- Dec 14, 2020
- 4,971
- 542
- 67
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Where did Jesus say that ? You just read it, frankly you cant understand it.
Upvote
0
-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
- Thread starter Brightfame52
- Start date
ThatDumbChicken
Active Member
- Jun 9, 2025
- 26
- 22
- 59
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
It directly addresses the OP. You can't reconcile Hebrews 11, so you just wave it away. Nice theology you got there.
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 4,971
- 542
- 67
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Upvote
0
Jack Terrence
Fighting the good fight
False. Paul said that God justifies the ungodly (Romans 4:5). The ungodly are unregenerate. The ungodly are justified by faith. Therefore, faith precedes regeneration.
Even the Westminster Confession which is Calvinist says that God justifies men "not for anything wrought in them or done by them." God justifies the ungodly (unregenerate) by faith. Then he gives them new life in regeneration. Regeneration is for sanctification (Calvin's Institutes 3.11.1).
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 4,971
- 542
- 67
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 4,971
- 542
- 67
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Jn 6:44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The drawing of the Father of some to come to/believe in Christ is actually the Father giving them to His Son Jn 6:65
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Again Jn 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
This is the only way a man can come to believe in Christ, it can be only by the will of the Father, not mans so called freewill.
See the natural mans will as he is, is dead, spiritually dead in sin, hes in a hopeless lost state, and not only cannot come, but will not come /believe Jn 5:40, and Rom 3:11.
The word given in Jn 6:65 and giveth in Jn 6:37 is the same word δίδωμί and it means:
to give one to some one as his own: as the object of his saving care, to give one to someone, to follow him as a leader and master,
God is said to have given certain men to Christ, i. e. to have disposed them to acknowledge Christ as the author and medium of their salvation, and to enter into intimate relations with him, hence Christ calls them 'his own' (τὰ ἐμά, John 10:14).
So we have God causing them to be willing in the day of His Power Ps 110:3
3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
The drawing of the Father of some to come to/believe in Christ is actually the Father giving them to His Son Jn 6:65
65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Again Jn 6:37
All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
This is the only way a man can come to believe in Christ, it can be only by the will of the Father, not mans so called freewill.
See the natural mans will as he is, is dead, spiritually dead in sin, hes in a hopeless lost state, and not only cannot come, but will not come /believe Jn 5:40, and Rom 3:11.
The word given in Jn 6:65 and giveth in Jn 6:37 is the same word δίδωμί and it means:
to give one to some one as his own: as the object of his saving care, to give one to someone, to follow him as a leader and master,
God is said to have given certain men to Christ, i. e. to have disposed them to acknowledge Christ as the author and medium of their salvation, and to enter into intimate relations with him, hence Christ calls them 'his own' (τὰ ἐμά, John 10:14).
So we have God causing them to be willing in the day of His Power Ps 110:3
3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
Upvote
0
enoob57
Well-Known Member
- Feb 16, 2022
- 554
- 140
- 67
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Divorced
That is a wrangling of the text. It is not supported by the grammar and it’s twisted to fit your theology. Period. It is born out of Augustinian theology of the fourth century anyone with scholastic ability can search and find out that this is true.TULIP is an errant theology…
Upvote
0
Jack Terrence
Fighting the good fight
Too lazy to look it up? John 831-32
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed in Him, “If you continue in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
Calvinists like to cite verse 34 "If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed" in isolation from the preceding verses. First, we believe. Then we are progressively set free as we continue in his word.
I marvel that you say I don't understand it when it seems that you didn't even know Jesus said it.
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 4,971
- 542
- 67
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 4,971
- 542
- 67
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 4,971
- 542
- 67
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Jew or Gentile doesnt matter all of us are born under sin and its power, spiritually dead.
Upvote
0
enoob57
Well-Known Member
- Feb 16, 2022
- 554
- 140
- 67
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Divorced
This is what I love about God‘s word it dispels darkness and lies
1 John 2:1-3 (KJV)
1My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
Upvote
0
- Oct 12, 2020
- 8,427
- 2,803
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
You didn't speak on 2 Peter 2:1 in any language, so I can only assume that means you can't reconcile it with your doctrine. Why else would you be silent about it?
Grow up. If you believed the truth, then you would be able to explain it.
Total nonsense. Is this all you have to offer is misrepresentations of what I believe? Why should anyone take you seriously? My view of the death of Christ is that He died to give all people in the whole world the opportunity to be saved and have eternal life. It is YOU who dishonors Him by limiting His atonement.
Last edited:
Upvote
0
- Oct 12, 2020
- 8,427
- 2,803
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
John 12:32 refers to all people being drawn. Something you deny. That is like denying that God wants all people to be saved even though scripture clearly teaches that He does (1 Timothy 2:3-6). The reason that some are not saved is not because of their supposed total depravity, but because they use their free will to choose to reject Christ and the gospel.
Upvote
0
Rescued One
...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
- Dec 12, 2002
- 36,182
- 6,767
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widowed
There is no puppetmaster. At what point do you achieve salvation?
Upvote
0
Rescued One
...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
- Dec 12, 2002
- 36,182
- 6,767
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Female
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Widowed
Upvote
0
Fervent
Well-Known Member
- Sep 22, 2020
- 6,695
- 2,877
- 45
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Simply claiming there is no puppetmaster doesn't make the charge go away. Calvinist paint God as the only one able to act, because Calvinists beleive everything has been meticulously decreed and God has decided how every person will act in every instance. If we have no genuine freedom, then we are merely puppets and everything including this conversation and my disgust at the Calvinist vision of God were decided by God in eternity past. So Calvinists turn God into a double-minded puppet master and make a mockery of concepts like love and justice by painting God as unloving and injust.
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 4,971
- 542
- 67
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
The only ones who will come to Christ/believe in Him for all Salvation will be His Sheep Jn 10:26. And its not by their own freewill nor anything native or natural within them, but by the Father having given them to the Son Jn 6:37,65 which speaks to Election. The Father by drawing them to Christ, actually, by His Spirit of Grace, causes them to come or believe in Christ, hence all credit, praise, honor must go to God for a person believing in Jesus Christ for Salvation. See Phil 1:29
For unto you it is given on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 9
For unto you it is given on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, 9
Upvote
0
- Dec 14, 2020
- 4,971
- 542
- 67
- Country
- United States
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
Upvote
0
Similar threads
