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Might the Laws of God actually change on the New Earth?

BelieveItOarKnot

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As I said, sin is of the devil, no doubt, but its a matter of who is bigger in our life.
The point being, when anyone claims they are for example, legally obedient, that can not logically encompass the evil present in the form of the adversary, and therefore exactly no one other than God Himself in the flesh was ever "legally obedient." Lying hypocrites, yes. But legally obedient? Never.

We are all in a perpetual state of sin, never sinless and that is in fact courtesy of the adversary. Which no legalist ever factors into their claims.
The devil or God. I believe our God is bigger to keep us from sin, than the devil is to keep us in sin. Its all about choices.
Sins are not counted against people to begin with, 2 Cor. 5:19

Sins are and will continue to be counted against the devil and his messengers.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The point being, when anyone claims they are for example, legally obedient, that can not logically encompass the evil present in the form of the adversary, and therefore exactly no one other than God Himself in the flesh was ever "legally obedient." Lying hypocrites, yes. But legally obedient? Never.

We are all in a perpetual state of sin, never sinless and that is in fact courtesy of the adversary. Which no legalist ever factors into their claims.

Sins are not counted against people to begin with, 2 Cor. 5:19

Sins are and will continue to be counted against the devil and his messengers.
The Bible teaches something different that there is a people who overcomes Rev 2:7,11,17,26 Rev 3:5, 12, 21, Rev 21:7 Rev 22:14, Rev 14:12 etc and sin is counted against us, unless we confess and turn from sin. Pro 28:13 1 John 1:9

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [g]says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Mat 7:23 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
1Jn 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

Whoever is teaching that we are saved in our sins and sins aren't counted against us without turning to Jesus, repenting and forsaking is not doing anyone any favors, sadly. Why would anyone want to continue in sins Rom 6:1-4, if we have Jesus, considering what our sins did to Him at the Cross.

We will probably just have to agree to disagree
 
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ViaCrucis

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Half siblings.

It's only when you want to put a doctrine before what the bible says (IE Mary's perpetual virginity) that you get something like "oh they're not blood related" or "oh they're 2nd cousins" John the Baptist was Jesus' cousin and he is not referred to by the onlookers as Jesus' "brother" but James is.

a plain reading, after having read the first couple chapters of Matthew, would indicate that they'd be half siblings, having Mary as their mother and Joseph as their Father while Jesus had Mary as His mother and the Holy Spirit as His Father.

If you don't take extrabiblical teachings/doctrines into play, that is the conclusion you come to. Forcing a doctrine into the bible is probably not the best way to go.

Except that you are the one forcing your beliefs onto the Bible. I'm not forcing anything, did you not pay attention to the fact that I said I don't know?

My position is I don't know. Because the Bible doesn't say.

The only person here imposing their beliefs onto the Bible here is you.

Scripture doesn't say they were half-siblings. That's you saying that.

A plain reading says that while Mary was pregnant, she and Joseph weren't intimate. It says nothing about what happened after. You have to add your own assumptions to get anything more than that.

A plain reading says that Jesus had siblings, but does not tell us the precise relationship between Jesus and His siblings. Were they half siblings? Maybe. Were they step-siblings? Maybe. Were they cousins? Maybe.

The Greek word is ambiguous. And we know it is, because it even calls Christians "brothers" even though we are not (necessarily) biologically related, even though this includes both men and women. We are brothers, in Christ, because of our adoption by the Father. When we are called "brothers" it does not mean we are blood-related, it means our union together into the Household of God the Father through His only-begotten Son.

An adelphos, a brother, can be a full sibling, it can be a half-sibling, it can be a step-sibling, it can be figurative (close friends can be called "brothers"), it has a range of meanings. This is obvious from how the word itself is used; and this isn't weird because we do the same thing with the English word "brother". So this isn't even a foreign concept, it's one we are all familiar with.

The question, fundamentally, is who precisely were Jesus' brothers and sisters, were they the children of Mary and Joseph? Maybe. But the text doesn't tell us this.

And we can't just ignore ancient opinions of the Church as though they don't matter at all. Those same ancient opinions are, for example, why we call the Gospel of Matthew the Gospel of Matthew. It's why we have a New Testament at all. So rejecting, as a matter of principle, all extra-biblical information is not piety, it's foolishness. Instead such things should be measured, considered, tested; not assumed but given adequate weight based on merit.

If you want to do away with all extra-biblical information and context then you have to throw your whole Bible away. And that's clearly not something anyone wants to do, so take a more full measured and consistent approach and study, and be humble, and weigh things.

You are free to reach your opinion that that they were half-siblings. You are not free to claim, dogmatically, that they are; because you do not have the authority to add to God's word.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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There is nothing in the NC about mixing fabrics,

Or observing the Sabbath.

But that doesn't stop you from imposing your sectarian man-made traditions as though they were divinely sanctioned dogma on everyone.

So when you take the WHOLE of God's Law seriously, then get back to me about the Sabbath. Until then you're jus being hypocritical. who wants to force your sects peculiar teachings onto God's Church. As far as I'm concerned, your sect's founder's beliefs about the Sabbath are of the same value as my pocket lint. I stand on the word of God, not the words of Ellen White. And God's word says nothing about Christians observing the Sabbath, in fact it says the opposite: Those who insist on one day over another are engaging in rebellious sinful behavior and violating the conscience and liberty of the Faithful. So take your Sabbatarian claptrap and send it right back to hell where it came from.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Or observing the Sabbath.
I am not sure if you missed the Scriptures I posted in my post but it literally say in the NT that Sabbath keeping (observing) remains for the people of God. And we see this in the life of Jesus and the apostles keeping faithfully every Sabbath. Luke 4:16 Mat 12:12 Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 Acts 16:13 Acts 17:2 Acts 15:21 etc.


Heb 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
sabbatismos: Sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Pronunciation: sab-bat-is-mos'
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: Sabbath rest
Meaning:
a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
But that doesn't stop you from imposing your sectarian man-made traditions as though they were divinely sanctioned dogma on everyone.

So when you take the WHOLE of God's Law seriously, then get back to me about the Sabbath. Until then you're jus being hypocritical.
Already addressed. Do you keep the commandment to not murder thy neighbor in the commandments of God. Do you not mix fabrics from the law of Moses? Where does it say not to do so in the NT? Please show me where not mixing fabrics is in the Ten Commandments. There is a law that not a jot or tittle will pass Mat 5:18-19, God’s own Testimony- His covenant He promises not to alter His words Psa 89:34 as its shown in the ark of God’s covenant in heaven Rev 15:5 Rev 11:19 where His word is settled Psa 119:89 written personally not by a human-being but divinely by the God of the Universe. The law of Moses, written by man on paper as it fades placed outside the ark as a witness against Deut 31:24-26 and was added until the Seed. Gal 3:19. Sin in the NC is still transgressing God’s commandments 1 John 3:4 James 2:11 Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 22:14-15.
who wants to force your sects peculiar teachings onto God's Church.
I am not asking you to believe me, I am suggesting we should believe God. The Ten Commandments is God's own Testimony, written personally by God. Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 not just once, but twice. If we can't believe His own Testimony, not sure the point of Scripture as that's what its about, the testimony of Jesus Christ though His prophets and apostles. How do we believe their testimony but not God’s own Testimony? In God’s church, His saints keep His commandments- His version, not mans. Rev 14:12. Even the apostles taught we ought to obey God over man.
As far as I'm concerned, your sect's founder's beliefs about the Sabbath are of the same value as my pocket lint. I stand on the word of God, not the words of Ellen White. And God's word says nothing about Christians observing the Sabbath, in fact it says the opposite: Those who insist on one day over another are engaging in rebellious sinful behavior and violating the conscience and liberty of the Faithful. So take your Sabbatarian claptrap and send it right back to hell where it came from.

-CryptoLutheran
I see why you pointed to EGW, most people do when they don't have a biblical argument regarding the Sabbath. Ellen White never gave the commandment to keep the Sabbath day holy, God did Exo 20:8-11 written by God, spoken by God on His authority, no different than the commandment to only worship Him or not murder our neighbor, breaking one we break them all James 2:11. She just points us back to what God said, when He asked us to Remember, its probably not something we should forget.

We all have free will to obey God and His commandments or follow the popular traditions of man. Jesus speaks of this exact scenario quoting from the same unit of Ten and warns us where the path leads that follows man. Mat 15:3-19 Mark 7:7-13. Sounds like your mind is settled on this matter, so I wish you well.

Guess we will have to agree to disagree.
 
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FreeinChrist

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ADVISOR HAT


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This thread had a clean up of posts that conflict with the site Statement of Faith. Non-Trinitarianism and gnosticism is not allowed.
 
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Jan001

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But the Law did pass away as written in. Acts 28:25-28 and so does the book of Hebrews !!

dan p
The letter of the law (Law of Moses) passed away after Jesus died on the cross. The spirit of the law (Christ's Law) will always be in effect.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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The letter of the law (Law of Moses) passed away after Jesus died on the cross. The spirit of the law (Christ's Law) will always be in effect.
Uh, no. The laws are and remain fully against all evil within mankind, period.

Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

Those who conspire to toss away the entirety or even part of the O.T. don't have a clue of what they talking about

We also know the scriptures, all of them, speak of Jesus. Do we then toss out what speaks of Jesus? Again, firmly, never. Not as believers.

John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Jesus WROTE the scriptures through the law and the prophets. Everywhere we read a RED LETTER statement of God it is in fact a statement of the Living Word, Jesus


1 Peter 1:10-11
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

I would readily concede that it's difficult to get there, but tossing or elimination is NEVER a legitimate option. Those who teach such things should not be listened to as they have no idea what they are doing
 
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Jan001

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Uh, no. The laws are and remain fully against all evil within mankind, period.

Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4, Deut. 8:3

Those who conspire to toss away the entirety or even part of the O.T. don't have a clue of what they talking about

........

I would readily concede that it's difficult to get there, but tossing or elimination is NEVER a legitimate option. Those who teach such things should not be listened to as they have no idea what they are doing
The spirit of the Law of Moses will never end. The letter of the Law of Moses ended with Jesus' perfect, bloody, sacrificial death on the cross.

The spirit of the Law of Moses is underlined in this passage:

Luke 10:25-28 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as .yourself 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.”
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The spirit of the Law of Moses will never end. The letter of the Law of Moses ended with Jesus' perfect, bloody, sacrificial death on the cross.

The spirit of the Law of Moses is underlined in this passage:

Luke 10:25-28 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as .yourself 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.”
How does that work? That we can break the letter of love the Lord thy God with all our heart and love thy neighbor. It sounds like an oxymoron - love God with everything you have but not in letter so we should disobey what He actually says. Thats not something I am familiar with in the Scriptures.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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How does that work? That we can break the letter of love the Lord thy God with all our heart and love thy neighbor. It sounds like an oxymoron - love God with everything you have but not in letter so we should disobey what He actually says. Thats not something I am familiar with in the Scriptures.
With "all" our heart is inclusive of an evil conscience, that any common sense would perceive as "never legally obedient." Heb. 10:22

Not with some phony hypocritical half witted position that tries to cover up the obvious problems within mankind, Mark 7:21-23

Therefore God Is Merciful, always, and the evil within no one fools Him by showing up to a building any day of the week

Ecclesiastes 5:1
Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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With "all" our heart is inclusive of an evil conscience, that any common sense would perceive as "never legally obedient." Heb. 10:22

Not with some phony hypocritical half witted position that tries to cover up the obvious problems within mankind, Mark 7:21-23

Therefore God Is Merciful, always, and the evil within no one fools Him by showing up to a building any day of the week

Ecclesiastes 5:1
Keep thy foot when thou goest to the house of God, and be more ready to hear, than to give the sacrifice of fools: for they consider not that they do evil.
Thanks, but that didn't answer my question.

If you are saying it is evil to "show up to a building" one day a week, which I am assuming you mean church, what are you saying about God when He said the Sabbath is a "holy convocation" Lev 23:20 which means gathering- coming together to worship the Lord as we see in the life of Jesus and the apostles and in the New Heaven and New Earth Isa 66:23. Its probably best to let God be God, while I agree there is nothing we can do to fool Him, He knows everything Ecc 12:13-14 but there is quite a warning in Scripture about calling something good evil and something evil good. Isa 5:20
 
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Jan001

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How does that work? That we can break the letter of love the Lord thy God with all our heart and love thy neighbor. It sounds like an oxymoron - love God with everything you have but not in letter so we should disobey what He actually says. Thats not something I am familiar with in the Scriptures.
The letter of the Law of Moses (the first covenant law of commandments and ordinances) was fulfilled/completed by Jesus Christ's perfect, bloody, sacrificial death on the cross. The letter of the Law of Moses was nailed to the cross. Matthew 5:17

Colossians 2:13-17
And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the principalities and powers and made a public example of them, triumphing over them in him.
16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. 17 These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Ephesians 2:13-18
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near; 18 for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.


The festivals (religious), new moons, and sabbaths of the Jews are no longer legally binding on anyone. Therefore, do not listen to or obey the people who claim that you must keep the new moons, religious festivals/feasts, and sabbaths (the law of commandments and ordinances) of the first covenant Israelites/Jews. The first covenant was completed/fulfilled by Jesus Christ's death on the cross. The first covenant is obsolete. Hebrews 8:13

The spirit of the Law of Moses (first covenant) came into being back when God ensouled Adam. Because of the Israelites' reprehensible behavior in the desert, they were yoked with the letter of the Law of Moses (613 commandments and ordinances).
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The letter of the Law of Moses (the first covenant law of commandments and ordinances) was fulfilled/completed by Jesus Christ's perfect, bloody, sacrificial death on the cross. The letter of the Law of Moses was nailed to the cross. Matthew 5:17

Colossians 2:13-17
And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 having canceled the bond which stood against us with its legal demands; this he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15 He disarmed the principalities and powers and made a public example of them, triumphing over them in him.
16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. 17 These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Ephesians 2:13-18
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near in the blood of Christ. 14 For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near; 18 for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.


The festivals (religious), new moons, and sabbaths of the Jews are no longer legally binding on anyone. Therefore, do not listen to or obey the people who claim that you must keep the new moons, religious festivals/feasts, and sabbaths (the law of commandments and ordinances) of the first covenant Israelites/Jews. The first covenant was completed/fulfilled by Jesus Christ's death on the cross. The first covenant is obsolete. Hebrews 8:13

The spirit of the Law of Moses (first covenant) came into being back when God ensouled Adam. Because of the Israelites' reprehensible behavior in the desert, they were yoked with the letter of the Law of Moses (613 commandments and ordinances).
You didn't answer the question I asked what that looked like not obeying the letter of the law and how is not obeying what He actually said is loving God with all our heart, soul and mind, when its what Jesus told us to live by Mat 4:4. In Scripture almost every time we are told to love God with all our heart, mind, soul, came after telling to be obedient to God's commandments.

Regarding the rest of your post, in order to understand the Scriptures you posted, we first need to understand God's Covenant, which is not the law of Moses.

I do not think God could have been clearer what His Covenant was had He wrote it Himself- and He did!

Please show me where in any of these verses does it say the law of Moses? God claimed the Ten Commandments as His- no more were added to them God wrote them on stone and placed them under His mercy seat inside the ark both that was on earth Exo 25:21 and in heaven Heb 8:1-5 Rev 15:5 Rev 11:19 as it is His will Psa 40:8 and Testimony Exo 31:18 something He promised not to alter Psa 89:34 why the New Covenant is not established on all new laws as most people teach in error it is established on better promises. Heb8:6 it still has God's laws Heb8:10 now written on a better surface based on the promise of what He will do.

Deu 4:13 So He (God) declared to you His (God) covenant which He (God)commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He (God) wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Deu 5:22 "These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exo 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets.

In addition to the Ten Commandments- Moses wrote a separate law on paper as it fades, that was placed outside the ark as witness against Deut 31:9,24-26 that held the prescription for sin, sin of course is breaking God's law 1John3:4 James 2:11 Rom7:7. the law of Moses had things like animal sacrifices, the annual sabbaths feasts, feasts days, new moon festivals, blessing and curses for breaking God's Law and everything else aside from the Ten Commandments that God Himself wrote that is inside His ark.

Once we understand these important Biblical facts, we can better understand the New Covenant, the differences and the Scriptures you posted about the wall of separation by circumcision that Jesus ended at the Cross. Not the Law that defines sin and that when breaking separates us from God. Isa 59:2 Rev 22:14-15 Mat 7:21-23 Mat 5:19-30 etc
 
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Jan001

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You didn't answer the question I asked what that looked like not obeying the letter of the law and how is not obeying what He actually said is loving God with all our heart, soul and mind, when its what Jesus told us to live by Mat 4:4. In Scripture almost every time we are told to love God with all our heart, mind, soul, came after telling to be obedient to God's commandments.
The "letter of the law" (first covenant) was called this because it was written down in the Hebrew language on scrolls. This first covenant was also called the Law and the Law of Moses by the first-century Jews because it was Moses who presented this first covenant to the Israelites.

It consists of about 600 written statutes and ordinances (commands) by which Moses yoked the Israelites because of their disobedience in the desert.

Peter's reply to the Judaizers:

Acts 15:4-11
When they arrived in Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the Church and by the apostles and the elders, and they gave a report of all that God had accomplished through them. 5 But some from the group of Pharisees who had become believers stood up and declared, “It is necessary for the Gentiles to be circumcised and ordered to observe the Law of Moses.”

6 The apostles and the elders convened to consider this matter. 7 After a long period of debate, Peter stood up to address them. “Brethren,” he said, “you are well aware that in the early days God made his choice among you that it would be through my mouth that the Gentiles would hear the message of the gospel and become believers. 8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness by giving to them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us. 9 He made no distinction between them and us, for he purified their hearts by faith.

10 “Therefore, why are you
(Pharisee Christians) determined to try God’s patience by laying a yoke on the neck of the (Gentile Christian) disciples that neither we nor our ancestors have found easy to bear? 11 On the contrary, we believe that we are saved in the same way as they are, through the grace of the Lord Jesus.”


Regarding Matthew 4:4:
Jesus answered, “As it is written:
‘Man does not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of God.’


Jesus spoke through His Holy Spirit to Peter and to the other apostles about which ones of the first covenant requirements were to be commanded for new covenant Gentile converts to Christianity:

Acts 15:28-30
It is the decision of the Holy Spirit and also our decision not to lay any further burden upon you beyond these essentials: 29 you are to abstain from food that has been sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of animals that have been strangled, and from unchastity. If you avoid these, you will be doing what is right.


Are there Saturday sabbath requirements and circumcision requirements commanded for Gentile Christians? No, there are not.

Please show me where in any of these verses does it say the law of Moses?
The Jews who lived at the time of Jesus' lifetime on earth called God's first covenant with the Israelites the "Law of Moses."

1 Corinthians 9:9
In the Law of Moses it is written, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned,

One of the commandments in the Law of Moses:


Deuteronomy 25:4
Do not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain.


Luke 2:22
When the days for their purification were completed according to the Law of Moses, they brought the child up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord,

Luke 24:44
Then he said to them, “This is what I meant when I told you while I was still with you: Everything written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

John 7:23
Now if a man can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for making a man’s entire body completely healthy on the Sabbath?


The New Covenant is also called the Law of Christ.

Galatians 6:2
Bear one another’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:19-21
Although I am free and belong to no man, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible. 20 To the Jews, I became like a Jew in order to win the Jews. To those under the Law, I became like one under the Law—although I myself am not under the Law—in order to win over those under the Law. 21 To those outside the Law, I became like one outside the Law—although I am not outside the Law of God but am subject to the Law of Christ—in order to win over those outside the Law.


 
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SabbathBlessings

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The "letter of the law" (first covenant) was called this because it was written down in the Hebrew language on scrolls.
I take it you didn‘t read the Scriptures I posted. It would have really cleared up your entire reply had you done so.

Can you please point out the words of the covenant , the Ten Commandments, where it was written on scrolls? God said He wrote His covenant, the Ten Commandments with His own finger on stone and it says nothing about it being the law of Moses, God claimed them as His. Why do so many insist giving God’s work, His covenant that God claimed as His- MY covenant MY commandments to a human-being. Moses didn’t and he was there Exo 32:16.


Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Deu 4:13 So He (God) declared to you His (God) covenant which He (God)commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He (God) wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
This first covenant was also called the Law and the Law of Moses by the first-century Jews because it was Moses who presented this first covenant to the Israelites.
I see your words here, not God’s.

I am going to stick with what God said, I trust He knows His own covenant and what it entails. He tells us in such clear words. Sad so many choose their own words over God’s. This is the core of the issue - faith comes by hearing the word of God, yet when God tells us in His word, even His own Testimony , sadly so many people lay it aside for their own teachings not found in God’s word. We were warned this would happen 2 Tim 4:3-4

Deu 4:13 So He (God) declared to you His (God) covenant which He (God)commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He (God) wrote them on two tablets of stone.


Exo 34:28 So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.
It consists of about 600 written statutes and ordinances (commands) by which Moses yoked the Israelites because of their disobedience in the desert.
Again going off topic… and not all of the law of Moses is a yoke of bondage. For example, it contained the blessings along with the curses for breaking God's commandments.
Peter's reply to the Judaizers:

Acts 15:4-11
When they arrived in Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the Church and by the apostles and the elders, and they gave a report of all that God had accomplished through them. 5 But some from the group of Pharisees who had become believers stood up and declared, “It is necessary for the Gentiles to be circumcised and ordered to observe the Law of Moses.”
Yes, the law of Moses is not the Ten Commandments. If you would read the Scriptures I posted in the reply you are posting to, you should be able to plainly see the differences from God’s own written and spoken Testimony . You did not engage in my post , just went on to other arguments that are already addressed in the post you are relying to. Nor did you answer the one question I originally asked.
Regarding Matthew 4:4:
Jesus answered, “As it is written:
‘Man does not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes forth from the mouth of God.’


Jesus spoke through His Holy Spirit to Peter and to the other apostles about which ones of the first covenant requirements were to be commanded for new covenant Gentile converts to Christianity:
Thats not at all what Jesus said. He said to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, nothing about Peter. Peter is not God. Jesus was quoting OT Peter wasn’t even born.
Acts 15:28-30
It is the decision of the Holy Spirit and also our decision not to lay any further burden upon you beyond these essentials: 29 you are to abstain from food that has been sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of animals that have been strangled, and from unchastity. If you avoid these, you will be doing what is right.


Are there Saturday sabbath requirements and circumcision requirements commanded for Gentile Christians? No, there are not.
Where does it say Gentiles do not have to keep God’s commandments in this chapter? If you read in this very chapter they were keeping every Sabbath Mat 15:21 Jew and Gentiles Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 so it obviously does not say what you are claiming it says. If one beleives worshipping God on the day He set aside from the beginning as a blessing is a yoke or burden would certainly not be happy in the new heaven and new earth Isa 66:23
The Jews who lived at the time of Jesus' lifetime on earth called God's first covenant with the Israelites the "Law of Moses."
Again, nothing we can find in our Holy Bibles.
1 Corinthians 9:9
In the Law of Moses it is written, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain.” Is it for oxen that God is concerned,
The law of Moses that is not the Ten Commandments Exo 20:1-17 Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28
One of the commandments in the Law of Moses:

Deuteronomy 25:4
Do not muzzle an ox when it is treading out the grain.
Nothing about muzzling an oz in the Ten Commandments. Yes that comes from the law of Moses as stated in the post you are replying to.
Luke 2:22
When the days for their purification were completed according to the Law of Moses, they brought the child up to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord,
Nothing about purification laws in the Ten Commandments, yes they come from the law of Moses. You keep proving my point.

In contrast, we have Jesus quoting directly from the Ten Commandments- calling them the commandment of God. Moses while very important is not God.

Mat 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; quoting Exo 20:12 and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’

Luke 24:44
Then he said to them, “This is what I meant when I told you while I was still with you: Everything written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”

John 7:23
Now if a man can be circumcised on the Sabbath so that the Law of Moses may not be broken, why are you angry with me for making a man’s entire body completely healthy on the Sabbath?
Yes circumcision is not in the Ten Commandments but the law of Moses, again thanks for proving my point.
The New Covenant is also called the Law of Christ.

Galatians 6:2
Bear one another’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:19-21
Although I am free and belong to no man, I have made myself a slave to all so as to win over as many as possible. 20 To the Jews, I became like a Jew in order to win the Jews. To those under the Law, I became like one under the Law—although I myself am not under the Law—in order to win over those under the Law. 21 To those outside the Law, I became like one outside the Law—although I am not outside the Law of God but am subject to the Law of Christ—in order to win over those outside the Law.
No where does it say in these verses, the New Covenant is the law of Christ- the New Covenant God said He wrote His laws in the hearts and minds of His New Covenant believers Heb 8:10, sadly many people rebel against God’s laws so they do not subject themselves to them and therefore, makes themselves an enmity to God Rom 8:7-8. God’s Laws went from tables of stone to tablets of the heart 2 Cor 3:3 Heb8:10 There is no dichotomy between God’s law and Christ’s law as if Christ is not God. God keeps His promises not altering His words Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18. God did not make a mistake in His own Law that He wrote and He spoke that is under His mercy seat. Sadly, just His rebellious children laying aside God’s commandments in lieu of their own man-made commandments Mark 7:7-13 Mat 15:3-14 the path Jesus said leads one to a ditch. It’s a hard teaching, but one I believe we need to take more serious. Again, it comes down to faith. Hearing, believing, doing what God said, not man. Mat4:4 The whole bible is about the testimony of God though His prophets and apostles, yet when it comes to God’s own personal Testimony written not by man, but the God of the Universe Exo 31:18, so many choose to not believe as if they can re-write the ending of the Bible on what He clearly tells us is going to happen. Mat 7:21-23 Rev 11:18-19 Rev 22:14-15 1 John 2:4. He tells us ahead of time because He loves us so much and longs for us to hear His voice and not harden our hearts in rebellion, sin, unbelief which is disobedience Heb 3:7-19 but have faith in Him and hear His voice and abide and follow Him John 15:4,5,10 1 John 2:6 that will only lead one on the narrow path back to reconciliation Rev 22:14
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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If you are saying it is evil to "show up to a building"
No, but it's pretty funny you read it that way.

Evil is within every person at all times

Therefore using the "Saturday Sabbath" to accuse other believers who don't of "breaking the law" and therefore the potential condemnation and worse that comes with it along with the false self justification for those who do Saturday Sabbath is a nasty little mix for the proponents. Venomous
 
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SabbathBlessings

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No, but it's pretty funny you read it that way.

Evil is within every person at all times

Therefore using the "Saturday Sabbath" to accuse other believers who don't of "breaking the law" and therefore the potential condemnation and worse that comes with it along with the false self justification for those who do Saturday Sabbath is a nasty little mix for the proponents. Venomous
Thankfully you do not speak for everyone or God, just yourself.

God gives us another option, I would encourage people to take.

John 15:5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you[b] will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.

The Sabbath is a commandment of God part of God's own Testimony Exo 20:8-11 Exo 20:6 Exo 31:18. I never accused anyone of anything, just encouraging people to get back to what the God of the Bible said Jesus told us to live by Mat4:4
 
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Jan001

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I take it you didn‘t read the Scriptures I posted. It would have really cleared up your entire reply had you done so.

Can you please point out the words of the covenant , the Ten Commandments, where it was written on scrolls? God said He wrote His covenant, the Ten Commandments with His own finger on stone and it says nothing about it being the law of Moses, God claimed them as His. Why do so many insist giving God’s work, His covenant that God claimed as His- MY covenant MY commandments to a human-being. Moses didn’t and he was there Exo 32:16.
Your interpretations of the Scriptures you posted are different than mine.

The "stones" disappeared millennia ago. Since then the commands have been written on scrolls. For the past several centuries they have also been written on paper.

Exodus 31:13
Say to the children of Israel, ‘You shall observe my Sabbaths, for the Sabbath is a sign between me and you for all your generations, so that you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.

Show me the Scriptures in the NT that state that the Gentile Christians must keep the Sabbaths of the Israelites/Jews.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Your interpretations of the Scriptures you posted are different than mine.
We don’t need to re-interpret we just need to believe the plainly written Scriptures and not lean on our own understandings. Pro 3:5-6
The "stones" disappeared millennia ago. Since then the commands have been written on scrolls. For the past several centuries they have also been written on paper.
Not at all, they went from tables of stone to tablets of the heart Heb8:10 2 Cor3:3 and still under God's mercy seat in heaven where justice and mercy will come together soon James 2:11-12 Heb 8:1-5 Rev 11:18-19 Rev 15:5. I personally would not want to move a jot or tittle on something God covers with His mercy, but He does give us free will.
Exodus 31:13
Say to the children of Israel, ‘You shall observe my Sabbaths, for the Sabbath is a sign between me and you for all your generations, so that you may know that I am the Lord, who makes you holy.
Amen, because man can't sanctify a day or sanctify man Isa 66:17 only God can do that and the Sabbath is the sign of His sanctification Eze 20:12 and a sign between God and His people when keeping Eze 20:20. In the NT we are grafted into His covenant promises like thsee through faith Gal 3:26-29
Show me the Scriptures in the NT that state that the Gentile Christians must keep the Sabbaths of the Israelites/Jews.

The Sabbath is a commandment of God. No different than the commandment to only worship God and not murder our brethren. Where in the NC says we can break God’s commandments? According to NC Scripture all of God’s saints (saved) do so through love and faith. Rev 14:12 John 14:15 1John5:3 and this is the faith that reconciles us Rev22:14 Thats why we see Sabbath keeping from both Jews and Gentiles, the apostles, disciples and Jesus Himself in the NT who we are to follow in His footsteps 1John 2:6
 
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