Jesus claimed He came to fulfill the Law, Did He?

[Bob S]

One poster claims Jesus didn't fulfill ALL the Law, but Jesus in Matt 5: 17 said; “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Notice Jesus didn't say some of the laws, like the poster claims, because there is no qualifier in His words. Then Jesus went on to tell us that nothing could be removed from said Law until everything was accomplished. The poster also claims that indeed some of the commands of the Law have been fulfilled and are no longer required to be kept. It appears that the poster has been given the discretion to choose what commands can be disregarded.

To those of us posters that believe Jesus did what He came to do, fulfill all the Law, the poster threatens that unless we abide by the commands of the Law we are in a lawless state. According to him/her we have to keep the commands of the Law with emphasis on the Sabbath command in order to be saved.

So, the reason for this thread is to discuss Matt 5:17-18. Did Jesus fail to fulfill what He came to do or did He keep His word and during His stay on this Earth bring an end to the Law? We have no qualms about His fulfilling and bringing to a final end the prophecies concerning Him. Why do some hesitate to believe He did the same for the Law?

 

[Abaxvahl]

One poster claims Jesus didn't fulfill ALL the Law, but Jesus in Matt 5: 17 said; “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Notice Jesus didn't say some of the laws, like the poster claims, because there is no qualifier in His words. Then Jesus went on to tell us that nothing could be removed from said Law until everything was accomplished. The poster also claims that indeed some of the commands of the Law have been fulfilled and are no longer required to be kept. It appears that the poster has been given the discretion to choose what commands can be disregarded.

To those of us posters that believe Jesus did what He came to do, fulfill all the Law, the poster threatens that unless we abide by the commands of the Law we are in a lawless state. According to him/her we have to keep the commands of the Law with emphasis on the Sabbath command in order to be saved.

So, the reason for this thread is to discuss Matt 5:17-18. Did Jesus fail to fulfill what He came to do or did He keep His word and during His stay on this Earth bring an end to the Law? We have no qualms about His fulfilling and bringing to a final end the prophecies concerning Him. Why do some hesitate to believe He did the same for the Law?

All was accomplished when the Lord said "it is finished" on the Cross. But to me the Law being fulfilled does not bring an end to it, I think Christians do indeed keep it, just in a way befitting Christians. To me it means something more like "transformed." For instance in the Eucharist and priesthood and "make living sacrifices of yourselves" we keep the Laws concerning priesthood and Sacrifice. The same for all the rest.

 

[childeye 2]

One poster claims Jesus didn't fulfill ALL the Law, but Jesus in Matt 5: 17 said; “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Notice Jesus didn't say some of the laws, like the poster claims, because there is no qualifier in His words. Then Jesus went on to tell us that nothing could be removed from said Law until everything was accomplished. The poster also claims that indeed some of the commands of the Law have been fulfilled and are no longer required to be kept. It appears that the poster has been given the discretion to choose what commands can be disregarded.

To those of us posters that believe Jesus did what He came to do, fulfill all the Law, the poster threatens that unless we abide by the commands of the Law we are in a lawless state. According to him/her we have to keep the commands of the Law with emphasis on the Sabbath command in order to be saved.

So, the reason for this thread is to discuss Matt 5:17-18. Did Jesus fail to fulfill what He came to do or did He keep His word and during His stay on this Earth bring an end to the Law? We have no qualms about His fulfilling and bringing to a final end the prophecies concerning Him. Why do some hesitate to believe He did the same for the Law?

I believe that the law Jesus is talking about fulfilling is love God with all your heart mind and soul and your neighbor as yourself.

 

[Bob S]

All was accomplished when the Lord said "it is finished" on the Cross. But to me the Law being fulfilled does not bring an end to it, I think Christians do indeed keep it, just in a way befitting Christians. To me it means something more like "transformed." For instance in the Eucharist and priesthood and "make living sacrifices of yourselves" we keep the Laws concerning priesthood and Sacrifice. The same for all the rest.

I, too, believe we can glean much from the Law God gave Israel, but are we obligated to keeping all of those commands. Did Jesus do what He said He came to do so that the Jews no longer are under those laws?

 

[BobRyan]

One poster claims Jesus didn't fulfill ALL the Law, but Jesus in Matt 5: 17 said; “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Notice Jesus didn't say some of the laws,

Indeed - Jesus fulfilled the Law to "not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 perfectly.

He also fulfilled the Law to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:8 fulfilled perfectly.

He also perfectly fulfilled (complied with) the Law to "honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12.

Good thing "fulfill" does not mean "deleted"

to me the Law being fulfilled does not bring an end to it,

Exactly! Because "fulfilled" does not mean "deleted". When it comes to legal/moral imperatives it means "complied with".

When it comes to predictive laws such as animal sacrifices - then as Heb 10:4-12 reminds us - it means that the prediction is fulfilled and the law making that prediction is fully satisfied - "taken away" as the text says regarding "animal sacrifice and offerings".

 

[spiritfilledjm]

One poster claims Jesus didn't fulfill ALL the Law, but Jesus in Matt 5: 17 said; “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Notice Jesus didn't say some of the laws, like the poster claims, because there is no qualifier in His words. Then Jesus went on to tell us that nothing could be removed from said Law until everything was accomplished. The poster also claims that indeed some of the commands of the Law have been fulfilled and are no longer required to be kept. It appears that the poster has been given the discretion to choose what commands can be disregarded.

To those of us posters that believe Jesus did what He came to do, fulfill all the Law, the poster threatens that unless we abide by the commands of the Law we are in a lawless state. According to him/her we have to keep the commands of the Law with emphasis on the Sabbath command in order to be saved.

So, the reason for this thread is to discuss Matt 5:17-18. Did Jesus fail to fulfill what He came to do or did He keep His word and during His stay on this Earth bring an end to the Law? We have no qualms about His fulfilling and bringing to a final end the prophecies concerning Him. Why do some hesitate to believe He did the same for the Law?

We need to keep in mind the writings of James, Paul, and others who speaks on grace and sin as well. They make it clear in their writings that while our salvation no longer depends on the Law, we still should not sin. Paul says himself that those who continue to commit sins they shall not see the kingdom of God. Likewise, the writer of Hebrews says that those who continue to willfully sin, there is no sacrifice for them. Paul also posits the question of do we continue to sin so grace may abound? He also answers it with certainly not!

Therefore, we should do our best not to sin and when we do ask forgiveness and repent, thankfully, Jesus is more than willing to forgive us our sins.

Likewise, should we do everything the way that the Jews did it before Christ came? Also, no. Following things like circumcision, dietary requirements and, I believe, a strictly adhered to Sabbath, is of no consequence to our salvation. In fact, the Bible says to pray without ceasing. We should always have our minds on God which was the ultimate point of the Sabbath.

Ultimately, just because we are In the New Covenant does not make the Law irrelevant.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

One poster claims Jesus didn't fulfill ALL the Law, but Jesus in Matt 5: 17 said; “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Notice Jesus didn't say some of the laws, like the poster claims, because there is no qualifier in His words. Then Jesus went on to tell us that nothing could be removed from said Law until everything was accomplished. The poster also claims that indeed some of the commands of the Law have been fulfilled and are no longer required to be kept. It appears that the poster has been given the discretion to choose what commands can be disregarded.

To those of us posters that believe Jesus did what He came to do, fulfill all the Law, the poster threatens that unless we abide by the commands of the Law we are in a lawless state. According to him/her we have to keep the commands of the Law with emphasis on the Sabbath command in order to be saved.

So, the reason for this thread is to discuss Matt 5:17-18. Did Jesus fail to fulfill what He came to do or did He keep His word and during His stay on this Earth bring an end to the Law? We have no qualms about His fulfilling and bringing to a final end the prophecies concerning Him. Why do some hesitate to believe He did the same for the Law?

The fulfillment of the law by Jesus Christ of Nazareth is within each regenerated beliver through His Holy Spirit. He made His Home in us by releasing "The Comforter" to dwell in us. The law is now written in our hearts. "Love" is now the law.
Some choose to quench His Holy Spirit and delude "Love" with law. Some chose not to recieve His Holy Spirit at all using the works of the law rather than the Love and power of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. And some embrace His His Holy Spirit, freed from the bondage of the law.
Blessings.

 

[Freth]

Why would Jesus spend His whole ministry preaching the law and then do away with it? It makes no sense.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.​

What is the opposite of destroy?

Strong's G4137 plēroō fulfil

• to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
  • to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
    • I abound, I am liberally supplied
• to render full, i.e. to complete
  • to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
• to consummate: a number
  • to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
  • to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
• to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
  • of matters of duty: to perform, execute
  • of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
  • to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment.

Matthew Henry's Commentary In One Volume, pg. 1222, Verses 17-20 (Matthew):

The rule which Christ came to establish exactly agreed with the scriptures of the Old Testament, here called the law and the prophets. He protests against the thought of cancelling and weakening the Old Testament; "Think not that I am come to destroy the law and the prophets."

The Savior of souls is the destroyer of nothing that comes from God, much less of those excellent dictates which we have from Moses and the prophets. No, He came to fulfil them. That is,

• To obey the commands of the law. He in all respects yielded obedience to the law, and never broke the law in anything.
  
• To make good on the promises of the law, and the predictions of the prophets.
  
• To answer the types of the law.
  
• To fill up the [understanding] of it, and so to complete and perfect it. As a picture that is first rough-draw, displays some outlines only of the piece intended, which are afterwards filled up, so Christ made an improvement of the law and the prophets by His additions and explications.
  
• To carry on the same design. The gospel is the time of reformation (Hebrews 9:10), not the repeal of the law, but the amendment of it, and, consequently, its establishment.

He asserts the perpetuity of it. "Verily I say unto you, I, the Amen, the faithful Witness, solemnly declare it, that til heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle, shall in no wise pass from the law til all be fulfilled." The word of the Lord endures for ever, both that of the law, and that of the gospel. The care of God concerning His law extends itself even to those things that seem to be of least account on it, for whatever belongs to God, and bears His stamp, be it ever so little, shall be preserved.
​

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I agree with a lot of what you wrote but will have to respectfully disagree with this:

Likewise, should we do everything the way that the Jews did it before Christ came? Also, no. Following things like circumcision, dietary requirements and, We should always have our minds on God which was the ultimate point of the Sabbath.

We do not keep the Sabbath because of our Salvation. We keep the Sabbath because that is God's holy day and the day God commanded us to also keep holy. I read on these forums often people saying I keep my Sabbath on a Wednesday because that is my day off, or the day doesn't matter. I really think this undermines God, doing our will over the will of God. The Sabbath is a commandment from God. It's like breaking any other commandment. Breaking any of the commandments is considered sin 1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7

God's chosen holy day from Creation is the seventh day Sabbath. Genesis 2:1-3 it's also a handwritten commandment by our Creator and God told us to "Remember". The Sabbath is meant to be a memorial of creation. To remember everything God has created for us. God also told us to keep the day holy and it is a day to have communion with our Savior praying, reading the bible, nature walks etc. We are told the Sabbath is also a holy convocation Lev 23:3 and we see Jesus as our example going to the Temple on the Sabbath reading scriptures as it was His custom. Luke 4:16-17 While we should worship God every day, God tells us work six days Exodus 20:9. Is your birthday more special when it is celebrated on your actual birthday or a day that is more convenient to your loved ones? God was very specific about His holy Sabbath day. I personally don't think it's a good idea to override God's authority by deciding the day you choose over the day God blessed, sanctified, and told us to remember and keep holy. Just like I don't think its a good idea to eat something God tells us is an abomination to Him. We are given free will, but I really think it comes down to, do we follow God on His terms or our terms.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

I agree with a lot of what you wrote but will have to respectfully disagree with this:


We do not keep the Sabbath because of our Salvation.

I've seen you use Hebrews 10:26-27 in arguments for keeping the Saturday Sabbath which implies that one who does not do so is not truly saved.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I've seen you use Hebrews 10:26-27 in arguments for keeping the Saturday Sabbath which implies that one who does not do so is not truly saved.

I am not sure why people are so laser focused on isolating this one commandment. The Sabbath is the 4th commandment and part of a covenant of Ten that God personally wrote with His own finger and placed in the Most holy of God's Temple. Breaking one of the commandments is considered sin. 1 John 3:4, Romans 3:20, Romans 7:7 so whether it is breaking the Sabbath commandment, lying, worshipping other gods it is still sin and as you quoted once you know the truth and willfully sin there remains no more sacrifice. Jesus wants to save us from our sins and we have an Advocate with Jesus if we repent and turn from our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us. God will wink in times of ignorance so there will be many people saved who did not know the Sabbath truth. We have access to bibles now, God's Spirit is through His written Word why would we not want to obey what He asks? His commandments really are not burdensome. The "other spirit" wants you to think they are. The Sabbath which is the one commandment people say we should forget, but God told us to Remember and the Sabbath and holy day of the Lord thy God is meant to be a blessing and a delight and it's how God gets to know us and we get to know Him every Sabbath on His special day. Who do you really think wants us to forget about the Sabbath and God's holy day? It is certainly not God written by His own finger! Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy Exodus 20:8

God bless

 

[HARK!]

All was accomplished when the Lord said "it is finished" on the Cross.

All that was accomplished has been accomplished; but what has not yet been accomplished has not yet been accomplished.

These were some of Yahshua's last words, right before he ascended:

(CLV) Lk 24:44
Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."

 

[HARK!]

So, the reason for this thread is to discuss Matt 5:17-18. Did Jesus fail to fulfill what He came to do or did He keep His word and during His stay on this Earth bring an end to the Law? We have no qualms about His fulfilling and bringing to a final end the prophecies concerning Him. Why do some hesitate to believe He did the same for the Law?

See post #12.

Why do some hesitate to believe Yahshua's words?

 

[HARK!]

The fulfillment of the law by Jesus Christ of Nazareth is within each regenerated beliver through His Holy Spirit. He made His Home in us by releasing "The Comforter" to dwell in us. The law is now written in our hearts. "Love" is now the law.
Some choose to quench His Holy Spirit and delude "Love" with law. Some chose not to recieve His Holy Spirit at all using the works of the law rather than the Love and power of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. And some embrace His His Holy Spirit, freed from the bondage of the law.
Blessings.

(CLV) MarK 12: 28-34
28 And, approaching, one of the scribes, hearing them discussing, having perceived that He answered them ideally, inquires of Him, "What is the foremost precept of all? 29 Jesus answered him that "The foremost precept of all is: Hear, Israel! the Lord our God is one Lord." 30 And, You shall be loving the Lord God out of your whole heart, and out of your whole soul, and out of your whole comprehension, and out of your whole strength. This is the foremost precept."

Yahshua is quoting the Shema (That's in the law, for those who don't know):

(CLV) DT 6:4
4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One. 5 So you will love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity. 6 These words which I am instructing you today will come to be in your heart.

What is the love of YHWH?

What did YHWH say?

From the Decalogue
(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

What did Daniel say?

(CLV) Dn 9:4
I prayed indeed to Yahweh my Eloah. I confessed and said intensely, Oh, Yahweh, the great and fear inspiring El, Keeper of the covenant and the benignity for those loving Him and keeping His instructions:

What did Nehemiah say?

(CLV) Ne 1:5
I said: Oh, Yahweh Elohim of the heavens, the great and fear-inspiring El, Who is keeping the covenant and the benignity with those loving Him and observing His instructions,

What did Yahshua say?


(CLV) Jn 7:16
Jesus, then, answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His Who sends Me.

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

(CLV) Jn 14:21
He who has My precepts and is keeping them, he it is who is loving Me. Now he who is loving Me will be loved by My Father, and I shall be loving him and shall be disclosing Myself to him."

(CLV) Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and We shall be coming to him and making an abode with him.

(CLV) Jn 14:24
He who is not loving Me, is not keeping My words. And the word which you are hearing is not Mine, but the Father's Who sends Me.

(CLV) Jn 15:10
If ever you should be keeping My precepts, you will be remaining in My love, according as I have kept the precepts of My Father and am remaining in His love.



What did those who Yahshua taught say?

(CLV) 1Jn 2:4
He who is saying that "I know Him" and is not keeping His precepts, is a liar, and the truth of God is not in this one.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:2
In this we know that we are loving the children of God, whenever we may be loving God and may be doing His precepts.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

(CLV) 2Jn 1:6
And this is love, that we may be walking according to His precepts. This is the precept, according as you hear from the beginning, that you may be walking in it;

(CLV) Dt 30:16
If you should hearken to the instructions of Yahweh your Elohim that I am enjoining on you today, to love Yahweh your Elohim, to walk in His ways and to observe His instructions, His statutes and His ordinances, then you will live and multiply, and Yahweh your Elohim will bless you in the land where you are entering to tenant it.

 

[Bob S]

Why would Jesus spend His whole ministry preaching the law and then do away with it? It makes no sense.

It probably makes no sense to us why God created a perfect man, place him in a perfect garden and give him a beautiful helpmate then put the serpent in that garden to tempt them. I do not question God's plan for His children. I accept all that has happened to man since Adam. Why God gave Abraham the covenant of Grace and then gave Israel the covenant of laws is beyond my pay grade. The same goes for the new covenant for all mankind. Yes, it is very different from the Israelite covenant and I personally thank Him for not requiring Christians to do all the ritual requirements the Israelites failed to do.

Oh, to answer your question about Jesus teaching the Law and then at Calvary ending the covenant of law for the new covenant of Love and Grace is a gesture of His complete love for all mankind. Jeremiah answered your question if you listen to his words. Jere 31: It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.​

What is the opposite of destroy?

Strong's G4137 plēroō fulfil

• to make full, to fill up, i.e. to fill to the full
  • to cause to abound, to furnish or supply liberally
    • I abound, I am liberally supplied
• to render full, i.e. to complete
  • to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
• to consummate: a number
  • to make complete in every particular, to render perfect
  • to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
• to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise
  • of matters of duty: to perform, execute
  • of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish
  • to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment.

If you read my post I made plain that Jesus brought to an end the prophecies. Likewise, since He did both with the same word, fulfill indicates He came to keep the Law for those who couldn't thus ending the requirement. At Calvary He gave all mankind a new and better covenant and ratified it not with the blood of animals, but with His own blood. Again, I personally do not question God's plan of salvation for His children of which I am one.

Matthew Henry's Commentary In One Volume, pg. 1222, Verses 17-20 (Matthew):

The rule which Christ came to establish exactly agreed with the scriptures of the Old Testament, here called the law and the prophets. He protests against the thought of cancelling and weakening the Old Testament; "Think not that I am come to destroy the law and the prophets."

The Savior of souls is the destroyer of nothing that comes from God, much less of those excellent dictates which we have from Moses and the prophets. No, He came to fulfil them. That is,

• To obey the commands of the law. He in all respects yielded obedience to the law, and never broke the law in anything.
  
• To make good on the promises of the law, and the predictions of the prophets.
  
• To answer the types of the law.
  
• To fill up the [understanding] of it, and so to complete and perfect it. As a picture that is first rough-draw, displays some outlines only of the piece intended, which are afterwards filled up, so Christ made an improvement of the law and the prophets by His additions and explications.
  
• To carry on the same design. The gospel is the time of reformation (Hebrews 9:10), not the repeal of the law, but the amendment of it, and, consequently, its establishment.

I realy do not believe Matthew Henery disputes what I believe scripture is telling us.

He asserts the perpetuity of it. "Verily I say unto you, I, the Amen, the faithful Witness, solemnly declare it, that til heaven and earth pass, one jot, or one tittle, shall in no wise pass from the law til all be fulfilled." The word of the Lord endures for ever, both that of the law, and that of the gospel. The care of God concerning his law extends itself even to those things that seem to be of least account on it, for whatever belongs to God, and bears His stamp, be it ever so little, shall be preserved.

So, are you telling us Jesus was not able to do all He came to do? He didn't bring an end to the Sinai covenant laws? If you really believe He didn't bring a change to the Sinai covenant that was given only to Israel then it would seem that you would be keeping all of the 613 laws of that covenant that pertain to you personally. Are you really taking that position?
​

 

[Bob S]

(CLV) MarK 12: 28-34
28 And, approaching, one of the scribes, hearing them discussing, having perceived that He answered them ideally, inquires of Him, "What is the foremost precept of all? 29 Jesus answered him that "The foremost precept of all is: Hear, Israel! the Lord our God is one Lord." 30 And, You shall be loving the Lord God out of your whole heart, and out of your whole soul, and out of your whole comprehension, and out of your whole strength. This is the foremost precept."

Yahshua is quoting the Shema (That's in the law, for those who don't know):

(CLV) DT 6:4
4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One. 5 So you will love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity. 6 These words which I am instructing you today will come to be in your heart.

What is the love of YHWH?

What did YHWH say?

From the Decalogue
(CLV) Ex 20:6
yet showing benignity to thousands, to those loving Me and observing My instructions.

What did Daniel say?

(CLV) Dn 9:4
I prayed indeed to Yahweh my Eloah. I confessed and said intensely, Oh, Yahweh, the great and fear inspiring El, Keeper of the covenant and the benignity for those loving Him and keeping His instructions:

What did Nehemiah say?

(CLV) Ne 1:5
I said: Oh, Yahweh Elohim of the heavens, the great and fear-inspiring El, Who is keeping the covenant and the benignity with those loving Him and observing His instructions,

What did Yahshua say?


(CLV) Jn 7:16
Jesus, then, answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His Who sends Me.

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me, you will be keeping My precepts.

(CLV) Jn 14:21
He who has My precepts and is keeping them, he it is who is loving Me. Now he who is loving Me will be loved by My Father, and I shall be loving him and shall be disclosing Myself to him."

(CLV) Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and We shall be coming to him and making an abode with him.

(CLV) Jn 14:24
He who is not loving Me, is not keeping My words. And the word which you are hearing is not Mine, but the Father's Who sends Me.

(CLV) Jn 15:10
If ever you should be keeping My precepts, you will be remaining in My love, according as I have kept the precepts of My Father and am remaining in His love.



What did those who Yahshua taught say?

(CLV) 1Jn 2:4
He who is saying that "I know Him" and is not keeping His precepts, is a liar, and the truth of God is not in this one.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:2
In this we know that we are loving the children of God, whenever we may be loving God and may be doing His precepts.

(CLV) 1Jn 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we may be keeping His precepts. And His precepts are not heavy,

(CLV) 2Jn 1:6
And this is love, that we may be walking according to His precepts. This is the precept, according as you hear from the beginning, that you may be walking in it;

(CLV) Dt 30:16
If you should hearken to the instructions of Yahweh your Elohim that I am enjoining on you today, to love Yahweh your Elohim, to walk in His ways and to observe His instructions, His statutes and His ordinances, then you will live and multiply, and Yahweh your Elohim will bless you in the land where you are entering to tenant it.

Hi Hark, I am wondering why you didn't quote what the precepts are for Christians. Jesus in jn15 9-14 told us He kept the laws He was under and then asked us to keep the laws He revealed in those verses, love others like Jesus loves us. The next set of verses you left out verifies Jn 15 and we find them in 1Jn3: 19-24. They start out like this: 19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and goes on to explain what really is the TRUTH in verses 23-24. And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them.

"The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them." Does that verse need to be explained? Is Jesus God? A "yes" answers a lot of misunderstanding like the verses that tell us to keep the commandments of God. We are to keep the commandments of God the Son as He required in JN 15. Amen!

 

[HARK!]

Hi Hark, I am wondering why you didn't quote what the precepts are for Christians. Jesus in jn15 9-14 told us He kept the laws He was under and then asked us to keep the laws He revealed in those verses, love others like Jesus loves us.

Do you believe that is all there is to it? Do you believe that John is contradicting Yahshua? Don't forget the foremost precept.

The next set of verses you left out verifies Jn 15 and we find them in 1Jn3: 19-24. They start out like this: 19 This is how we know that we belong to the truth and goes on to explain what really is the TRUTH in verses 23-24. And this is his command

His command? Is there only one now? His who? In other words, who is he?

Let's read on.

to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ

It can't be Yahshua; because Yahshua is his son who come in his name. This would be Yahshua's father, Yah.

Joseph was instructed to name our Messiah, Yahshua, because he (Yah) will save (shua) his people.

and to love one another as he commanded us.

Who is one another? Do you think that excludes YHWH?

24 The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them.

We've established that this is YHWH.


Did you read verse 6?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:6
Everyone who is remaining in Him is not sinning. Everyone who is sinning sees Him not, neither knows Him.

Did you read verse 4?

(CLV) 1Jn 3:4
Everyone who is doing sin is doing lawlessness also, and sin is lawlessness.

"The one who keeps God’s commands lives in him, and he in them." Does that verse need to be explained?

I understand it just fine.


(CLV) Jn 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone should be loving Me, he will be keeping My word, and My Father will be loving him, and We shall be coming to him and making an abode with him.

(CLV) Jn 14:24
He who is not loving Me, is not keeping My words. And the word which you are hearing is not Mine, but the Father's Who sends Me.

Is Jesus God?

Again we have established that Yahshua was speaking his God's words.

(CLV) Jn 20:17
Jesus is saying to her, "Do not touch Me, for not as yet have I ascended to My Father. Now go to My brethren, and say to them that I said, `Lo! I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

A "yes" answers a lot of misunderstanding like the verses that tell us to keep the commandments of God. We are to keep the commandments of God the Son as He required in JN 15. Amen!

(CLV) Jn 7:16
Jesus, then, answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His Who sends Me.

(CLV) Jn 7:17
If anyone should be wanting to be doing His will, he will know concerning the teaching, whether it is of God or I am speaking from Myself.

 

[klutedavid]

Indeed - Jesus fulfilled the Law to "not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 perfectly.

He also fulfilled the Law to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:8 fulfilled perfectly.

He also perfectly fulfilled (complied with) the Law to "honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12.

Good thing "fulfill" does not mean "deleted"



Exactly! Because "fulfilled" does not mean "deleted". When it comes to legal/moral imperatives it means "complied with".

When it comes to predictive laws such as animal sacrifices - then as Heb 10:4-12 reminds us - it means that the prediction is fulfilled and the law making that prediction is fully satisfied - "taken away" as the text says regarding "animal sacrifice and offerings".

You deleted 600 laws and you want to keep ten laws?

There is a serious problem with your understanding of the revelation in the New Testament.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You deleted 600 laws and you want to keep ten laws? There is a serious problem with your understanding of the revelation in the New Testament.

There is no deleting. We are in the new covenant now not the old covenant. Many of the prophetic laws for remission of sins including the earthly Sanctuary laws, the laws for remission of sins and the sin offerings and animal sacrifices, the Levitical Priesthood and many of the Feasts days are now fulfilled pointing to Jesus as the promised Messiah and His role in the new covenant as our new Great High Priest ministering on our behalf in the Heavenly Sanctuary of which the earthly was only a copy that the Lord pitched and not man *Hebrews 8:1-6 (see also Hebrews 7:1-25; Hebrews 8:1-13; Hebrews 9:1-27 and Hebrews 10:1-22; John 1:29: John 1:36. These are all not fulfilled and continued in Christ in who they all pointed to. They were shadow laws of things to come that have come under Gods new covenant made on better promises. Of course this does not include God's 10 commandments that have the same role they always had and that is to give us the knowledge of good (moral right doing) and evil (moral wrong doing); sin (moral wrong doing) and righteousness (moral right doing) *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; Psalms 119:172. According to James if we break anyone of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *James 2:10-11. Of course this includes Gods' 4th commandment that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. There is not one scripture in all of the bible that says God's 4th commandment has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a holy day of rest. This is a man-made teaching and tradition that has led many away from God and His Word.

Take Care.

 

[BobRyan]

Indeed - Jesus fulfilled the Law to "not take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 perfectly.

He also fulfilled the Law to "Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:8 fulfilled perfectly.

He also perfectly fulfilled (complied with) the Law to "honor your father and mother" Ex 20:12.

Good thing "fulfill" does not mean "deleted"



Exactly! Because "fulfilled" does not mean "deleted". When it comes to legal/moral imperatives it means "complied with".

When it comes to predictive laws such as animal sacrifices - then as Heb 10:4-12 reminds us - it means that the prediction is fulfilled and the law making that prediction is fully satisfied - "taken away" as the text says regarding "animal sacrifice and offerings".

So then --- ignoring everything in that post - including the entire point made in that post... we get this...

You deleted 600 laws and you want to keep ten laws?

I am not in the business of deleting not even deleting the 1050 commands in the NT

1050 New Testament Commands vs 613 Old Testament Commands, which do we follow?.

We have already been over that detail a few dozen times.