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Nope, i believe they were saved for trusting in the promises Jesus fulfilled. As Jesus said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad."(John 8:56 ESV)
But that doesn’t deal with Adam till Abraham, what about them, they did not have that .
If preceding Jesus temporally is irrelevant, why would preceding Abrahm temporally matter? Jesus is the lamb slain from the foundation of the Earth, your objection is moot.
No where in scripture does it say that there is salvation post mortem. What scripture does say in droves is that faith is necessary for salvation and every one of those verses are directed strictly to the living.
Once again, if universalism is true then why did God sent His Son to die for our sins? Certainly God is powerful enough to save everyone without the sacrifice, right?
Can you show me in scripture that those from Adam till Abraham even had any idea about Jesus, even those under the old covenant had no idea of Jesus and what he was truly about, if they did they would have celebrated his incarnation and not killed him.
The idea that those who will have faith only in the mortal body is what scripture is talking about, does not add up to the big picture that scripture is painting. There are to many scriptures that either directly or indirectly say that all will be saved to just ignore or not to deal with at all.
My friend. We have covered all of what you posted many times before. An opinion is not evidence. But I’ll tell you this, by doubting God’s plan you are in fact judging God and His awesome plan. Follow the scriptures not your opinion. God bless you.
I am always amazed at the amount of times I have seen/heard this exact reply proposed against UR. It really blows my mind! You might just as well say if no one suffers eternal torment then the sacrifice of The Christ is meaningless. The absurdity of your question is put to rest by any number of Scriptures. You know them, so pick one and answer your own question from the Sacred Text.
My brother, all those who hold to UR do so because we believe the sacrifice of our Lord Jesus is not just sufficient for ALL but in fact efficacious for ALL; regardless of which age man lives or dies. Like my brother Jeff has stated before, we just view the Scriptures through a different lens. Jeff and I may not agree on everything pertaining to UR but we do agree on this: LOVE (JESUS). NEVER. FAILS!
And yet you did not address the question. Typical
Love never fails indeed. So why would Jesus force anyone that hates Him to spend eternity with Him?
blessings to you too.
Hebrews 11.
Equating the remnant of Israel with the wicked shepherds is a rather strange twist. Those who were responsible for Jesus death are the "not all Israel is Israel" that Paul spoke of.
Damnationists generally don't seem to think so. They appear to think hell was always there somehow and God had nothing to do with it.
It isn't my assertion, it's what damnationists , a group I am in no way a part of, believe that is how God has designed thr universe, The fact that such a belief portrays God as a pitiless monster beyond any human comparison doesn't move them in the least. .
I have neither the need nor the desire
Of course I answered the question. I merely gave you the opportunity to answer it for yourself since you already know the answer.
He doesn’t … Were you not once an enemy of God? Did you not hate God? If you are in agreement with the Scripture your answer will be yes to both questions. One more question. Is your love for God driven by fear, which would make it no love at all, or is your love for Him birthed out of His love for you? I trust it is from the latter of the two. Thus, I believe it will be for all men when they are confronted with pure divine love. This pure divine love is what will cause every knee to bow and every tongue confess.
I had in mind a simpler passage.
Yep. And now I believe and By the grace of God through faith I’m one of His flock.
I have never feared God an all. My faith comes from His grace which is the greatest gift of all.
Jesus love never fails indeed.
Here is the question you proposed:I had in mind a simpler passage.
““For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. The one who believes in Him is not judged; the one who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”
John 3:16-18 NASB2020
John 3:16-18 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but | New American Standard Bible - NASB
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, butbible.com
The question is not hard to answer but it destroys your philosophy. There is no need for a sacrifice if one is not needed.
I do not understand why you keep saying these are my opinion, this is the teaching of a good part of the early church.
Hebrews 11 says its appointed for man to die once and then the judgement, western Christians think this is heaven or "eternal Hell" , but the judgement is not that, the judgement is did you follow Jesus while in the temporary mortal body or not. If yes then to God you go, if no to the refinement you go,kolasis aionios , Gods judgement is for refinement not eternal punishment.
I answered your question in the post you quoted. The answer is there is no need for a sacrifice if none is needed.
I have no problem with the different beliefs that some in the early church believed and tried to formalize into mainstream church teaching. Most of those were addressed and rejected in the councils just as universalism was.
Interesting that you qualify your statement with “if you have the right understanding”. What you propose is not the mainstream or common understanding. You have to manipulate scripture to justify your belief. Your understanding of aionios is a perfect example. If aionios is defined as “for an age” then eternal life in John 3:16 would also be “for an age” rather than eternal. I’m sure that salvation is forever.
This makes no sense to me … sorry. That is why I have asked you to explain your statement. If you are unable to articulate how you arrive at your position I suggest you take more time and give more thought to how you arrive at this conclusion. Otherwise, just tell me you don’t want to be bothered. Basically all you have done is provide a thesis statement and developed no thought to support that statement.
