Air Force to provide funeral honors to Ashli Babbitt

7thKeeper · Friday at 5:50 AM

Tuur said:
Just listen to all the love here in a "Christian" forum.

Agreed. Showing love to a traitor like her is pretty sickening.

JosephZ · Friday at 6:34 AM

7thKeeper said:
Agreed. Showing love to a traitor like her is pretty sickening.

Yes, it's disgusting.

Kathleen30 · Friday at 8:26 AM

Pommer said:
She seemed to be very intent on not following the Constitutionally way of getting/keeping Presidents in power, she wasn’t a traitor in the sense that she sold out her country to an enemy but that she got took by over zealous rhetoric spewers.

In the ante room of the House of Representatives during an unprecedented riot, yes, no wonder she got got.

She was brave, I will give her that, misled but heroic.

Pommer I think your post is a more honest evaluation when compared to what has been said by others here. With one poster even saying good riddance. But yes we agree Ashley was certainly never a traitor to her homeland

RocksInMyHead · Friday at 8:33 AM

Pommer said:
She was brave, I will give her that, misled but heroic.

I don't know that I'd go so far as to call her "heroic." Bravely doing something incredibly stupid and completely counter to the oaths that you took is not "heroic."

RocksInMyHead · Friday at 8:36 AM

Kathleen30 said:
But yes we agree Ashley was certainly never a traitor to her homeland

That really depends on how you define "traitor." As Pommer said, she didn't sell out the country to an enemy, but she did betray the oath that she took to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States. In many peoples' books, that makes her a traitor.

NxNW · Friday at 8:36 AM

Vambram said:
She is NOT a traitor and the cop was wrong to kill her.

She shouldn't have tried to assassinate elected officials.

NxNW · Friday at 8:38 AM

BPPLEE said:
I wonder how many of her detractors have watched the video of the police moving out of the way and granting her access to the window

There is no such video.

Tinker Grey · Friday at 8:39 AM

Vambram said:
She is NOT a traitor and the cop was wrong to kill her.

Are you ok with a home owner shooting an intruder? I am (in general).

But, a cop whose job it is protect those in the house? You don't?

iluvatar5150 · Friday at 8:57 AM

BPPLEE said:
I wonder how many of her detractors have watched the video of the police moving out of the way and granting her access to the window

None of us have, because that video doesn't exist. I've watched the video of her shooting dozens of times and what you described didn't happen. She was part of a crowd attempting to break through the windows of a set of barricaded doors. She observed others break those windows, one of which she climbed through. If she truly believed that she was allowed entry through the broken window of a barricaded door, then she should be denied military honors just by virtue of the fact that she was an idiot.

Here's the video again:

The officer's retreating does not equate to "granting her access". It boggles my mind how anybody can twist the narrative the way that you and so many others have.

Tropical Wilds · Friday at 9:00 AM

essentialsaltes said:
LINK

“I understand that the family’s initial request was denied by Air Force leadership in a letter dated February 9, 2021,” [USAF Undersecretary] Lohmeier wrote in the Aug. 15 letter shared by Judicial Watch. “However, after reviewing the circumstances of Ashli’s death, and considering the information that has come forward since then, I am persuaded that the previous determination was incorrect.”

[I wonder what that could be.]

In May, the government agreed to pay Babbitt’s family nearly $5 million as part of a settlement.

I mean, a sexually assaulting convicted felon who cavorted with pedophiles is the president. We are erecting statues to honor those who fought on behalf of an enemy government against the United States. Making the family of a traitor rich and giving her a proper military burial despite revolting against the very country she swore to defend is just the next logical step.

We’ve already heard that Hitler did some good things and heard Trump say he wish he had generals like him, so the groundwork on honoring him is subtly being laid. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised to hear he’s getting a full military burial in Arlington next to JFK.

JosephZ · Friday at 9:04 AM

Kathleen30 said:
About the only thing Ashley was guilty of was trespassing. Like many others which at the very most should have only been a fine not jail time. In Ashley’s case it was a bullet to the neck probably discharged from an officer under stress.

If someone is tresspassing and breaking a window to gain entry to someones residence, in many states that is enough of a threat for a homeowner to shoot them. Below is how the law is written in Texas:

SUBCHAPTER C. PROTECTION OF PERSONS

Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE. (a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:

(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.

(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:

(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

In the state of Texas, the person attempting to enter does not have to have a weapon, and the homeowner doesn't have to give an audible warning to the trespasser.

Ashli Babbitt was part of a mob whose intentions were unlawful and whose intent was to do harm. The officer did his job and stopped the threat. He did the exact same thing that many homeowners would do if found in a similar situation. I don't know if you personally agree with the law in Texas or states that have laws similar to that of Texas, but I find it ironic that many of the same people who think it's alright to shoot a person who is breaking through a window to enter their home have a problem with an officer of the law doing his job to protect people inside the capitol from a violent mob of people.

Tropical Wilds · Friday at 9:05 AM

Tuur said:
Just listen to all the love here in a "Christian" forum.

Pretend she was gay. Or trans. Or had an unwanted pregnancy. Experience has taught me that the same lack of love in those areas is more tolerable.

durangodawood · Friday at 9:10 AM

Kathleen30 said:
Pommer I think your post is a more honest evaluation when compared to what has been said by others here. With one poster even saying good riddance. But yes we agree Ashley was certainly never a traitor to her homeland

He literally did say he thought she was a traitor. Just not to a foreign country.

I agree. When the goal is to overturn a lawful election and get your preferred govt installed instead, that's a betrayal of the country.

BPPLEE · Friday at 9:25 AM

iluvatar5150 said:
None of us have, because that video doesn't exist. I've watched the video of her shooting dozens of times and what you described didn't happen. She was part of a crowd attempting to break through the windows of a set of barricaded doors. She observed others break those windows, one of which she climbed through. If she truly believed that she was allowed entry through the broken window of a barricaded door, then she should be denied military honors just by virtue of the fact that she was an idiot.

Here's the video again:

The officer's retreating does not equate to "granting her access". It boggles my mind how anybody can twist the narrative the way that you and so many others have.

You just posted the video that shows the officers moving out of the way. Then a tactical team is right there and renders aid to Babbitt.
None of them fired a shot.

BPPLEE · Friday at 9:38 AM

JosephZ said:
If someone is tresspassing and breaking a window to gain entry to someones residence, in many states that is enough of a threat for a homeowner to shoot them. Below is how the law is written in Texas:

SUBCHAPTER C. PROTECTION OF PERSONS

Sec. 9.31. SELF-DEFENSE. (a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful force. The actor's belief that the force was immediately necessary as described by this subsection is presumed to be reasonable if the actor:

(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:

(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

Sec. 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON.

(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if the actor would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31; and

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(1) knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the deadly force was used:

(A) unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor's occupied habitation, vehicle, or place of business or employment;

In the state of Texas, the person attempting to enter does not have to have a weapon, and the homeowner doesn't have to give an audible warning to the trespasser.

Ashli Babbitt was part of a mob whose intentions were unlawful and whose intent was to do harm. The officer did his job and stopped the threat. He did the exact same thing that many homeowners would do if found in a similar situation. I don't know if you personally agree with the law in Texas or states that have laws similar to that of Texas, but I find it ironic that many of the same people who think it's alright to shoot a person who is breaking through a window to enter their home have a problem with an officer of the law doing his job to protect people inside the capitol from a violent mob of people.

No one was breaking into a home.
They were at the Capitol

Tropical Wilds · Friday at 9:43 AM

BPPLEE said:
No one was breaking into a home.
They were at the Capitol

Oh well that’s better then.

JosephZ · Friday at 9:53 AM

BPPLEE said:
No one was breaking into a home.
They were at the Capitol

If I remember correctly, you have said in the past that you were once in law enforcement. If you were the officer on duty that day and assigned to the same position and found yourself under the same circumstances, how would you have reacted?

BPPLEE · Friday at 10:13 AM

JosephZ said:
If I remember correctly, you have said in the past that you were once in law enforcement. If you were the officer on duty that day and assigned to the same position and found yourself under the same circumstances, how would you have reacted?

I wouldn't shoot a small, unarmed woman that I could overpower,

JosephZ · Friday at 10:26 AM

BPPLEE said:
I wouldn't shoot a small, unarmed woman that I could overpower,

Ashli Babbitt wouldn't have been the only one coming through those doors if that was the decision you would have made that day. What do you think the rest of the mob would have been doing while you were busy dealing with her? The answer can be seen by taking a look at other videos from that day. You would have likely been seriously injured or perhaps worse. You also wouldn't have known what was in her backpack in advance. It could have been an IED. If you would have tried to overpower Ashli Babbitt and failed, the lives of every person behind those doors you were assigned to protect would have been put in danger. The officer who was on duty that day understood the threat he was facing and did the right thing.

BPPLEE · Friday at 10:30 AM

JosephZ said:
If I remember correctly, you have said in the past that you were once in law enforcement. If you were the officer on duty that day and assigned to the same position and found yourself under the same circumstances, how would you have reacted?

The guidelines for the use of deadly force are Ability, Opportunity, Jeopardy and Preclusion.
Did Babbitt have the ability to kill or cripple the officer or someone else?
She had a knife in her pocket but the officer didn’t know this until after she was killed. So as far as the officer knew, no
Did Babbitt have the opportunity to kill or cripple the officer or someone else? No
Did the officer believe that he was in jeopardy? Yes, I believe he did (Would a reasonable person agree? Probably)
Preclusion, was there anything else he could have done? Yes, he could have stopped Babbitt from coming through the window, there were several things he could have done.
The conditions for deadly force were not met

Air Force to provide funeral honors to Ashli Babbitt

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