6,000 Years?

Platte said:

That was the ancient intercultural background during that time. Strange world back then. I'm thankful that Jesus was sent to be "the light of the world" so that I too know the God of Abraham!

The Jewish people as God's chosen people....weren't involved in that intercultural background....they were the only ones who knew and worshiped the 1 true God.

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2PhiloVoid said:

I generally agree with the basic gist of what you're saying here, Platte, but I'm going to take an interpretive position on how well various Israelites held the faith that sits about half-way between yours and that of @trophy33.

We should probably say, instead, that those who were True Israelites held their faith in the Lord; some among the Israelites showed a varying degree of compromise, with some being destroyed for it or having some of the promises withheld from them that God would have otherwise fulfilled. I'm not going to contend over this point because I think you, me and @trophy33 are all familiar with the Old Testament and we can each readily pick out examples to support our personal emphasis.

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Platte said:

God is way more badass than Newton

This video is a good represenation of how I view science in relationship to God/the Bible
@trophy33 and @2PhiloVoid

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trophy33 said:

The video says nothing about God, Bible or about the relationship between science and God/Bible.

It is about how Neptune was discovered because of the deviations in the movement of Uranus.

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Platte said:

I would add: Clever people look for Neptune

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Job 33:6 said:

Yup, and all that happens after chapter 1. That's chapter 2.


Wow, Jesus was the second man to be born? Oh wait, that's not about biology.


It doesn't say that God created "parents". It says "them". That's all.

Genesis 1:27 NIV
[27] So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

In Hebrew, Genesis 1:27 does use a singular masculine pronoun often translated as "him" (אוֹתוֹ, oto), but this does not refer to a single individual person named Adam. Instead, it refers back to the word אָדָם (adam), which means "man" or "humanity" in a general sense. The singular pronoun "him" is used because adam is grammatically masculine singular. However, the verse immediately clarifies that both male and female were created by using the plural pronoun "them" (אוֹתָם, otam), indicating that the image of God is shared by all humans, male and female, not just 1 single man. So, the "him" in the verse is not about one individual alone but refers to humanity as a whole.

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Platte said:

You also have to include how closed societies were at that time (compared to ours) and I would guess that the Jews were much more closed than most because of their religious views and God telling them not to associate with other nations.

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davetaff said:

No what I'm asking how do you account for God flooding the world in the last 6000 years.

Love and Peace
Dave

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Platte said:

God is way more badass than Newton

This video is a good represenation of how I view science in relationship to God/the Bible
@trophy33 and @2PhiloVoid

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davetaff said:

Hi Platte
IM STILL WAITING FOR AN ANSWER THANK YOU

LOVE AND PEACE
DAVE

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FaithT said:

So what we’ve learned thus far is all the evidence shows that the universe and earth are billions of years old, there is no proof or logical evidence that it’s 6,000 years old, some of the YEC here acknowledge that that’s where the evidence points but because THEIR INTERPRETATION of the Bible says otherwise, people go with a YEC point of view anyway? Correct?

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2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was. 10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. 12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

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2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

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Amo2 said:

No one has, does, or ever will this side of heaven, observe the historical scientific theories of YEC's, or deep timers. Deep timers therefore have learned nothing regarding established and or observed and verified facts.

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trophy33 said:

Do you believe that a crime scene can be reconstructed from evidence? It is the same thing.

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Amo2 said:

No, it is not the same thing at all. It is concerning things that have recently happened, with evidences that can be verifiably connected to the crimes involved. While a great many "evidences" presented by both sides of the deep time issues or not, cannot be verified as being around at the times suggested by either side. To date, our dating methods have been proved many times over to be highly inaccurate, not to mentioned based upon certain presumptions themselves. This is not to mention that many innocent people do end up being found guilty, due to humanities limitations concerning that which we have not actually observed. This is nothing much to most deep timers in any case though, as they have proved themselves wrong so many times over throughout the past, while still maintaining and or professing their current theories to be fact, regardless.

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Amo2 said:

No one has, does, or ever will this side of heaven, observe the historical scientific theories of YEC's, or deep timers. Deep timers therefore have learned nothing regarding established and or observed and verified facts. They have learned about theories based upon deep time world views, that is all. In the very same manner in which YEC's learn theories about the unobservable past, based upon faith in their world views. I believe YEC's though, have more observable facts with which to base their young earth views upon, than deep timers have regarding theirs. As there deep time views themselves, require much faith in many more unobservable events of the past, which can only be conjectured upon.

While YEC's have increasingly been rapidly developing proof that a very great deal of what we see around us, is observed to have been easily established through rapid cataclysmic events. All of which are directly in line with the base testimony of that in which we place our faith, the holy scriptures. So also are the continuous observations of scientists from both disciplines, that complexity seems to have existed further and further back in time. Which is exactly what YEC's would expect, but is erosive of deep time scenarios of slowly developing complexity by way of evolutions. We ever increasingly see this concerning the universe as well.

Concerning theories, it is of course possible to be ever learning about them, but never obtain to a knowledge of truth. Because some of their base line assumptions are wrong. The scriptures themselves address this phenomenon, regarding those who reject some of it's basic tenets.

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Amo2 said:

The rest of the book of Genesis, and the genealogy supplied does suggest we all descended from one man, by recording propagation and descent from this one man alone. As the rest of holy scripture in it's entirety does as well. Ignoring what does exist right in front of your face, regarding exactly the testimony of the very book we are discussing, is not conducive to properly understanding it's intent. While at the same time, proposing that which it states and or claims nowhere at all.

Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

Gen 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

Gen 5:6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:

Gen 5:7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:

Gen 5:9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:

Gen 5:10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:

Gen 5:12 And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel:

Gen 5:13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:

Gen 5:15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:

Gen 5:16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:

Gen 5:18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:

Gen 5:19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

Gen 5:21 And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:

Gen 5:22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:

Gen 5:25 And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:

Gen 5:26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:

Gen 5:28 And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:

Gen 5:30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:

Gen 5:32 And Noah was five hundred years old: and Noah begat Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Gen 6:10 And Noah begat three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

Gen 10:8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.

Gen 10:13 And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim,

Gen 10:15 And Canaan begat Sidon his firstborn, and Heth,

Gen 10:24 And Arphaxad begat Salah; and Salah begat Eber.

Gen 10:26 And Joktan begat Almodad, and Sheleph, and Hazarmaveth, and Jerah,

Gen 11:10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:

Gen 11:11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.

Gen 11:12 And Arphaxad lived five and thirty years, and begat Salah:

Gen 11:13 And Arphaxad lived after he begat Salah four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.

Gen 11:14 And Salah lived thirty years, and begat Eber:

Gen 11:15 And Salah lived after he begat Eber four hundred and three years, and begat sons and daughters.

Gen 11:16 And Eber lived four and thirty years, and begat Peleg:

Gen 11:17 And Eber lived after he begat Peleg four hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters.

Gen 11:18 And Peleg lived thirty years, and begat Reu:

Gen 11:19 And Peleg lived after he begat Reu two hundred and nine years, and begat sons and daughters.

Gen 11:20 And Reu lived two and thirty years, and begat Serug:

Gen 11:21 And Reu lived after he begat Serug two hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters.

Gen 11:22 And Serug lived thirty years, and begat Nahor:

Gen 11:23 And Serug lived after he begat Nahor two hundred years, and begat sons and daughters.

Gen 11:24 And Nahor lived nine and twenty years, and begat Terah:

Gen 11:25 And Nahor lived after he begat Terah an hundred and nineteen years, and begat sons and daughters.

Gen 11:26 And Terah lived seventy years, and begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran.

Gen 11:27 Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot.

Gen 22:23 And Bethuel begat Rebekah: these eight Milcah did bear to Nahor, Abraham's brother.

Gen 25:3 And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.

Gen 25:19 And these are the generations of Isaac, Abraham's son: Abraham begat Isaac:

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FaithT said:

So, what we’ve learned thus far is that

1. all the evidence shows that the universe and Earth are billions of years old.
   
2. there is no proof or logical evidence that it’s 6,000 years old.
   
3. some of the young-earth creationists here acknowledge that [this is what] the evidence [indicates]
   
4. but, because their interpretation of the Bible says otherwise, people go with a YEC point of view anyway?

Correct?

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Job 33:6 said:

Except for the passages where it doesn't, such as Cain fearing for his life and finding a wife, and building a city outside of Eden, all before Adam and Eve had more sons and daughters.

Family geneologies are family geneologies. There is no reason to expect them to include people outside of the family.

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DialecticSkeptic said:

Other young-earth creationists are willing to admit that the evidence really indicates an old age but they believe God created everything just a few thousand years ago with the appearance of age. They usually point to Adam as an example of this, who would have appeared to be a couple of decades old despite being created a few minutes ago.

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