A whites-only community in Arkansas looking to start a franchise in Missouri

public hermit · Wednesday at 6:57 PM

Chesterton said:
Therefore, white culture would be mainstream American culture.

That's the critique, right? Whites have had a hegemony over American culture. I think that's right, but I can't imagine what "white" culture would be. The only commonality in the hegemony of American culture has been it's whiteness, but there are so many subcultures that it becomes obvious it's a white thing. We have bikers staring at the cowboys, who are laughing at the hippies, but they're all white.

Bradskii · Wednesday at 7:01 PM

d taylor said:
-

Nation of Islam chapter: Our religion is about love and unity, whites can't attend services

The NOI is classed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center as per your very own link. Because 'it vilifies others based on prejudices such as race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation or gender identity.' So they are a racist organisation.

Your argument, if one could call it that, is 'Hey, these guys over here are racist so what can't these other guys do the same?'

Bradskii · Wednesday at 7:23 PM

MrMoe said:
I see it all the time here. That ‘I’m better than you. I actually care’ type attitude. That “holier than thou” attitude that is so prevalent on the left.

You are exemplifying the very position I'm accusing some of making. If someone asks why we aren't doing more, or in some cases why are now doing a lot less, then rather than actually addressing the question you throw your arms up in the air and toss around accusations that it's some holier-than-thou attitude.

To the case in point, if someone points out that what these people are doing in Arkansas is the very definition of racism, then - incredibly, what they are doing is excused and those condemning it are accused of suggesting that they are better than you in some way for calling out racism. How on earth does that even approach what could be described as a sensible argument. The actual reason for these facile attempts at trying to excuse the racist attitudes is because the thought process runs like this: 'The person making the argument is obviously left wing, therefore his or her argument must be wrong'.

This bulldust about 'suicidal empathy' being compassion with no thought of the consequences of righting a specific wrong is just that. Bulldust. But you are giving us a great example of an argument against what is being said which itself has absolutely no connection with any logical thought process. It's a simple knee jerk reaction. 'Who said that? Let me check to see who it was so I can tell whether I can agree with it'.

MrMoe said:
The problem with that statement is that you can always say that no matter how much help society gives.

No. The point is that if there is a problem then you need, rather obviously, to put some thought into how to solve it. If we are not doing what we can, and there is a limit to what we can do regarding any given problem then the very first decision to be made by all parties is that there is a problem to be solved in the first instance. What should not happen is to play politics and throw around dumb accusations of 'suicidal empathy'. Doing that is ignoring the initial problem.

The rest of your post had nothing worthwhile to which I could respond.

Chesterton · Wednesday at 7:49 PM

public hermit said:
That's the critique, right?

Just something I gleaned from the Wiki article.

public hermit said:
Whites have had a hegemony over American culture.

Is that a bad thing? Do you have a problem with Hispanics having hegemony over Mexican culture? I don't.

public hermit said:
I think that's right, but I can't imagine what "white" culture would be.

I've already answered that - basketball. And the list is nearly endless from there.

public hermit said:
The only commonality in the hegemony of American culture has been it's whiteness, but there are so many subcultures that it becomes obvious it's a white thing.

Blacks don't have subcultures? Are they a monolith?

public hermit said:
We have bikers staring at the cowboys, who are laughing at the hippies, but they're all white.

There are black cowboys and hippies. Biker gangs are different because they are all whites-only. Maybe I should start a thread to signal my virtue against the Hell's Angels.

public hermit · Wednesday at 7:55 PM

Chesterton said:
Just something I gleaned from the Wiki article.

Is that a bad thing? Do you have a problem with Hispanics having hegemony over Mexican culture? I don't.

I've already answered that - basketball. And the list is nearly endless from there.

Blacks don't have subcultures? Are they a monolith?

There are black cowboys and hippies. Biker gangs are different because they are all whites-only. Maybe I should start a thread to signal my virtue against the Hell's Angels.

You are a fan of a white hegemony. See, I don't think anyone really has a choice in the matter. The hegemony has shifted, and it is shifting. So what? As a white person, that doesn't hurt my feelings. You seem to think it matters, and whiteness needs to be defended. Why?

Chesterton · Wednesday at 8:16 PM

public hermit said:
You are a fan of a white hegemony. See, I don't think anyone really has a choice in the matter. The hegemony has shifted, and it is shifting. So what? As a white person, that doesn't hurt my feelings. You seem to think it matters, and whiteness needs to be defended. Why?

No, you misunderstood. I didn't say I liked or disliked anything. I simply stated what should be an obvious fact. It's a matter of the numbers in the population. A predominantly Hispanic country is going to have a Hispanic culture. A predominantly Arab country is going to have an Arab culture. A predominantly European country is going to have a European culture. It's entirely normal and natural.

public hermit · Wednesday at 8:27 PM

Chesterton said:
No, you misunderstood. I didn't say I liked or disliked anything. I simply stated what should be an obvious fact. It's a matter of the numbers in the population. A predominantly Hispanic country is going to have a Hispanic culture. A predominantly Arab country is going to have an Arab culture. A predominantly European country is going to have a European culture. It's entirely normal and natural.

Sure, but that is not the US. We have many cultures that make up this great land, all of which are beautiful and contribute a thread to the fabric. We are just now starting to come into our own! I love it!

I grew up in Texas where Mexican culture is simply part of the fabric. In general, these are hard-working, God-loving, family-oriented people. I moved to Kentucky in the early 2000s, and people were very upset they were "infiltrating" their space (all except the land owners who hired them, of course). I was shocked. I didn't understand. I felt for sure in time they would understand what a benefit this particular culture is to our great society. But, alas, I guess not everyone sees it.

God creates all these beautiful people, each one a particular snapshot of the infinite beauty and goodness of the God, and we have the unique opportunity to embrace that fact? I am all for it.

d taylor · Wednesday at 8:31 PM

Bradskii said:
The NOI is classed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center as per your very own link. Because 'it vilifies others based on prejudices such as race, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation or gender identity.' So they are a racist organisation.

Your argument, if one could call it that, is 'Hey, these guys over here are racist so what can't these other guys do the same?'

-

No it just points out that liberals conveniently forget about organizations like them, see post #79

Bradskii · Wednesday at 10:18 PM

d taylor said:
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No it just points out that liberals conveniently forget about organizations like them, see post #79

Why do you say that people forget about them? Do you mean some people excuse their behaviour? Do you mean that because they are not in the news now then they are forgotten? Do you mean that there's some hypocriticism here? Is the existence of one racist group a green light for others?

Explain yourself. What you've said makes no sense. Make an argument for heaven's sake.

essentialsaltes · Wednesday at 11:30 PM

d taylor said:
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No it just points out that liberals conveniently forget about organizations like them, see post #79

Make a thread about it. This thread is about the group in the OP.

MrMoe · Thursday at 12:29 AM

RocksInMyHead said:
That's sympathy, not empathy.

Empathy:
"the psychological identification with or vicarious experiencing of the emotions, thoughts, or attitudes of another."

Sympathy:
"the act or state of feeling sorrow or compassion for another."
or
"agreement in feelings or emotions between people or on the part of one person toward another, especially as based on similar tastes, shared understanding, etc."

Rephrased, to empathize with someone is to understand their feelings. To sympathize is to agree with them.

Once again, my signature's relevance rears its head.

Sympathy can come from empathy. So you cannot definitively say it’s one and not the other.

Bradskii · Thursday at 1:16 AM

MrMoe said:
Sympathy can come from empathy. So you cannot definitively say it’s one and not the other.

Callousness can come from empathy. So you cannot definitively say it’s one and not the other.

What a risible comment.

MrMoe · Thursday at 1:16 AM

Bradskii said:
You are exemplifying the very position I'm accusing some of making. If someone asks why we aren't doing more, or in some cases why are now doing a lot less, then rather than actually addressing the question you throw your arms up in the air and toss around accusations that it's some holier-than-thou attitude.

Because sometimes it is. Jesus identified it in Matthew 26:8-11 and rebuked the disciples.

Jesus did the same thing you’re accusing me of doing.

Funny that Christians are constantly accused of not behaving more like Christ.
It seem you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

By the way what is even the question that needs to be addressed regarding this thread’s topic?

Bradskii said:
To the case in point, if someone points out that what these people are doing in Arkansas is the very definition of racism, then - incredibly, what they are doing is excused

Is what they are doing illegal?

Bradskii said:
and those condemning it are accused of suggesting that they are better than you in some way for calling out racism.

I haven’t seen a single person accuse others of being holier than thou just for calling out racism. Please provide a direct quote as proof of your claim.

Bradskii said:
How on earth does that even approach what could be described as a sensible argument. The actual reason for these facile attempts at trying to excuse the racist attitudes is because the thought process runs like this: 'The person making the argument is obviously left wing, therefore his or her argument must be wrong'.

Now you’re just mind reading. I don’t think a person’s argument is wrong simply because they are left wing, and I have never seen anyone else here make that claim.
You are making an assumption that, that is what they believe.

Bradskii said:
This bulldust about 'suicidal empathy' being compassion with no thought of the consequences of righting a specific wrong is just that. Bulldust.

Why is it bulldust?

Bradskii said:
But you are giving us a great example of an argument against what is being said which itself has absolutely no connection with any logical thought process. It's a simple knee jerk reaction. 'Who said that? Let me check to see who it was so I can tell whether I can agree with it'.

More assumptions of people’s thought processes.

Bradskii said:
No. The point is that if there is a problem then you need, rather obviously, to put some thought into how to solve it.

Exactly. Unfortunately for some people putting some thought into how to solve a problem isn’t obvious. Hence we get suicidal empathy.

Bradskii said:
If we are not doing what we can, and there is a limit to what we can do regarding any given problem then the very first decision to be made by all parties is that there is a problem to be solved in the first instance. What should not happen is to play politics and throw around dumb accusations of 'suicidal empathy'. Doing that is ignoring the initial problem.

Suicidal empathy isn’t inherently political, and it can be called out without ignoring the initial problem.

Larniavc · Thursday at 1:16 AM

ralliann said:
The one below.

What on Earth do you mean by ‘spoke American’? Do you mean English?

Bradskii · Thursday at 1:30 AM

MrMoe said:
Because sometimes it is.

Then address it when it happens. Don't make sweeping statements that you assume cover all eventualities.

MrMoe said:
By the way what is even the question that needs to be addressed regarding this thread’s topic?
Is what they are doing illegal?

The question is not whether it's illegal. It is whether it is morally correct. And way too many people like yourself are trying to excuse it.

MrMoe said:
I haven’t seen a single person accuse others of being holier than thou just for calling out racism. Please provide a direct quote as proof of your claim.

Good grief man. This is your claim! This is what you have said. Are you not following your own argument (and I use the term loosely)?

MrMoe said:
I see it all the time here. That ‘I’m better than you. I actually care’ type attitude. That “holier than thou” attitude that is so prevalent on the left.

There you go. You 'see it all the time'. And you want me to give you an example after you have just posted the very think you're asking for?

MrMoe said:
Now you’re just mind reading. I don’t think a person’s argument is wrong simply because they are left wing...

But you're excusing overt racism. Now that is EITHER because you see nothing wrong with it OR you are simply arguing because it was noted (and disparaged) by those you class as left wing.

Maybe you can tell us which it is.

MrMoe · Thursday at 1:33 AM

Bradskii said:
Callousness can come from empathy. So you cannot definitively say it’s one and not the other.

What a risible comment.

You find expert opinions risible?

Brene Brown: In her work on empathy and connection, Brene Brown explains that empathy is a deeper, more authentic connection where we feel with someone, while sympathy is more of a feeling of sorrow from a distance. According to her, empathy often leads to sympathy because it connects us emotionally to others. However, she cautions that sympathy can sometimes create a power imbalance or distance, as it is rooted more in pity.
- Brene Brown's TED talk on empathy: Brene Brown on Empathy
Psychology Today: Articles on empathy and sympathy often explain how empathy (the ability to understand another's emotions) can naturally lead to feelings of sympathy. When we empathize with someone, especially when their suffering is involved, it can provoke sympathy as a way of emotionally responding to that understanding.
- Psychology Today: Empathy vs. Sympathy
The Greater Good Science Center (UC Berkeley): According to research from UC Berkeley, empathy can indeed lead to sympathy. Empathy helps individuals feel emotionally aligned with others, which then leads to compassionate actions or feelings of sympathy. However, empathy requires deeper engagement with someone’s emotional state, while sympathy can sometimes feel more detached.
- Greater Good Science Center: Empathy and Compassion

Bradskii · Thursday at 1:45 AM

MrMoe said:
You find expert opinions risible?

...empathy is a deeper, more authentic connection where we feel with someone, while sympathy is more of a feeling of sorrow from a distance. ...empathy (the ability to understand another's emotions) can naturally lead to feelings of sympathy

They are there explaining to you how empathy is the ability to understand another's emotional state. Of course it can lead to sympathy. But they are not one and the same thing. As your experts have just pointed out. So this statement...

MrMoe said:
So you cannot definitively say it’s one and not the other.

...is completely wrong. I can say it's one and the other. You can have empathy and callousness. They are not the same. You can have empathy and indifference. They are not the same. You can have empathy and contempt. They are not the same. You can have empathy and any reaction to the person with whom you are empathising. Including sympathy. But they are not the same.

MrMoe · Thursday at 2:05 AM

Bradskii said:
Then address it when it happens. Don't make sweeping statements that you assume cover all eventualities.

I wasn’t. I’m covering specific eventualities.

Bradskii said:
The question is not whether it's illegal. It is whether it is morally correct.

By “it” do you mean them being racist or moving to a secluded area and starting your own private member association? Racism is definitely morally wrong. What solution do you propose to solve their racism?

Bradskii said:
And way too many people like yourself are trying to excuse it.

I assume you mean racism. When did I excuse racism? I have condemned racism many times.

Bradskii said:
Good grief man. This is your claim! This is what you have said. Are you not following your own argument (and I use the term loosely)?

Nope, never made that some one is holier than thou just for calling out racism. It’s you who is not following my argument. See post #292

Bradskii said:
There you go. You 'see it all the time'. And you want me to give you an example after you have just posted the very think you're asking for?

Where did I mention racism in that quote? You’re making assumptions again.

Bradskii said:
But you're excusing overt racism. Now that is EITHER because you see nothing wrong with it

Nope. I condemn racism. See above.

Bradskii said:
OR you are simply arguing because it was noted (and disparaged) by those you class as left wing.

Maybe you can tell us which it is.

It’s neither.

My original isn’t even about the the racist people, it’s about a completely different topic the OP linked to. See post #292.

This shows you haven’t been paying attention.

MrMoe · Thursday at 2:22 AM

Bradskii said:
They are there explaining to you how empathy is the ability to understand another's emotional state. Of course it can lead to sympathy. But they are not one and the same thing. As your experts have just pointed out.

Never said they were the same. Strawmanning my argument I see. I clearly said one can lead to the other.

Bradskii said:
So this statement...

...is completely wrong. I can say it's one and the other.

How do you know which was which in the case of the woman who was killed by the man who killed her mother? How do you know if it was empathy or sympathy, or if empathy lead to sympathy in her case?

Bradskii said:
You can have empathy and callousness. They are not the same. You can have empathy and indifference. They are not the same. You can have empathy and contempt. They are not the same. You can have empathy and any reaction to the person with whom you are empathising. Including sympathy. But they are not the same.

You’re arguing off a straw man.

Bradskii · Thursday at 2:25 AM

MrMoe said:
I wasn’t. I’m covering specific eventualities.

You brought up the concept to cover this topic. You claimed that people are being 'holier than thou' about this matter (why else bring it up) and are too compassionate, looking for solutions without critical thought being involved. Again, why else bring it up in this thread if it's not relevant to the op?

MrMoe said:
By “it” do you mean them being racist or moving to a secluded area and starting your own private member association? Racism is definitely morally wrong. What solution do you propose to solve their racism?

Call it out. Accept that people are genuine in calling it out without accusing them of being 'holier than thou'. Accept that people are genuine without insinuating that there's no critical thinking going on.

MrMoe said:
Nope, never made that some one is holier than thou just for calling out racism. It’s you who is not following my argument. See post #292

Where you said 'We see a lot of suicidal empathy/pathological altruism on the left'? In a thread where there were people 'on the left' decrying the very concept of a white only community as being racist? Are you now saying that your comments had nothing at all to do with the op but were simply a general rant against the left? In which case you have no problems with people pointing out how racist this Arkansas 'community' actually is.

A whites-only community in Arkansas looking to start a franchise in Missouri

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Nation of Islam chapter: Our religion is about love and unity, whites can't attend services