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Anyone have good arguments against Calvinism.

Hoping2

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You are talking about the lifelong journey for sanctification. You have been justified but not sanctified yet.
I can't agree, as the atoning, sanctifying, justifying, blood of Jesus has been applied to my vessel already, at my baptism into Jesus and into His death.
Also John tells us the following in his epistle.
“If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous, so that He will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭1‬:‭8‬-‭10‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬
That verse, and verses 6 and 10 of 1 John 1, apply to those still walking in darkness. (which Pro 4:19 says "is the way of the wicked")
The verses applying to those walking in God, (the light), are verses 5, 7, and 9...which is the first step to righteousness.
Thankfully, I walk now in the light: and all my past sins were washed away by the blood of Christ.
 
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Repentance is certainly not for receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life. God has stated receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life is by belief in Jesus.

So repentance is for a believer who is sinning, to reestablish a broken relationship with God their Father. That has been broken because of their sin. If they do not repent God may bring punishment and judgment upon the sinning believer even take their earthly life. Read all of Hebrews 10:26->

For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
There is an elect, this we know from scripture.
What we don’t know is who the elect actually are.
That is why scripture says to strive to make your calling and election sure. We do that by striving in good works, one of which is repentance.
Life is a spiritual battle, and we must continually fight. To look down on repentance and striving to make our election sure is to ignore the warnings of scripture and commit the sin of presumption. God does not owe us salvation and His elect are anything but presumptive
If we do presume our election and ignore the advice of scripture, how can we be sure that we are of the elect and not a member of the goats?

Jesus warns us to walk the narrow way and strive to enter by the straight gate. He does not give us license to wantonly disregard His teaching

We do not know that we are saved until we face the judgement and enter heaven. Until then, we are capable of being deceived
 
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Hentenza

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I can't agree, as the atoning, sanctifying, justifying, blood of Jesus has been applied to my vessel already, at my baptism into Jesus and into His death.
Not yet brother. You are positionally there by virtue of the atonement, however, your sanctification which leads to glorification is a life long journey. You still sin. Don’t fool yourself that you don’t.
That verse, and verses 6 and 10 of 1 John 1, apply to those still walking in darkness. (which Pro 4:19 says "is the way of the wicked")
The verses applying to those walking in God, (the light), are verses 5, 7, and 9...which is the first step to righteousness.
Thankfully, I walk now in the light: and all my past sins were washed away by the blood of Christ.
Again, read the verses plainly without doing mental gymnastics. 1 John was written to the churches not to unbelievers. The purpose was to fight gnostic false teachers that taught docetism and cerinthianism. John was dispelling the false teachings and assuring the believers of their salvation. Those in darkness are the false teachers not the audience for this epistle.
 
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d taylor

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There is an elect, this we know from scripture.
What we don’t know is who the elect actually are.
That is why scripture says to strive to make your calling and election sure. We do that by striving in good works, one of which is repentance.
Life is a spiritual battle, and we must continually fight. To look down on repentance and striving to make our election sure is to ignore the warnings of scripture and commit the sin of presumption. God does not owe us salvation and His elect are anything but presumptive
If we do presume our election and ignore the advice of scripture, how can we be sure that we are of the elect and not a member of the goats?

Jesus warns us to walk the narrow way and strive to enter by the straight gate. He does not give us license to wantonly disregard His teaching

We do not know that we are saved until we face the judgement and enter heaven. Until then, we are capable of being deceived
-
At the very moment a person believes in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. They become a permanent born again child of God. Crossing over from death to life and will not come into judgment.

So i am not sure whose erroneous teaching has taught you that believers will face a judgment to see if they are really a believer.

I am not going to get into a long typed out response to 2 Peter 1. If you want to read this excellent article about 2 Peter 1 here is a link Making Your Calling and Election Sure: An Exposition of 2 Peter 1:5-11 – Grace Evangelical Society
 
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At the very moment a person believes in Jesus for God's free gift of Eternal Life. They become a permanent born again child of God. Crossing over from death to life and will not come into judgment.

So i am not sure whose erroneous teaching has taught you that believers will face a judgment to see if they are really a believer.

I am not going to get into a long typed out response to 2 Peter 1. If you want to read this excellent article about 2 Peter 1 here is a link Making Your Calling and Election Sure: An Exposition of 2 Peter 1:5-11 – Grace Evangelical Society
So you believe in once saved always saved?
Then tell me what is the purpose of life? If we are saved at the moment we believe, why do we not instantly die and go to be with the Lord? What is the purpose of life in which we continue to sin?

If you say to help save others then you contradict yourself because you say we are saved by the sovereign grace of God and cannot be saved by works. What would we need the works of others to achieve? Life would then seem a waste of time.

I do not believe that you fully understand the position you are taking, nor what the scriptures say about the Gospel. You seem to be clinging to the words of a man and what he has to say about scripture rather than the scriptures themselves

I know that life is not a waste of time and God has His divine purpose. It is merely your logic which would make it seem so. Who then is in error?
 
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Hentenza

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So you believe in once saved always saved?
Then tell me what is the purpose of life? If we are saved at the moment we believe, why do we not instantly die and go to be with the Lord? What is the purpose of life in which we continue to sin?

If you say to help save others then you contradict yourself because you say we are saved by the sovereign grace of God and cannot be saved by works. What would we need the works of others to achieve? Life would then seem a waste of time.

I do not believe that you fully understand the position you are taking, nor what the scriptures say about the Gospel. You seem to be clinging to the words of a man and what he has to say about scripture rather than the scriptures themselves

I know that life is not a waste of time and God has His divine purpose. It is merely your logic which would make it seem so. Who then is in error?
But given that we are saved by the grace of God through faith apart from works (Eph. 2) then I don’t understand your argument. Are you saying that works are ultimately what saves? That’s almost like believing that the Christian is still under the law, don’t you think?
 
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d taylor

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So you believe in once saved always saved?
Then tell me what is the purpose of life? If we are saved at the moment we believe, why do we not instantly die and go to be with the Lord? What is the purpose of life in which we continue to sin?

If you say to help save others then you contradict yourself because you say we are saved by the sovereign grace of God and cannot be saved by works. What would we need the works of others to achieve? Life would then seem a waste of time.

I do not believe that you fully understand the position you are taking, nor what the scriptures say about the Gospel. You seem to be clinging to the words of a man and what he has to say about scripture rather than the scriptures themselves

I know that life is not a waste of time and God has His divine purpose. It is merely your logic which would make it seem so. Who then is in error?
_
I just simply believe God's promise that is recorded in The Bible, if you do not then that is between you and God.
So God's free gift is everlasting/eternal life, why is the free gift called everlasting/eternal life if a person can lose it.
As for why am i still on earth because God has for believers. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.


that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

----------------
“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
----------------
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”
She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”
 
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Hoping2

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Not yet brother. You are positionally there by virtue of the atonement, however, your sanctification which leads to glorification is a life long journey. You still sin. Don’t fool yourself that you don’t.
I disagree.
If the Lord's blood didn't sanctify me, then why was it shed ?
Why was blood sprinkled on the OT altars for their sanctification, if blood doesn't sanctify/cleanse ? (Lev 16:19)
Again, read the verses plainly without doing mental gymnastics. 1 John was written to the churches not to unbelievers. The purpose was to fight gnostic false teachers that taught docetism and cerinthianism. John was dispelling the false teachings and assuring the believers of their salvation. Those in darkness are the false teachers not the audience for this epistle.
I walk in the light, and 1 John 1:7 says the blood of Christ washes away ALL sin.
Of course it is incumbent on me to remain in the light-God in order to remain cleansed.

Do you walk in the darkness, or in the light ?
You cannot walk in both.
 
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Hentenza

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I disagree.
Then you are deceived
If the Lord's blood didn't sanctify me, then why was it shed ?
Why was blood sprinkled on the OT altars for their sanctification, if blood doesn't sanctify/cleanse ? (Lev 16:19
Blood of bulls, really?
I walk in the light, and 1 John 1:7 says the blood of Christ washes away ALL sin.
Of course it is incumbent on me to remain in the light-God in order to remain cleansed.

Do you walk in the darkness, or in the light ?
You cannot walk in both.
Non responsive. Nothing here addresses my post.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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But given that we are saved by the grace of God through faith apart from works (Eph. 2) then I don’t understand your argument. Are you saying that works are ultimately what saves? That’s almost like believing that the Christian is still under the law, don’t you think?
Our "response", both in heart, and deeds, to God's offer of salvation determines if we are saved. No one is "justified" by deeds, we can not claim the level of perfection needed to be saved. But we must have deeds, or we will not be Luke 20:35 ... counted worthy to attain that age

Joh 14:15-16 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—​
Joh 14:22-24 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?" Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.​

The fact is the Father's love is not poured out if we don't make a choice to go God's way.

Quoting from The Way and Free Will

OSAS and Lawlessness​

Now let’s move to the issue of preservation of salvation. The acronym OSAS stands for Once Saved Always Saved. It is the logical conclusion of accepting Predestination. If God fixes destinies, if I am saved now, then I will always remain saved. The thinking that I will be saved no matter what can lead to (although not always) the thought that it does not matter if I sin, which in turn can lead to lawlessness, even a falling away from Christ.

To counter the thought of OSAS we will show from scripture that people can lose their salvation after receiving it.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. (NKJV, Hebrews 6:4-6)​

The first passage shows us clearly, that people who were “once enlightened” - given sight by God, “have tasted the heavenly gift” and have even “become partakers of the Holy Spirit”, can fall away from God, and if they die in sin, will be crucifying Christ again.

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A DOG RETURNS TO HIS OWN VOMIT,” and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.” (NKJV, 2 Peter 2:20-22)​

Peter also shows this same fact, that people who have escaped the pollution of the world can again be entangled in them and lost.

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? (Heb 10:26-29)​

Hebrews states that there is a worse punishment for those who fell away knowing Christ.

Even Jesus Himself spoke of casting away people who draw away from Him.

So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. (Rev 3:16)​

Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent. (Rev 2:5)​

Lampstands in scripture refer to the Holy Spirit; so Revelation 2:5 is a very severe warning, if as a Christian we go back to sin, and don't repent, God will remove the Spirit from us.

2Pe 3:17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked;​

So from the scriptures, we can see that OSAS is not logical.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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Look carefully at the following scripture:

Rom 2:2-11 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who "WILL RENDER TO EACH ONE ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS": eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For there is no partiality with God.

This tells us, God's judgment comes on us if we persist in our sins. That we will be judged according to "OUR DEEDS". We can't say "Oh 'THEY' are fornicators", and we watch inappropriate movies. We can't persist in sin, and call ourselves saved by "grace". We need to fight the flesh with the help of the Holy Spirit.

Grace is there for "if we sin", but we "should not sin" (1Jn 2:1).
 
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Hentenza

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Our "response", both in heart, and deeds, to God's offer of salvation determines if we are saved. No one is "justified" by deeds, we can not claim the level of perfection needed to be saved. But we must have deeds, or we will not be Luke 20:35 ... counted worthy to attain that age

Joh 14:15-16 "If you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever—​
Joh 14:22-24 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?" Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.​

The fact is the Father's love is not poured out if we don't make a choice to go God's way.
Good works flow naturally from a saved person’s heart. We work from saltation not for salvation. The exhortations throughout scripture are references to the sanctification process. After all, James and Paul are not in tension but teach both sides of the coin.
Quoting from The Way and Free Will

OSAS and Lawlessness​

Now let’s move to the issue of preservation of salvation. The acronym OSAS stands for Once Saved Always Saved. It is the logical conclusion of accepting Predestination. If God fixes destinies, if I am saved now, then I will always remain saved. The thinking that I will be saved no matter what can lead to (although not always) the thought that it does not matter if I sin, which in turn can lead to lawlessness, even a falling away from Christ.
If you can’t debate using your own words and understanding then you are not familiar with the topic and are merely parroting someone else’s response. I am debating you not the author of your c&p. What I quoted above from your c&p is completely wrong and assumes an unbelievers heart. As a loose association, confessing your sins to a priest every Sunday creates a false sense of repentance that promotes sinning with abandon during the week given that next Sunday all of those sins will be forgiven.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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If you can’t debate using your own words and understanding then you are not familiar with the topic and are merely parroting someone else’s response. I am debating you not the author of your c&p. What I quoted above from your c&p is completely wrong and assumes an unbelievers heart.
That is "My Book", they are "My words".
As a loose association, confessing your sins to a priest every Sunday creates a false sense of repentance that promotes sinning with abandon during the week given that next Sunday all of those sins will be forgiven.
What makes you think that I am Catholic? I am not.
 
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FutureAndAHope

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Good works flow naturally from a saved person’s heart. We work from saltation not for salvation. The exhortations throughout scripture are references to the sanctification process. After all, James and Paul are not in tension but teach both sides of the coin.

We "daily" need to avoid sin. This is a "work", that we put effort into. We do this in respect for the LORD, and the reality that if we don't persist in righteousness, we can fall. No one denies sanctification. But Calvinism denies God's word that we can fall.
 
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Hentenza

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We "daily" need to avoid sin. This is a "work", that we put effort into. We do this in respect for the LORD, and the reality that if we don't persist in righteousness, we can fall. No one denies sanctification. But Calvinism denies God's word that we can fall.
I will posit to you that all born again Christians avoid sin as much as being in the flesh allows (Rom 7).

As far as falling, Paul describes how the believers are judged based on their works in 1 Cor. 3:10-15. Salvation is assured for the believers.
 
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Hentenza

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d taylor

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Hebrews 6 is not addressing a believer falling away and losing their eternal life or another way of saying a believer crossing back over from life to death and becoming un-born again.

Hebrews is addressing a fallen away believer being renewed to repentance not renewing back to eternal life.
The act of repentance is being addressed, not the receiving eternal life again, by a fallen away believer.
The type of believers being addressed are ones who fall away so far from a relationship with God their Father and back into the world. That it is impossible to restore them back into fellowship with God by repenting of their sin or sins.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
 
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Clare73

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Did not God and His Son provide all we need to accomplish that on your list ?
To do that, we would need a sinless nature, which we do not have.
Yes He did; and I use all His grace, Spirit, and word to remain always pleasing to Him.
It is written..."But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life." (Rom 6:22)
And..."Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:" (Col 1:28)
Do you want to be like that ?
Perfection in Christ Jesus does not mean personal sinlessness.

It means the imputed righteousness of Christ (Ro 5:18-19, 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, Php 3:9).
 
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Hoping2

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I will posit to you that all born again Christians avoid sin as much as being in the flesh allows (Rom 7).

As far as falling, Paul describes how the believers are judged based on their works in 1 Cor. 3:10-15. Salvation is assured for the believers.
Born again Christians, (the only kind of Christian), are not "in the flesh".
We are in the Spirit.
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom 8:9)
 
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Hoping2

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To do that, we would need a sinless nature, which we do not have.
Your old man was destroyed and you were reborn of God's seed... but kept the old nature ???
That makes the nature of God sinfully oriented !
I cannot agree.
Perfection in Christ Jesus does not mean personal sinlessness.
Yes, it does.
If it doesn't, then there is sin in Christ.
It means the imputed righteousness of Christ (Ro 5:18-19, 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, Php 3:9).
How can we be different from what is imputed to us ?
 
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