Israel-Hamas Thread II

wing2000 · Saturday at 1:30 PM

Benaiah468 said:
I consider your statement to be a completely unbalanced and malicious insinuation to accuse an entire nation of terrorism.

Benjamin Netanyahu and the far right he plays to are terrorsits. Many Israelis, including former defense officials, want him gone.

Benaiah468 · Saturday at 2:04 PM

wing2000 said:
Benjamin Netanyahu and the far right he plays to are terrorsits. Many Israelis, including former defense officials, want him gone.

I find it strange that those who condemn terrorism against "Palestinians" remain silent when terrorism is directed against Jews.

Landon Caeli · Saturday at 8:12 PM

PK_VDMA said:
It’s truly inspiring to see boomer Israel-worshipers passionately backing an anti-Christian regime over actual Christians. Priorities, right? Apparently, there’s a divine exemption clause that lets Israel dehumanize anyone in their path, no limits, no questions asked. Must be nice to have a blank moral check endorsed by blind allegiance. US Congress is occupied territory of Israel. Before the 2003 Iraq War for Israel, the Christian population in Iraq was over a million, today around 150,000. All these desert wars for Israel sake brings nothing but destruction to Christians. Brought to you by USA taxpayer money.

Im not a "boomer".

PK_VDMA · Sunday at 11:39 AM

Benaiah468 said:
Israel is one of the few countries in the Middle East where Christians enjoy full civil rights, can practise their religion freely, hold high office and do not have to fear reprisals, at least not from the authorities. Reprisals and hostility do exist, but these often come from within their own ranks or from Muslim fellow citizens. Although the majority of Christian (68%) and Muslim (61%) Arabs consider themselves ‘Israelis’ and appreciate the freedom that life in Israel offers, Palestinian nationalism remains widespread.

Christian Arabs who live in areas with a Muslim majority must therefore be particularly careful not to become targets. If they keep their views to themselves, nothing will happen to them. But the more they identify as Israelis, the more uncomfortable it becomes for them. This is clearly illustrated by the example of Arab Christians who see themselves as part of the State of Israel in every respect and voluntarily perform military service. For their protection, the Israeli army has granted them special permission: normally, every soldier is required to travel to and from their respective army base in uniform. Christian Arab soldiers, however, are allowed to do so in civilian clothing in order to remain unrecognised among their own people.

Worldwide, the number of devout Christians who recognise G-d's intentions for Israel based on the Bible, who are saddened by the persecution of Jews throughout church history, and who stand up for Israel in prayer and practical support is growing. In addition, more and more Christians and non-Christians are seeing through the one-sided reporting of many media outlets, which all too often pillory Israel and conceal the glorification of violence, corruption, and human rights violations by the Palestinian leadership.

It is all the more surprising that church leaders in Jerusalem, (the city of the great King. Mt 5:35b), in particular, do not share this understanding, but are openly anti-Israeli. Clergy do not want to be accused of normalising relations with Israel or betrayal, nor do they want to put their members in the "Palestinian" territories in danger. Some therefore go on the offensive with anti-Israel statements.

But there is also another, deeper reason: it is the heresy, widespread since the early days of church history, that the Christian church has replaced Israel as G-d's chosen people. According to this replacement theology, which occurs in various forms and under different names (fulfilment theology, substitution theology), all the promises that G-d made explicitly to the Jewish people now apply to the church.

"Palestinian" church leaders have added a political component to the replacement theology prevalent among millions of Christians worldwide and preach a "Palestinian" liberation theology: According to this, Jesus, the Jewish carpenter's son from Nazareth and descendant of the greatest Jewish king, David, was not only a "Palestinian", but the first "Palestinian revolutionary leader." In this way, terrorist attacks against innocent Israeli civilians, for example, are considered legitimate acts against the oppressor. The pro-Palestinian churches are thus causing enormous damage.

A literal interpretation of the Bible, especially the five books of Moses, in which G-d repeatedly reaffirms his eternal covenant with Israel, is rejected. The Gospel is mixed with Palestinian nationalism and Jesus' Jewish identity is denied. The fact that Jesus taught his disciples peacefulness and repeatedly reminded them that His kingdom is not of this world (e.g. Mt 26:52; John 18:36) does not apply to the oppressed in their view.

Coupled with the absence of any critical examination of the Palestinian leadership's inhumane policies, this ideology suggests that Israel alone is to blame for the plight of Christians in the "Palestinian" territories. The fate of their fellow believers in other countries in the Middle East and the freedom of Christian Arab citizens of Israel are ignored.

In Feb 2019, the IDF promoted a Christian soldier to the rank of lieutenant-colonel, making him the first soldier of his faith to achieve that rank. His identity must remain confidential as he is being considered for a high-ranking/high-risk security position.

Lieutenant Colonel I., who hails from Nazareth, said

Oh look, the Israel “democracy card” and they care about Christians—lol. Never mind the land grabs from Christians using shady tax codes (Orthodox Church is largest private landowner in Israel) and other tactics, or the movement restrictions dressed up as “security.” Never mind the dehumanization of Christians at the border by the IDF. Just remember: facts don’t care about your feelings.

Imagine blindly supporting the anti-Christian modern Israel because you’ve been duped into a made up 19th century pre-trib dispensationalism eschatological heresy—crazy.

Israel as one giant example of breaking the first, second and third commandment. It’s a piece of blasphemy that is readily visible, with the increasing constriction and hostility towards Christians by first the various Zionist agencies and then by the modern state of Israel.

Benaiah468 · Sunday at 1:23 PM

PK_VDMA said:
Imagine blindly supporting the anti-Christian modern Israel

Arguments that could lead to this assumption such as lack of protection for churches and Christian communities, or the isolation of Christian Arabs, however, do not concern the State of Israel. It is not anti-Christian by definition, but a secular state with religious freedom for all faiths, including Christians.

The Israeli Constitution guarantees religious freedom and the ability to practice religions privately and publicly. Israel has a diverse population with Jewish, Muslim, and Christian minorities who generally enjoy a certain degree of freedom. The State of Israel is a secular state and not per se a religious state that would promote any specific religion.

Christians support Israel because they have recognized G-d's intentions for the Jewish people through the Bible, because they strive for a new, respectful relationship with the Jewish people, and because they recognize the historical and political legitimacy of the State of Israel.

The Bible states very clearly that the Jewish people received the land of Canaan from G-d Himself. He gave the land to Abraham and his descendants through Isaac as an eternal possession (Gen 12:1-3). G-d's intention was to form a people through whom He would reach the world.

In G-d's plan of salvation, the land of Canaan played an essential role as the national home of the Jewish people. And through this people, He gave His Word, the prophets, the covenants, and the Messiah to a lost world (Rom 9:4-5).

Furthermore, we read in the Bible that although G-d announced that Israel would be driven out of the land because of its disobedience, He also promised to bring it back, not once, but twice! (Isa 11:11).

G-d's plans for Israel are not yet complete (Jer 31:36): one day Israel will become the first among the nations. Then the word of the Lord will go forth from Jerusalem to the nations (Isa 2:3) and the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea (Hab 2:14). Israel's Messiah will reign in righteousness (Isa 32:1), he will rule the nations with a rod of iron (Rev 2:27), and the peoples will no longer learn to wage war (Isa 2:4).

For this reason, Christians support the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the rebuilding of the Jewish nation. Today, as throughout history, Israel's enemies seek to destroy the Jewish state and wipe it off the map. But we stand with Israel and will not be silent! (Isa 62:6).

In addition to the biblical reasons listed above, we also support Israel because we know the history of the modern state of Israel and know that the facts speak for themselves: Israel is a legitimate nation, established on legitimately acquired territory, and has the right to exist within secure borders.

Although Israel is a nation like any other, it is not perfect, and its policies are often mediocre, its establishment and existence are nevertheless legitimate and morally right. Surrounded by countries and organizations committed to Israel's destruction, we support Israel's right to exist within secure borders.

Benaiah468 · Sunday at 1:33 PM

PK_VDMA said:
Israel as one giant example of breaking the first, second and third commandment.

As the house of Joseph we are responsible for our behaviour (and therefore also for what you and I do personally). We cannot determine how our brother Judah should behave. Instead, we take care of ourselves. Because we are not in a position to dictate to Judah.

Our Father will open doors (and He has already done so in many places!) and touch the hearts of the Jews for Ephraim. But we need a humble heart. Otherwise we won't get very far. I even believe that if we are not willing to take such steps (humility and without demanding anything), we cannot (actively) participate in these processes!

Ephraim's task will be to remember the Torah. To return to His ways. This applies not only with regard to Judah (unification of Jews and Christians), but also with regard to the more than 10,000 different denominations among whom unity is not possible otherwise (unity of Christians is only possible through the Torah #234).

wing2000 · Sunday at 1:43 PM

Benaiah468 said:
I find it strange that those who condemn terrorism against "Palestinians" remain silent when terrorism is directed against Jews.

I find it strange that you make such assumptions.

rjs330 · Sunday at 10:52 PM

wing2000 said:
I find it strange that you make such assumptions.

I wonder how many posts you've posted condemning the actions of Hamas and their Palestinian supporters in comparison to the number youve posted condemning the actions of Israel.

wing2000 · Monday at 7:58 AM

rjs330 said:
I wonder how many posts you've posted condemning the actions of Hamas and their Palestinian supporters in comparison to the number youve posted condemning the actions of Israel.

I wonder why you think it's not plausable that I condem both actions?

rjs330 · Monday at 11:10 PM

wing2000 said:
I wonder why you think it's not plausable that I condem both actions?

Well you certainly do not do it equally. I suppose i could go back to the threads where the Palestinians attacked Israel and see if you were as critical of them as you are with Israel. My guess is you weren't. And you most certainly are not in this thread.

Philip_B · Tuesday at 2:42 AM

rjs330 said:
Well you certainly do not do it equally. I suppose i could go back to the threads where the Palestinians attacked Israel and see if you were as critical of them as you are with Israel. My guess is you weren't. And you most certainly are not in this thread.

And neither have you

Landon Caeli · Tuesday at 3:06 AM

Philip_B said:
And neither have you

I'm rubber and you're glue.

wing2000 · Tuesday at 11:45 AM

rjs330 said:
Well you certainly do not do it equally. I suppose i could go back to the threads where the Palestinians attacked Israel and see if you were as critical of them as you are with Israel. My guess is you weren't. And you most certainly are not in this thread.

I suppose you could waste all of our time doing that.

I supported Israel's right to defend itself and respond. It's how they have responded that I find obejctionable. From the 5000lb bombs dropped on apartement buidlings and hospitals to the current event of attacking an hosptal - not once, but twice -with the 2nd attack occuring 9 minutes after the intial attack. By then first responders and journalist were at the sight....and killled.

That is unacceptable targeting.

Video: Videos Contradict Israel’s Rationale for Deadly Hospital Attack

The strikes on Nasser Hospital in Gaza killed at least 20 people. A Times visual analysis calls into question what the Israeli military was initially targeting there, and why its troops attacked a second time, killing first responders and journalists.

www.nytimes.com

Benaiah468 · Tuesday at 1:19 PM

Poor Israel! What you have to endure! You are expected to care for civilians, ensure the safety of journalists, and accept a two-state solution.

Why are hospitals repeatedly targeted by the IDF? Not to kill journalists, whatever their presence there may be, but to destroy terrorist infrastructure and avert danger to the IDF.

Journalists now know that they are moving in a death zone created by terrorists, and yet they do it anyway. How can anyone believe that wearing a press vest will keep them safe as they walk through Gaza? Can we help? No!

A simple camera, covered with a towel, placed on the fourth floor of the Nassr Hospital in Khan Younis. Next to it, a man who was apparently recording every movement of Israeli soldiers on behalf of Hamas. For days, the hospital became a military observation post and thus a target itself.

Of course, it could also have been a targeting device for firing at tanks. A camera on the enemy's side means at least spying on the military situation, if not worse.

The camera was used to track IDF troop movements in real time. Such surveillance is no small matter; in urban warfare in the Gaza Strip, information means ambushes, tunnel attacks and kidnappings. It was a man from Netivot who first documented evidence of the Hamas camera. He had shared the activities online; evidence that later led to targeted observation by the army. For days, they tracked how the camera moved and how the footage was used to prepare attacks. Anyone who installs a camera in a hospital turns a place of healing into an eye of war.

Only if the tank gunner knew or believed that his target consisted of innocent people did he act unlawfully; otherwise, his actions were lawful. And how could he have known? He couldn't.

The mixing of civilian and military targets makes every strike a moral dilemma.

We now know that six Hamas terrorists were among those killed, one of whom was involved in the infiltration of Israeli territory on 7 Oct. What a surprise! Terrorists in hospital, as usual in Gaza.

In the end, one image remains: a camera covered by a blanket in a hospital. A symbol of the grey area of this war, where truth and deception are so closely intertwined that any attempt to distinguish between them can be fatal. Journalists are dying because terrorist groups systematically exploit civilian infrastructure.

Benaiah468 · Tuesday at 1:44 PM

Investigation explodes myth that Israel targets journalists

wing2000 · Tuesday at 1:50 PM

Benaiah468 said:
Why are hospitals repeatedly targeted by the IDF? Not to kill journalists, whatever their presence there may be, but to destroy terrorist infrastructure and avert danger to the IDF.

...in the latest attack, the IDF claimed there was a Hamas operated camera mounted on the external stairway. However, there is no evidence of such a camera....and even if there were, is launching rockets the appropriate solution?

[IDF also claims 6 Hamas militants were in the area.]

essentialsaltes · Tuesday at 2:24 PM

Benaiah468 said:
View attachment 369470

Investigation explodes myth that Israel targets journalists

“We know we’re dealing with Hamas propaganda when we’re talking about the Hamas list, and there’s little point addressing it."

Well, I'm convinced.

/s

Overall, We rate the Jewish News Syndicate as Right-Center biased based on its editorial position in support of the Israeli government. We also rate them Mixed for factual reporting due to poor sourcing techniques and the promotion of one-sided propaganda.

Benaiah468 · Tuesday at 2:25 PM

wing2000 said:
...in the latest attack, the IDF claimed there was a Hamas operated camera mounted on the external stairway. However, there is no evidence of such a camera....and even if there were, is launching rockets the appropriate solution?

[IDF also claims 6 Hamas militants were in the area.]

The Israeli military has released the results of the investigation into the attack on Nasser Hospital in Khan Yunis. According to the report, a Golani Brigades unit discovered a camera installed by Hamas that monitored the movements of Israeli soldiers. Based on the assessment that the facility was being used as an observation and control device for enemy activities, authorization for the attack was granted. The goal was to neutralize the threat without extending the operation to civilian areas. Naturally, challenges arise in coordinating and approving military operations in densely populated areas. Hamas systematically misuses civilian facilities for military purposes, making it difficult to distinguish between combatants and civilians. The fatigue and overload of the troops, which can lead to misjudgements, must also be taken into account. The investigation revealed that an anti-tank gun was used in the attack, although a more targeted weapon was initially planned to limit damage to the target area. Don't Hamas members have cameras and press vests? Six of the fatalities were Hamas militants.

RocksInMyHead · Tuesday at 2:32 PM

Benaiah468 said:
The Israeli military has released the results of the investigation into the attack on Nasser Hospital in Khan Yunis.

We have investigated ourselves and found that we did nothing wrong!

durangodawood · Tuesday at 2:38 PM

Benaiah468 said:
The Israeli military has released the results of the investigation into the attack on Nasser Hospital in Khan Yunis. According to the report, a Golani Brigades unit discovered a camera installed by Hamas that monitored the movements of Israeli soldiers. Based on the assessment that the facility was being used as an observation and control device for enemy activities, authorization for the attack was granted. The goal was to neutralize the threat without extending the operation to civilian areas. Naturally, challenges arise in coordinating and approving military operations in densely populated areas. Hamas systematically misuses civilian facilities for military purposes, making it difficult to distinguish between combatants and civilians. The fatigue and overload of the troops, which can lead to misjudgements, must also be taken into account. The investigation revealed that an anti-tank gun was used in the attack, although a more targeted weapon was initially planned to limit damage to the target area. Don't Hamas members have cameras and press vests? Six of the fatalities were Hamas militants.

Could be. The problem is the Israeli military has every incentive to lie. And I see no reason to believe they wouldnt. Similar with Hamas, or possibly more so. Its frustrating in trying to make sense of this war.

That said, the overall impression is building that the Israeli plan is to hound the Palestinians out of Gaza altogether. To be followed by the West Bank.

Israel-Hamas Thread II

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