Jesus claimed He came to fulfill the Law, Did He?

Hentenza · Saturday at 4:59 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
In context, Paul is correcting that the Jews were trying to force new Gentile converts to getting circumcised in order to hear the gospel Gal 2:3 and for salvation Acts 15:1 as they were teaching all they had to do is get circumcised in order to be saved.

That is correct but what that actually means is that the Jews wanted the Christians to BE Jews which also included the following of the law. Circumcision is part of the law. Paul‘s words here teach the opposite of your false teaching.

Hentenza · Saturday at 5:03 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
Perhaps for some people faith leads to worshipping other gods, using His holy name in vain, bowing to false images, breaking His holy Sabbath day, not honoring our father and mother, murdering, stealing, committing adultery, lying and coveting, but I do not think thats what Paul had in mind when He said righteousness is by faith and faith does not void the law but establishes, but I guess we will all find out at His soon return. The more people are set in their decisions Rev 22:11 the sooner Jesus will come back.

Those would be the ones that profess Christ outwardly but not inwardly. Those born again walk in the Spirit.

SabbathBlessings said:
I will just once again agree to disagree.

I’ll be around.

SabbathBlessings · Saturday at 5:07 PM

The outwardly shows if our inwardly is fixed or not as Jesus taught. Mat 5:19-30

Joh 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.
Joh 15:8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
Joh 15:9 "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.
Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments

1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

HIM · Saturday at 5:12 PM

Hentenza said:
Pleroma- to fulfill.

πλήρωμα plḗrōma, play'-ro-mah; from G4137; repletion or completion, i.e. (subjectively) what fills (as contents, supplement, copiousness, multitude), or (objectively) what is filled (as container, performance, period):—which is put in to fill up, piece that filled up, fulfilling, full, fulness.

One should not quote Greek unless they know it a bit better than quoting Strongs.

There is a lot in that citation. All of which depends on Context, syntax and grammar.
Keep mind in respect to Romans Jesus said that all the Law and prophets Hang, depend on the Love of God above all else and the Love for one another.
Hang my friend in the sense of depends not done away with.

Hentenza said:
The law is finished, repleted, completed. The oxford dictionary only gives the meaning of the translated word not the original, Greek word.

Even from the Oxford dictionary I don’t know where you got your definition or if you only copied what supported your belief but here is the definition of the English word fulfilled.

1. fulfill something to do or achieve what was hoped for or expectedto fulfill your dream/ambition/potential
2. fulfill something to do or have what is required or necessaryto fulfill a duty/an obligation/a promiseto fulfill the terms/conditions of an agreementNo candidate fulfills all the criteria for this position.

Repleting or completing something doesn't negate unless specified. And Jesus didn't. As a matter of Fact, he said he did not come to destroy, loosen down the Law or the prophets. He came to fulfill, do to it's fullest, cause to abound Matt 5.

Couple that with the fact that he also said those who break and teach the least of these commandments, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

If fulfilled was meant done away with as you proclaim then there are a lot contradictions and wasted words within the same passage. Thank the Lord our God it doesn't.

Hentenza · Saturday at 5:18 PM

HIM said:
One should not quote Greek unless they know it a bit better than quoting Strongs.

There is a lot in that citation. All of which depends on Context, syntax and grammar.
Keep mind in respect to Romans Jesus said that all the Law and prophets Hang, depend on the Love of God above all else and the Love for one another.
Hang my friend in the sense of depends not done away with.

This says absolutely nothing. Is totally unresponsive and did not address my post.

HIM said:
Repleting or completing something doesn't negate unless specified. And Jesus didn't. As a matter of Fact, he said he did not come to destroy, loosen down the Law or the prophets. He came to fulfill, do to it's fullest, cause to abound Matt 5.

Couple that with the fact that he also said those who break and teach the least of these commandments, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven.

If fulfilled was meant done away with as you proclaim then there are a lot contradictions and wasted words within the same passage. Thank the Lord our God it doesn't.

Fulfill means completed. Once again, completely unresponsive. You need evidence if you want to make a point.

Hentenza · Saturday at 5:37 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
The outwardly shows if our inwardly is fixed or not as Jesus taught. Mat 5:19-30

Sermon on the mount. Audience: mostly Jewish people. Jesus is in fact telling them that they have to keep all of the law but then in verse 20 He drops the bombshell.

““For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Matthew 5:20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. | New American Standard Bible - NASB 1995 (NASB1995) | Download The Bible App Now

“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

bible.com

lol good luck to them. Do you think their righteousness will surpass the scribes and the Pharisees? These were the teachers of the law. The ones that knew the law above everyone else (except for Jesus).

SabbathBlessings said:
Joh 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
Joh 15:6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you.
Joh 15:8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
Joh 15:9 "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.
Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments

What is the difference between Jesus’s commandments and the commandments of the Father. Hint, 2 commandments vs 613.

SabbathBlessings said:
1 John 3:24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

By this, keeping His commandments, by the Spirit whom he has given us. Walk in the Spirit and you will be convicted by the Spirit not by the law.

SabbathBlessings said:
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

This talks about the remnant of Israel, the 144000 (12000 per tribe). They are still under the law Jesus name and the Fathers name are written on their foreheads.

“Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Context is everything.

Revelation 14:1 Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads. | New American Standard Bible - NASB 1995 (NASB19

Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.

bible.com

SabbathBlessings · Saturday at 5:50 PM

Hentenza said:
Sermon on the mount. Audience: mostly Jewish people. Jesus is in fact telling them that they have to keep all of the law but then in verse 20 He drops the bombshell.

Jesus said

Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Hentenza said:
““For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5‬:‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Matthew 5:20 “For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. | New American Standard Bible - NASB 1995 (NASB1995) | Download The Bible App Now

“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

bible.com

lol good luck to them. Do you think their righteousness will surpass the scribes and the Pharisees? These were the teachers of the law. The ones that knew the law above everyone else (except for Jesus).

Yes, Jesus condemned the Pharisees for keeping their own laws/traditions over obeying the commandments of God quoting right from the Ten Commandments, so following their path of disobedience, it not the path Jesus told us to take

Mat 15:1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying,
Mat 15:2 "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."
Mat 15:3 He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?
Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, 'HE WHO CURSES FATHER OR MOTHER, LET HIM BE PUT TO DEATH.'
Mat 15:5 But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God"—
Mat 15:6 then he need not honor his father or mother.' Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.
Mat 15:7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
Mat 15:8 'THESE PEOPLE DRAW NEAR TO ME WITH THEIR MOUTH, AND HONOR ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME.
Mat 15:9 AND IN VAIN THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.' "

This path of the Pharisees by keeping our own laws/traditions instead of keeping the commandments of God is the path that leads to a ditch Mat 15:14 our righteous needs to exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees so doing what Jesus condemned is not the way.

Mat 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

Hentenza said:
What is the difference between Jesus’s commandments and the commandments of the Father. Hint, 2 commandments vs 613.

The only Biblical number God ever gave was Ten Commandments and He claimed them as His.

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

The same ones Jesus quoted from saying when we lay them aside (meaning not for us) in vain we worship Him. Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

Hentenza said:
By this, keeping His commandments, by the Spirit whom he has given us. Walk in the Spirit and you will be convicted by the Spirit not by the law.

This talks about the remnant of Israel, the 144000 (12000 per tribe). They are still under the law Jesus name and the Fathers name are written on their foreheads.

If we are not grafted into Israel and the promises made to Abraham through faith Gal 3:26-29 not the place we want to be when Jesus comes.

Hentenza said:
“Then I looked, and behold, the Lamb was standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14‬:‭1‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Amen!

Hentenza said:
Context is everything.

Yes.

Hentenza · Saturday at 6:11 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
Jesus said

Mat 5:19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Yes that what it says and I just addressed it.

ὅς hós, hos; probably a primary word (or perhaps a form of the article G3588); the relatively (sometimes demonstrative) pronoun, who, which, what, that:—one, (an-, the) other, some, that, what, which, who(-m, -se), etc. See also G3757.

Whoever refers to the people he is addressing. It could even be translated as one.

SabbathBlessings said:
Yes, Jesus condemned the Pharisees for keeping their own laws/traditions over obeying the commandments of God quoting right from the Ten Commandments, so following their path of disobedience, it not the path Jesus told us to take

Mat 15:1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying,
Mat 15:2 "Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread."
Mat 15:3 He answered and said to them, "Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?
Mat 15:4 For God commanded, saying, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, 'HE WHO CURSES FATHER OR MOTHER, LET HIM BE PUT TO DEATH.'
Mat 15:5 But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God"—
Mat 15:6 then he need not honor his father or mother.' Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.
Mat 15:7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:
Mat 15:8 'THESE PEOPLE DRAW NEAR TO ME WITH THEIR MOUTH, AND HONOR ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR FROM ME.
Mat 15:9 AND IN VAIN THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.' "

Of course He is teaching the Pharisees. He is showing them the hypocrisy of the teachings and behaviors. Once again, He is addressing a Jewish audience. Jesus doesn't care that He insulted the Pharisees in front of an audience. That was His purpose. Again, He is showing the people the inadequcies of the law.

SabbathBlessings said:
The only Bible number God ever gave was Ten Commandments and He claimed them as His.

Deu 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

But you follow more then the Ten Commandments. You follow all of the law. If you follow the Ten Commandments for salvation then you have to follow the law of Moses that gives you the instructions on how to follow them. You are under the law.

SabbathBlessings said:
The same ones Jesus quoted from saying when we lay them aside (meaning not for us) in vain we worship Him. Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13

Nah just the two. Jesus gave us 2 commandments God gave Israel 613 commandments. That fact is irrefutable.

SabbathBlessings said:
If we are not grafted into Israel through and the promises made to Abraham Gal 3:26028, not the place we want to me when Jesus comes.

We are grafted into the tree as gentiles. Gentiles do not equal Israel.

SabbathBlessings said:
Amen!

Yes.

Great.

SabbathBlessings · Saturday at 6:15 PM

Hentenza said:
Yes that what it says and I just addressed it.

ὅς hós, hos; probably a primary word (or perhaps a form of the article G3588); the relatively (sometimes demonstrative) pronoun, who, which, what, that:—one, (an-, the) other, some, that, what, which, who(-m, -se), etc. See also G3757.

Whoever refers to the people he is addressing. It could even be translated as one.

Of course He is teaching the Pharisees. He is showing them the hypocrisy of the teachings and behaviors. Once again, He is addressing a Jewish audience. Jesus doesn't care that He insulted the Pharisees in front of an audience. That was His purpose. Again, He is showing the people the inadequcies of the law.

But you follow more then the Ten Commandments. You follow all of the law. If you follow the Ten Commandments for salvation then you have to follow the law of Moses that gives you the instructions on how to follow them. You are under the law.

Nah just the two. Jesus gave us 2 commandments God gave Israel 613 commandments. That fact is irrefutable.

We are grafted into the tree as gentiles. Gentiles do not equal Israel.

Great.

Much different understanding of God's Word. I personally believe Jesus means what He says, we do not need to talk for Him- He meant this, He meant that etc. Whoever means Jewish people and not what He stated and we can gloss over the warning. This is very much leaning on our own understanding Pro 3:5-6 instead of letting Him direct our paths.

If Mat 5 is meant for Jewish people, no need to worry about what fulfill means or all the blessing provided in this passage.

Guess it will get sorted out at His soon return. So back to the same spot, agree to disagree.

Be well.

Hentenza · Saturday at 6:18 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
Much different understanding of God's Word. Guess it will get sorted out at His soon return.

Much different than yours but then I follow the Spirit while you follow the law. I’ll be around.

Hentenza · Saturday at 6:32 PM

SabbathBlessings said:
God is our righteous Judge, not strangers on the internet. Nothing we can hide from Him Ecc 12:13-14. Why He said many will say Lord Lord at His Second Coming- only to hear words we don't want to hear Mat 7:23 only He knows the wheat from the tares.

Again judging other Christians that disagree with you. Typical from those that follow the law. Cults use this strategy to keep people obedient and pliable.

HIM · Sunday at 3:39 AM

Hentenza said:
So then, as Paul teaches, live in the Spirit not in the law. Faith does not established the law.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Hentenza said:
In fact, the law was never of faith which is why as Christians we are saved by the grace of God through faith and not by works. The Christian has been born again and their sins washed away by the blood of Christ. The Just live by faith not by the law.

I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ. By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name: For The just shall live by faith. And this faith establishes the Law and speaks on this wise, say not in your heart who shall ascend up into heaven, that is bring Christ down from above or up from the deep. But what sayeth it? The word is nigh thee. In thy mouth and in thy heart. THAT IS the word of faith in which we preach. And that is what Paul through the Spirit taught in Romans and in Galatians.

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Leaf473 · Sunday at 5:50 AM

Don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you'll be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.

HIM · Sunday at 6:29 AM

Leaf473 said:
Don't be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you'll be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.

Renewing is participle. The word it is translated from is a noun. A state of being not a process.

Leaf473 · Sunday at 7:27 AM

HIM said:
Renewing is participle. The word it is translated from is a noun. A state of being not a process.

Sounds great! We're in a state of being of not having to observe the elements of this world

The earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof, the world and all who dwell therein.
For He has founded it upon the seas and established it upon the waters Psalm 24

SabbathBlessings · Sunday at 11:40 AM

@Bob S
Happy Birthday! I see that you will be 90 years old. That's quite an accomplishment. I hope you have a blessed day.

Grafted In · Sunday at 12:14 PM

In response to OP's original question, Yes

Jesus claimed He came to fulfill the Law, Did He?

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