to eliminate the evil set within everyone. Mark 7:21-23 and the identical fact in Matt. is not eliminated or avoided by any choice.

Click to expand...

Your commentary does not match what Jesus says in Mat 7:21-23. Jesus is indicating there are two different people. One who hears His voice and does His will and one who does their will and commits lawlessness (sin) One group is blessed Rev 22:14, the other receives the curse (Rev22:15) He indicates many believers will say Lord Lord only for Him to say He does not know them and Scripture tells us how He knows us and does not. 1John2:3-4

BelieveItOarKnot said:

We are directed to do good but that's not all that's transpiring within. Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:17-23 for easy examples

All precisely to direct us to God's Mercy in Christ, who remains against and condemns the evil and sin regardless

We can be honest by submitting to the facts or simply be made lying hypocrites by the fact

Click to expand...

Its best to let God sort this out and not us try to as we do not know what is in someone's heart, only God does and nothing anyone can hide from Him Ecc12:13-14 Heb4:13

BelieveItOarKnot said:

The evil in no man complies. The general point, and subsequent futility to say otherwise with an ugly outcome of false self justifications

Click to expand...

Sorry you feel that way, its not what Jesus promises, which is Who I place my faith in. Its all about choices and who we submit ourselves too. The devil wants us to believe we can't overcome and I can see why people believe this to be true, but Jesus said there is a narrow path we can take Mat 7:13-14 and He has a people who overcomes Rev 14:12 because they hear His voice and follow Him and do what He says, not the popular crowd.

Revelation 2:7
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” ’

Revelation 2:11

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death.” ’

Revelation 2:17
“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it.” ’

Revelation 2:26
And he who overcomes, and keeps My works (Exo32:16) until the end, to him I will give power over the nations—

Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

Revelation 3:12
He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on himMy new name.

Revelation 3:21
To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

Revelation 21:7
He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.


God promises He has a people who overcomes that will lead to reconciliation

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Its a matter of what voice we will submit ourselves to. What popular man teaches or what the God of the Bible says, we are to live by Mat4:4

SabbathBlessings said:

Not according to our Bibles its a choice

Click to expand...

Oh, you think you can just wipe away the "cursings" parts? The wrath parts? The adverse judgments parts? Pretty funny to only grab all the good stuff and lay all the bad stuff on other people. Commonly known as hypocrisy.

Basically denying half the scriptures as applicable to you

SabbathBlessings said:

Whoever we yield ourselves servants to obey is who we serve. So if we are not obeying God's voice, by default, its the other spirit

Click to expand...

No one becomes sinless, ever, in this present life. That is simply a religious delusion.

SabbathBlessings said:

It doesn't say all are sinners, it says all have sinned.

Click to expand...

IF your claim is by showing up to church on Saturday you are sinless I'd again consider that simple religious delusion quite contrary to what scriptures present.

Romans 9:
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

And of course your position is in utter and total denial of Mark 7:21-23 or if you accidentally did have an evil defiling thought you'd excuse on some nonsensical basis.

SabbathBlessings said:

Jesus is indicating there are two different people. One who hears His voice and does His will and one who does their will and commits lawlessness (sin)

Click to expand...

Utterly ridiculous. IF Paul himself had immoral thoughts and did evil, so do we all. Every Word of God applies to ALL of us. Not just the ones we like. I'd consider your claim above to have a Mack truck sized hole in it.

Your position is merely one of grabbing all the good stuff and denying the obvious and contrary Words of God that also apply to everyone.

Self justifications are just another form of religious delusion. I don't blame the people engaged in such notions. These things are led by the darkness we ALL bear internally.

Some people can take a hard look at themselves and come to an honest conclusion. Most can't and that's because we all deal with a very real internal adversary, the tempter.

BelieveItOarKnot said:

Oh, you think you can just wipe away the "cursings" parts? The wrath parts? The adverse judgments parts? Pretty funny to only grab all the good stuff and lay all the bad stuff on other people. Commonly known as hypocrisy.

Basically denying half the scriptures as applicable to you

No one becomes sinless, ever, in this present life. That is simply a religious delusion.


IF your claim is by showing up to church on Saturday you are sinless I'd again consider that simple religious delusion quite contrary to what scriptures present.

Romans 9:
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

And of course your position is in utter and total denial of Mark 7:21-23 or if you accidentally did have an evil defiling thought you'd excuse on some nonsensical basis.

Utterly ridiculous. IF Paul himself had immoral thoughts and did evil, so do we all. Every Word of God applies to ALL of us. Not just the ones we like. I'd consider your claim above to have a Mack truck sized hole in it.

Your position is merely one of grabbing all the good stuff and denying the obvious and contrary Words of God that also apply to everyone.

Self justifications are just another form of religious delusion. I don't blame the people engaged in such notions. These things are led by the darkness we ALL bear internally.

Some people can take a hard look at themselves and come to an honest conclusion. Most can't and that's because we all deal with a very real internal adversary, the tempter.

Click to expand...

I believe we are way to far apart in our understanding of God's word, so I am going to leave it as wish you well.

SabbathBlessings said:

I believe we are way to far apart in our understanding of God's word, so I am going to leave it as wish you well.

Click to expand...

Obviously legalists serve only to dodge the more dire aspects of disobedience, which is merely a servant trying to save their own hide, and that is no servant at all.

The very fact that you think you have to make a choice means the aspects of disobedience are imbedded.

If you love Me keep My commandments John 14:15 I guess Jesus was a legalist to the people who love Jesus and want to obey Him. Sad teaching nor is this teaching found in our Bibles.

SabbathBlessings said:

If you love Me keep My commandments John 14:15 I guess Jesus was a legalist. Sad teaching.

Click to expand...

His commandment is single minded. Love your neighbors as "yourself."

Every command in the scripture is fulfilled in that.

Nevertheless the evil present within us all can not do that, and instead will lead people headlong into the opposite direction, exonerating their own factual evil and lay being "illegal" on others.

I'd suggest there are more unbelievers in compliance than Sabbath keepers. 1 John 4;7

BelieveItOarKnot said:

His commandment is single minded. Love your neighbors as "yourself."

Every command in the scripture is fulfilled in that.

Nevertheless the evil present within us all can not do that, and instead will lead people headlong into the opposite direction, exonerating their own factual evil and lay being "illegal" on others.

I'd suggest there are more unbelievers in compliance than Sabbath keepers. 1 John 4;7

Click to expand...

God wrote His laws, Heb 8:10 in our hearts not a law. The summary of God's Law does not delete the details. Rom 13:9 nor does a single commandment delete the commandment to love God with all our heart, mind and soul, the greatest commandment that is summed up by the Ten Commandments as seen in Deut 6:5 Deut 5

SabbathBlessings said:

God wrote His laws, Heb 8:10 in our hearts not a law.

Click to expand...

The entirety of the law is fulfilled in loving our neighbors as ourselves.

SabbathBlessings said:

The summary of God's Law does not delete the details. Rom 13:9 nor does a single commandment delete the commandment to love God with all our heart, mind and soul, the greatest commandment that is summed up by the Ten Commandments as seen in Deut 6:5 Deut 5

Click to expand...

Your position dodges the obvious. God remains against the evil in everyone.

Sabbath keepers, no exceptions.

Again fulfilled does not mean the opposite of what Jesus taught. If you love Me keep My commandments. John 14:15 Don’t break or teach others to break the least of these commandments Matthew 5:19 and the summary does not delete the details. It’s like saying the summary of the constitution is justice but does that mean it deletes all the amendments that make up the constitution, of course not. It’s ludicrous to teach all we have to do is love our neighbor but can steal from them, and we do not need to love God with all our heart mind and soul as Jesus taught and that somehow translates into we can worship other gods or break any of God’s commandments and Testimony,. Not a doctrine coming from the Holy Word of God Isa8:20

Not everyone serves the devil where evil comes from, we are given another choice which is shown through our obedience Rom6:16. Since we are going in circles best for me to move on.