Being embarrassed about Jesus?

Salvation is not a matter of attitude. It is a matter of trust. If you trusted in the gospel when you were a kid, it may be that you are a Christian now even if you have been taken in by various collegiate assertions that commonly undermine faith.

Many have gone to college and been made to feel ashamed of their faith. This is because those who attach themselves to college advocate a different religion, secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular). That these people are disconnected from God, the source of wisdom, can be seen by the lunitic ideas they often espouse.

Communism. Everyone can have everything all of the time for free. This sounds attractive, but one does not need to be a rocket scientists to calculate the impracticality.

Sexual profligacy. If it feels good, do it. This 1960s adage associated with the drug culture has ruined many lives as it's shortsightedness has often resulted in disease, addiction, and the loss of innocence that destroys relationships.

Diversity. The intentional acceptance of something in spite of one's reservations. This crippling of one's discernment can be seen as shooting oneself in the foot.

Transgenderism. This is perhaps the last straw of collegiate insanity. Affirming those in their delusion such that half will attempt suicide seems cruel.

It is no wonder that so many kids sent to college become ashamed of Christ. Often those so bullied in later years begin to question what they were assured was true in college. A couple of verses that may bear on this phenomena;

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Christian parents themselves were deceived to send their children to be bullied by the world when they were warned not to;

1Jn_2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Colleges have harnessed the power of social pressure. However, what they present as "truth" does not stand up to skeptical scrutiny. While not everyone has the capacity to push back against a bully, the bully should consider that he will pay a price.

Mat_18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

I would think we need to try to love God & our neighbor ( Matthew 22:36-40 etc,) and to want to see our neighbor saved as we hopefully ( 1 Corinthians 13:12-13) have been saved ( see the golden rule Matthew 7:12 in light of Matthew 7:1-12). We need to understand God’s love for us, his warning to us, but that there is always hope also ( see John 3:16-21).

When I was younger I was very passionate about YEC. I had been in serious deciet. Eventually that passion about YEC ballooned into all of the Gospel.
I think YEC is an essential to the Gospel. If you were sharing about YEC, you may've been tilling the ground for someone else to plant a seed w/ the Gospel or planting seeds yourself. Or have the passion about YEC balloon into a appreciation of the full Gospel. God is always working & he has called many laborers!

I did not know you had that background. It appears while you were very intersted in YEC, you weren't getting the rest of it.

We should not be surprised when many living in total sin come to the Lord with a full passion like your sisters. They have a unique testimony that someone who was saved much younger just doesn't have. God saves all kinds: those who were saved a lot younger & those who were saved later. One reason is b/c it is to show the power is not in human beings but him.

Sadly a lot of emphasis on evangelism has been lost in the name of unity. Evangelism is a primary mission of the church. It is great that you are questioning the need to evangelize. Our lives are a mission field. We don't have to go overseas or knock on doors to evangelize. God has so ordered our lives, evangelism opportunities will come, but we need to take advantage of them when they come. The lost aren't afraid of talking about their beliefs, we shouldn't be either.

Yes, I do think many people who call themselves Christians are in serious danger of going to hell. A lot of the time they are just checking a box they're a Christian. They believe a vague Jesus, that he loved people & we should do that too, & they went to church on Christmas, & that's more or less the extent of it. That's really believing yourself.

JohnClay said:

Also my sisters' pastor (or "prophet") says that most so-called Christians are going to hell, including his Christian grandmother:

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Why do Christians like to say that so much?

JohnClay said:

So what kind of attitude about talking to others about Jesus should a Christian have in order to be saved?
Also my sisters' pastor (or "prophet") says that most so-called Christians are going to hell, including his Christian grandmother:

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Want to support this belief, from The Bible. Because there is no requirement to talk to others about Jesus to be saved. So if your sister or friends or pastor believes this they have a great misunderstanding about receiving God's free gift of Eternal Life.
The only condition God has given humanity to receive God's free gift of Eternal Life and become a permanent born again child of God is to believe in Jesus.

It is only by belief in Jesus, a person receives God's free gift of Eternal Life salvation. What is believing in Jesus, it is to believe Jesus is who He says He is. The Son of God/The promised Messiah, the resurrection and the life.

If a person wants God's free gift of Eternal life they will believe Jesus is The Son of God/The promised Messiah, the resurrection and the life. Then can believe in Jesus for Eternal Life, because Jesus is Eternal Life, so if a person wants Eternal Life they must believe in the only Person who is Eternal Life.

In other words if you want Eternal life and to be resurrected to Eternal Life, you must believe in the only person who has defeated death and has been resurrected.

I can't for the life of me figure out what you're asking here you jump around so much. I don't think there's some formula of what a Christian will concern themselves with, but there is a distinct difference between being culturally/nominally Christian and being a disciple of Christ. A disciplie of Christ is going to want to live their whole life in a way that testifies to their faith, not simply in preaching but in conduct as well. There isn't a need to force conversations because it will simply come out naturally at some point.

timf said:

Communism. Everyone can have everything all of the time for free. This sounds attractive, but one does not need to be a rocket scientists to calculate the impracticality.

Sexual profligacy. If it feels good, do it. This 1960s adage associated with the drug culture has ruined many lives as it's shortsightedness has often resulted in disease, addiction, and the loss of innocence that destroys relationships.

Diversity. The intentional acceptance of something in spite of one's reservations. This crippling of one's discernment can be seen as shooting oneself in the foot.

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Rather divorced from reality much?

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Since a Christian is "sealed" with the Holy Spirit, it maybe that a child who trusts in the gospel and becomes a Christian could in later life repudiate his faith, but still be saved.

In considering biblical events, one useful thing to keep in mind is asking oneself what would be impossible for an all powerful God. Dismissing things that are unnatural (i.e. resurrection, virgin birth, etc.) is understandable except for the actions of a creator who is supernatural.

JohnClay said:

BTW I was wondering if you think that you need to believe Jesus was literally raised from the dead to be saved... ?
I currently don't believe in Jesus literally rising from the dead or the Virgin birth.
The pastor Martin Luther King Jr also believed in this:

The Truth Behind MLK's Social Gospel | G3 Ministries

While King skillfully used Christian rhetoric to champion civil rights, he also wholeheartedly embraced the contrasting heterodox ideas of the social gospel.

g3min.org

So did the late Bishop Shelby Spong

John Shelby Spong - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

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Of course one must believe that Jesus rose from the dead. Who would we count on for salvation, to hear our prayers, to hear in order to follow, to obey unto holiness, to be sealed and filled by His Own Holy Spirit for eternity... another bit of dust in the ground like every other human?

Either Jesus is exactly Who He and the Father say He is - The Way, The Truth, and The Life and God Himself - or His *followers* are the most wretched of all men.

My advise, John? Quit toying around and make a commitment. Your intellect will never be satisfied if you presume to judge God - and reject His requirement of faith. Read the Gospel of John and make a decision if Jesus - and His promises - are worthy of your faith.

Eternity hangs in the balance, and tomorrow is not guaranteed, friend.

God bless!

Romans 10:8-11
"But what does it say? “The Word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.”

JohnClay said:

BTW I was wondering if you think that you need to believe Jesus was literally raised from the dead to be saved... ?

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I don't pretend to know what the requirements of salvation are. I believe there's a decent chance that believing in the resurrection is a requirement, and I believe that the resurrection is the best explanation for the rise of that belief to such an extent that those who made the claim initially were willing to go to great lengths to maintain it with no apparent benefit to themselves. But my concern is not to divide the saved from the unsaved, but to share with the world my reason for hope. The promise of Jesus is so much more than just a ticket to heaven, He is the portion of the righteous and eternal life.

JohnClay said:

I currently don't believe in Jesus literally rising from the dead or the Virgin birth.
The pastor Martin Luther King Jr also believed in this:

The Truth Behind MLK's Social Gospel | G3 Ministries

While King skillfully used Christian rhetoric to champion civil rights, he also wholeheartedly embraced the contrasting heterodox ideas of the social gospel.

g3min.org

So did the late Bishop Shelby Spong

John Shelby Spong - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Click to expand...

Spong I believe gave explicit statements along the lines of what you are saying, but I have doubts about whether it is an accurate representation of MLK's beliefs rather than an attempt to hijack a promnent figure for polemical purposes. Doubting as much is somewhat understandable, given the strength of inductive inference to the contrary. But it is difficult to see how one could properly qualify as a Christian and reject it, considering Paul's words on the matter at the very least.

JohnClay said:

Luke 9:26 / Mark 8:38

If a person is a proper Christian does that mean they're so happy and grateful that they're saved that they want to tell the world about it and save souls, etc? I used to be a young earth creationist (YEC) until I started university (and went straight to atheism like in this Old-Earth Creationism "tract") but I just wanted to spread the word about YEC and not about Jesus. I went to a Lutheran high school but the year level I was in mostly didn't sing in chapel at all (I can't remember if I did). I think the two other smartest kids in the year level were atheists.
Note my youngest sister's favourite TV show in high school was Sex and the City (where the 4 women have sex with lots of men) but she eventually became a hard core Christian and wrote 5 Christian books
(can be downloaded here - except for Heart of the Father 2)

Devotionals – Knowing God

knowinggod.life

So what kind of attitude about talking to others about Jesus should a Christian have in order to be saved?
Also my sisters' pastor (or "prophet") says that most so-called Christians are going to hell, including his Christian grandmother:

Maybe that's why my sisters would think they're very fortunate to be saved (compared to if large numbers of people were saved)
Matthew 7:13-14

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Sadly John, most people who are raised going to church, and that included myself, do not have a clue what Christianity is about.
Jesus summed it up in only a few verses.
Matthew 22:37-40; John 17:3; John 4:23, 24

In those three texts... and this is not to say that's all that is required... Jesus basically says, one needs to

• get to know God, and Jesus, and
• get to know the truth about the father, so that
• one can then love God first and foremost, because it is impossible to worship God without the truth.

In other words, John, there are billions of people entering a church every week, who think they know Christianity, but they do not even know God, or the truth about God, and so, their worship is unacceptable to God.

The reason Jesus' followers obeyed him in preaching the good news, is because they recognized that Jesus was God's son who was seeing after the father's will, and they wanted a part in it. Matthew 4:19, 20; Matthew 9:37, 38; Matthew 28:18-20; John 5:39-43; John 8:42; John 14:15; 1 John 5:3
What is God's will? 1 Timothy 2:3, 4

No matter how much we try to accomplish, if we haven't come to know God, and the truth about him, so as to develop a real love for him, we are as Paul said, 'striking the air'.
These requirements are really important.
Notice how Hebrews 11:6 puts it...

Knowledge of God, and truth about him is vital. We cannot truly love someone we do not know, and it takes time to do so, doesn't it.
If I asked you, did you know God, and love him, could you say yes?

JohnClay said:

I believe in a non-obvious intelligent force. All I know is that I think it exists. 2 Corinthians 11:14 says that Satan can appear to be an angel of light so any information you get from a supernatural being could be deception. Like "God" in Futurama said "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all".
I believe I can be playing hide and seek with God. I don't really love him very strongly.

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That's a great episode, though not sure how sound that theology is. But if there is a non-obvious intelligent force as the explanation of human life, wouldn't it make sense that that force would seek some sort of connection with it's creations? And what better way to make a connection than to express it's identity in human form with a human personality? Of course you don't love your image of God very strongly, he's basically a benevolent stranger at best. You don't really present anything that you'd be able to sink your teeth into to know Him, so how could you love Him?

JohnClay said:

But how do people know it is directly from God when there are so many contradictory messages?

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I suppose it might help if He did something out of the ordinary, well beyond everyday human experience. Like being resurrected from the dead.

I've never understood the whole "Well, there are a lot of messages that contradict each other!" argument...like, sure, there have been a lot of different ideas but when we boil it down the claims are fairly limited, and only a handful involve historical claims. Most religions are either philosophical in nature, or speak of out-of-time characters. The historical ones are much rarer, and we can eliminate ones like Islam because even by their own admission Muhammad was just a guy with nothing really exceptional about him other than his military prowess. But how many human beings that lived largely mundane lives and died in ignomious fashion are we still talking about today? Just gotta wonder, how did He gain such a following from the grave?

JohnClay said:

But why did Martin Luther King Jr (a famous pastor) and Bishop Shelby Spong not believe in a physical resurrection? Was it because they thought it seemed more likely that it didn't happen? Or were they tricked by Satan or something? It would have been easier for them to just go along with the belief in the resurrection.

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I'm sure they believed a lot of things, but I'm not sure why their opinion holds extra weight on the matter since they don't seem to have a vantage point that would grant them unusual insight into the matter.

JohnClay said:

If there are any genuine contradictions then at least one of them must be wrong.

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Well, yes. But that doesn't mean that any particular one has an increased likelihood of being wrong.

JohnClay said:

A think a key reason is it promises to give you an eternity in paradise and save you from an eternity in agony. I think that's why people were happy to face lions in arenas.

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You think the original followers would have been willing to sacrifice their lives and livelihood for thin promises about the hereafter? That explanation doesn't seem to deal with the weight of the offense crucifixion carried in the ancient world or the lengths that the original Christians went to to maintain the claim. It appears to be a wholly anachronistic explanation built around the relative comfort of being a Christian in the European/United States world. Especially since those people would have been in the best position to know whether it was true or not, and the promise is rather worthless if you know its built on a falsehood.