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Book Of Enoch And The Flat-earth

Tinker Grey

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As I stated in my last post I am not going to discuss Bible apologetics here.
It's not Bible apologetics. It's a discussion of literary criticism. All sorts of things are taught by stories ... inside the Bible or not.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I take much of Genesis as mythology that has spiritual substance with in the stories. My question is this: Are myths considered "fiction"?

They might be, but the first historiographical question to ask would be: What did Bronze Age and Iron Age writers think they were writing when they wrote? Did they even have 'Myth' in mind as a category or writing genre? If not, what did they think they were writing, despite how we, today, would categorize their writing (such as we find in the first 11 chapters of Genesis, or, in the case of this thread, 1 Enoch, or in the case of much of the rest of the A.N.E. literature?)
 
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Hentenza

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I also don't see anything in the text that guarantees its authenticity either. Wouldn't it be a crying shame if 2 Timothy (or all of the Pastorals) turned out to be a forgery?
And this comment is exactly why I didn’t choose to address the requests above. What begins as hermeneutics can devolve into apologetics, particularly in non Christian areas of this site. I have sufficient objective evidence to prove that the pastoral epistles are not a forgery. But that discussion would be outside of hermeneutics.
 
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AV1611VET

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And this comment is exactly why I didn’t choose to address the requests above. What begins as hermeneutics can devolve into apologetics, particularly in non Christian areas of this site. I have sufficient objective evidence to prove that the pastoral epistles are not a forgery. But that discussion would be outside of hermeneutics.

Are you a Bible teacher?

And do you remember a poster here named Nathan Poe?
 
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Hentenza

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Are you a Bible teacher?

And do you remember a poster here named Nathan Poe?
I do teach Bible study and remember the username Nathan Poe but not what he posted.
 
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Jipsah

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"Do you believe everything your church tells you to believe, or do you bother thinking for yourself?"

*wonders why he is asking christians that when they”” think that the book of enoch could be some old guys toliet paper that he decied to write on..ie worthless*
“Worthless” is precisely the right word. There’s probably *some* truth in it if only by accident, but for the most part it’s unadulterated rubbish.
 
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Jipsah

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"It is something you must take on faith. "

Yup, just like science :)
Of course! I mean, as an Electrical Engineer, I have to take Omh’s Law strictly on faith without any means if empirically verifying it, right?
 
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Jipsah

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This isn't about translations. If you're too stupid to recognize metaphor or simile, no translation is going to make you smart enough. And you can wave your hands all day about who ministerpreted these sections to be literal, but that's about as meaningful as placing the blame on a biology book if anyone can't understand biology after reading it.
Metaphor and simile mean “things that run contrary to my doctrine’.
 
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BCP1928

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And this comment is exactly why I didn’t choose to address the requests above. What begins as hermeneutics can devolve into apologetics, particularly in non Christian areas of this site. I have sufficient objective evidence to prove that the pastoral epistles are not a forgery. But that discussion would be outside of hermeneutics.
I don't see as it makes much difference, anyway. Scripture, as you believe, is divinely inspired and pseudepigraphic texts were common at the time so the actual authorship is merely of scholarly interest.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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And this comment is exactly why I didn’t choose to address the requests above. What begins as hermeneutics can devolve into apologetics, particularly in non Christian areas of this site. I have sufficient objective evidence to prove that the pastoral epistles are not a forgery. But that discussion would be outside of hermeneutics.

.............in my school of study, Literary Criticism and Historical Criticism are a part of the fuller field of Hermeneutics, and this is applicable to the Bible just as much as with any other literature. And here's the upshot in all of this: as a philosopher, I get to tap dance around on an interdisciplinary cloud of privilege, which means that while I can critically assess the Bible, I can also apply the critical sauce on any other mode of thought (i.e. praxis / method) that is also brought to bear upon the Bible.

One doesn't have to settle for mere "biblical defense" when one can also go on critical offense, in all directions. I'm intrepid like that and it's also one reason why I earned a degree in Philosophy rather than in Theology Proper. I don't have to be subject to the arbitrary rules and epistemological demands of any one Christian denomination ... or that of any one Critical School. ;)
 
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Hentenza

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.............in my school of study, Literary Criticism and Historical Criticism are a part of the fuller field of Hermeneutics, and this is applicable to the Bible just as much as with any other literature.
My friend, the body of knowledge for both Literary and Historical criticism of the Bible are both huge and widely diverse. You can find works that justify opinions from one side of the spectrum to the other. The usual problem being the variety of opinions on who wrote them and when were they written. A consensus proves elusive.
And here's the upshot in all of this: as a philosopher, I get to tap dance around on an interdisciplinary cloud of privilege, which means that while I can critically assess the Bible, I can also apply the critical sauce on any other mode of thought (i.e. praxis / method) that is also brought to bear upon the Bible.

One doesn't have to settle for mere "biblical defense" when one can also go on critical offense, in all directions. I'm intrepid like that and it's also one reason why I earned a degree in Philosophy rather than in Theology Proper. I don't have to be subject to the arbitrary rules and epistemological demands of any one Christian denomination ... or that of any one Critical School. ;)
Have fun with that.
 
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AV1611VET

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Metaphor and simile mean “things that run contrary to my doctrine’.

I challenge you to go 24 hours without using metaphor, simile, or any other non-literal speech.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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My friend, the body of knowledge for both Literary and Historical criticism of the Bible are both huge and widely diverse. You can find works that justify opinions from one side of the spectrum to the other. The usual problem being the variety of opinions on who wrote them and when were they written. A consensus proves elusive.
Yes, all that is so very true. But I remain undaunted.
Have fun with that.

:cool:
 
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Jipsah

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Ophiolite

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The point is that anything that you read you start with reading each word literally and then interpret whether the sentence, paragraph, chapter, or book had a literal or non literal meaning.
Perhaps that is the way you do it. I know of at least one person on the planet who does not do it that way. Perhaps there are others. Your absolute assumption it flawed.
I take much of Genesis as mythology that has spiritual substance with in the stories. My question is this: Are myths considered "fiction"?
I come to my off repeated observation that all (probably) classification systems are artificial, created for convenience. They are often a simplification of complex characteristics inhabiting a convolute spectrum. Time spent arguing where one example fits within the system might be better spent improving the system, or ignoring it altogether.
 
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