No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

Brightfame52 · Thursday at 4:29 PM

Spiritual Jew said:
Please grow up. You are incredibly childish. Of course I'm not calling Him a liar. I'm saying that you do not understand what He said. You can't change the text from "all people" to something other than "all people". That makes YOU a liar. Instead, you need to determine what it means for Him to draw all people to Himself. I'm telling you what it means. I showed you an example of those who were drawn to Him, but instead of taking the next step and giving their lives to Him, they resist the Holy Spirit instead (Acts 7:51).

If Jesus said He would draw them unto Himself, they came and they were blessed Ps 65:4

4 Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

Brightfame52 · Thursday at 4:30 PM

Spiritual Jew said:
He said He would draw all people to Himself in John 12:32 and you are trying to change the text! Do you have no conscience? Why do you think you can get away with changing the text of God's word? Instead of foolishly and dishonestly changing the text to make it say what you want it to say, you need to take the time to determine what that means for Him to draw all people to Himself.

Tell me, how can a person who is not one of Christ's sheep resist the Holy Spirit if God supposedly doesn't call them to repentance and salvation as you believe?

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

He did draw people, what you think He meant frogs ? He drew all the people that He drew to himself, they became His followers, they were His Sheep

Spiritual Jew · Thursday at 5:18 PM

Brightfame52 said:
He did draw people, what you think He meant frogs ? He drew all the people that He drew to himself, they became His followers, they were His Sheep

You think just repeating the same thing over and over means anything? You are changing the text to fit your doctrine! Do you have no conscience about that? He said He will draw all people to Himself and you say "No, He does not draw all people to Himself". I will take His word over yours every time. Instead of trying to determine what He meant by that, you change the text to what you want Him to have said instead.

You didn't answer my question about Acts 7:51. Why not? Why are you not willing to address ALL scripture and just want to stick to your cherry picked scriptures that you manipulate to fit your doctrine instead?

Tell me, how can a person who is not one of Christ's sheep resist the Holy Spirit if God supposedly doesn't call them to repentance and salvation as you believe?

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

God commands all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), so why don't all people everywhere repent? The answer is clear if you're not blinded by Calvinist doctrine. It's because everyone has free will and can choose to repent or not. Everyone is capable of repenting or else God would not command everyone to repent. So, the reason some don't is because they choose not to and not because they are not able to do so, as you falsely believe.

Brightfame52 · Thursday at 6:19 PM

Spiritual Jew said:
You think just repeating the same thing over and over means anything? You are changing the text to fit your doctrine! Do you have no conscience about that? He said He will draw all people to Himself and you say "No, He does not draw all people to Himself". I will take His word over yours every time. Instead of trying to determine what He meant by that, you change the text to what you want Him to have said instead.

You didn't answer my question about Acts 7:51. Why not? Why are you not willing to address ALL scripture and just want to stick to your cherry picked scriptures that you manipulate to fit your doctrine instead?

Tell me, how can a person who is not one of Christ's sheep resist the Holy Spirit if God supposedly doesn't call them to repentance and salvation as you believe?

Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors: You always resist the Holy Spirit!

God commands all people everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), so why don't all people everywhere repent? The answer is clear if you're not blinded by Calvinist doctrine. It's because everyone has free will and can choose to repent or not. Everyone is capable of repenting or else God would not command everyone to repent. So, the reason some don't is because they choose not to and not because they are not able to do so, as you falsely believe.

He only draws His Sheep and they follow Him. Jesus being lifted up is the same as He laying down His Life. Now we just read in Jn 10 who He specifically layed down His Life for. Who does He say ? Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So understand, when He is speaking Jn 12:32 He is speaking as the Good Shepherd, so Who does He say He is specifically lifted up for as the Good Shepherd ?

bling · Thursday at 6:26 PM

d taylor said:
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Sure Jesus has knowledge of good and evil how can He not, but His knowledge did not come from Adam.

did Jesus have a sin nature since knowledge of Good and Evil= sin nature?

Spiritual Jew · Thursday at 6:27 PM

Brightfame52 said:
He only draws His Sheep and they follow Him. Jesus being lifted up is the same as He laying down His Life. Now we just read in Jn 10 who He specifically layed down His Life for. Who does He say ? Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

So understand, when He is speaking Jn 12:32 He is speaking as the Good Shepherd, so Who does He say He is specifically lifted up for as the Good Shepherd ?

John 12:32 says He draws "all people", not "all sheep". Obviously, the only ones who actually benefit from His sacrifice are those who accept Him and His sacrifice, which are the sheep. But, that doesn't mean He did not sacrifice Himself for all people to give all people the opportunity to be saved. You are blatantly twisting the text in John 12:32 to make it say what you want it to say and you have no conscience about doing that. It's pathetic.

Do you also deny that God wants all people to be saved, as written in 1 Timothy 2:3-6? Do you also deny that God commands all people everywhere to repent, as written in Acts 17:30? Do you also deny that Jesus died for the sins of all people in the whole world, as indicated in John 3:16 and 1 John 2:1-2? Which includes even the false teachers and prophets that Peter said deny the Lord who bought them (2 Peter 2:1)? Do you deny that God graciously offers salvation to all people, as indicated in Titus 2:11? Does "all people" ever actually mean "all people" to you? What scripture are you not willing to change to make it say what you want it to say?

Fervent · Thursday at 6:30 PM

Spiritual Jew said:
John 12:32 says He draws "all people", not "all sheep". Obviously, the only ones who actually benefit from His sacrifice are those who accept Him and His sacrifice, which are the sheep. But, that doesn't mean He did not sacrifice Himself for all people to give all people the opportunity to be saved. You are blatantly twisting the text in John 12:32 to make it say what you want it to say and you have no conscience about doing that. It's pathetic.

Do you also deny that God wants all people to be saved, as written in 1 Timothy 2:3-6? Do you also deny that God commands all people everywhere to repent, as written in Acts 17:30? Do you also deny that Jesus died for the sins of all people in the whole world, as indicated in John 3:16 and 1 John 2:1-2? Do you deny that God graciously offers salvation to all people, as indicated in Titus 2:11? Does "all people" ever actually mean "all people" to you? What scripture are you not willing to change to make it say what you want it to say?

I'm pretty sure there's an asterisk in most Calvinist Bibles on those kinds of verses that says "*restrictions apply"...you know, cause Jesus was a master of deceptive advertising and fine print restrictions.

bling · Thursday at 6:31 PM

Brightfame52 said:
You cant help it, you just cant comprehend, be like that sometimes. Its not Gods will for everyone to have understanding of spiritual matters, its just not given to them Lk 8

9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?

10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

Matt 13:11

He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

What human earthly objectives has the Spirit led you to realize?

d taylor · Thursday at 7:38 PM

bling said:
did Jesus have a sin nature since knowledge of Good and Evil= sin nature?

-

The ability to know good and evil did not come from the line of Adam, Jesus knowledge of good and evil came from God.

Just like Jesus did not have a biological earthly father, Jesus did not have the same ability to succumb to sins temptation like Adam did. I mean not only did He not do any physical sins, Jesus never even had any sins of the mind.

Mark Quayle · Thursday at 9:11 PM

d taylor said:
-

Well i will honor you with one more reply to this discussion and about your demon verse in James. Which by the way does not say the demons believe in Jesus for Eternal Life, the verse only states the demons believe God is one. Which is never mention in The Bible as something a person has to believe to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life. Now i am finished discussing this verse.

https://faithalone.org/blog/a-different-twist-on-james-219/

https://faithalone.org/grace-in-focus-articles/do-demons-really-believe/

https://faithalone.org/journal-articles/the-faith-of-demons/

https://faithalone.org/blog/scrambled-word-tests/

https://faithalone.org/blog/how-to-respond-to-a-works-salvation-friend/

WHAT in the world does demons believing or not believing in Jesus have to do with the argument? I didn't bring that up --you did. I brought up the difference between mere intellectual assent and salvific faith, and you want to make it sound like I'm talking about Demons. Wow.

d taylor · Thursday at 9:43 PM

Mark Quayle said:
WHAT in the world does demons believing or not believing in Jesus have to do with the argument? I didn't bring that up --you did. I brought up the difference between mere intellectual assent and salvific faith, and you want to make it sound like I'm talking about Demons. Wow.

-

What Type of Salvation Is James Talking About? – Grace Evangelical Society

What is sad is that you believe James is telling people what to do to be saved. If i am telling people how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, i would never use James. I would never use James is a discussion about Eternal Life salvation.

So with you bringing James into the discussion to begin with, says a lot about your view on Eternal Life salvation.

Mark Quayle · Thursday at 10:51 PM

d taylor said:
-

What Type of Salvation Is James Talking About? – Grace Evangelical Society

What is sad is that you believe James is telling people what to do to be saved. If i am telling people how to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life, i would never use James. I would never use James is a discussion about Eternal Life salvation.

So with you bringing James into the discussion to begin with, says a lot about your view on Eternal Life salvation.

Wrong again. I do NOT believe James is telling people what to do to be saved.

Curious, though. If James is truth, why not use it to tell the truth? Because you don't know how to do so without getting off topic? The Gospel is not just the basic black, red, white, gold pages. The more I learn about God the better I see the Gospel. When I talk to people about God, I use everything I can, and everything adds to the understanding. None of God's word will return to him void.

Brightfame52 · Friday at 3:21 AM

Spiritual Jew said:
John 12:32 says He draws "all people", not "all sheep". Obviously, the only ones who actually benefit from His sacrifice are those who accept Him and His sacrifice, which are the sheep. But, that doesn't mean He did not sacrifice Himself for all people to give all people the opportunity to be saved. You are blatantly twisting the text in John 12:32 to make it say what you want it to say and you have no conscience about doing that. It's pathetic.

Do you also deny that God wants all people to be saved, as written in 1 Timothy 2:3-6? Do you also deny that God commands all people everywhere to repent, as written in Acts 17:30? Do you also deny that Jesus died for the sins of all people in the whole world, as indicated in John 3:16 and 1 John 2:1-2? Which includes even the false teachers and prophets that Peter said deny the Lord who bought them (2 Peter 2:1)? Do you deny that God graciously offers salvation to all people, as indicated in Titus 2:11? Does "all people" ever actually mean "all people" to you? What scripture are you not willing to change to make it say what you want it to say?

He is speaking of His Sheep,I interpret scripture with scripture, so who did Jesus say He was dying for in Jn 10 Thats who He is dying for in Jn 12

Brightfame52 · Friday at 3:25 AM

bling said:
What human earthly objectives has the Spirit led you to realize?

Its not been given you to understand truth. I can explain, explain untill I'm Blue in the face, you wont understand it, its like talking to a corpse

Brightfame52 · Friday at 3:26 AM

bling said:
did Jesus have a sin nature since knowledge of Good and Evil= sin nature?

Does the bible say Jesus had a sin nature ?

David Lamb · Friday at 4:27 AM

ThatDumbChicken said:
Sure does take a lot of asterisks to believe in Calvinism.

whosoever*

*not really whosoever, just somesover

But it doesn't just say "whoever" or "whosoever". It says "whoever believes in Him."

d taylor · Friday at 6:53 AM

Mark Quayle said:
Wrong again. I do NOT believe James is telling people what to do to be saved.

Curious, though. If James is truth, why not use it to tell the truth? Because you don't know how to do so without getting off topic? The Gospel is not just the basic black, red, white, gold pages. The more I learn about God the better I see the Gospel. When I talk to people about God, I use everything I can, and everything adds to the understanding. None of God's word will return to him void.

-

Oh no you do not believe James addresses eternal life, but you sure drag it into a discussion about receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life by belief in Jesus.
Looks like you are still looking for the answer. I hope you find it, I suggest you read The Gospel of John until you understand its message.

And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

ThatDumbChicken · Friday at 8:06 AM

David Lamb said:
But it doesn't just say "whoever" or "whosoever". It says "whoever believes in Him."

Yup. But it doesn't say whosoever was chosen to believe in Him.

Brightfame52 · Friday at 8:31 AM

ThatDumbChicken said:
Yup. But it doesn't say whosoever was chosen to believe in Him.

But they were chosen to believe in Him, that's the only way we can believe in Him , to be one of His chosen Sheep Jn 10:26

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

bling · Friday at 8:53 AM

d taylor said:
-

The ability to know good and evil did not come from the line of Adam, Jesus knowledge of good and evil came from God.

Just like Jesus did not have a biological earthly father, Jesus did not have the same ability to succumb to sins temptation like Adam did. I mean not only did He not do any physical sins, Jesus never even had any sins of the mind.

You say: "Jesus did not have the same ability to succumb to sins temptation", so how could Jesus be tempted in every way as we are tempted?
The idea is not to give Jesus certain powers over sin, we cannot have, making it God's fault for our sinning, since God did not provide those powers to us, but show even though Christ could, He did not, just as we could, but did because we lack His Love.
What does it matter where the "knowledge of Good and Evil" came from, since it is being equated in your definition with a sinful nature?
I am saying our knowledge changed with Adam and Eve's eating the fruit, but our "nature" remained the same. "Knowledge", itself is not bad, since we agree Christ had that same knowledge and did not sin. It is wrong to blame our sins on "Knowledge" and call it our nature.

No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

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