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Noah's Ark

Lost4words

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Firstly, the Ark was real as everybody knows i have written proof from 2 of my ancestors who were on it!!

Secondly, God created ALL...He didnt need to make species evolve as some believe they did like Darwin...

We are made in the image of God. We didnt evolve from apes....

There are no fossils that show us evolving...

The great flood happened. There is evidence for it....
 
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David Lamb

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Was Jacob aware of the Genesis Creation story?
He was probably aware of what would later be recorded in Genesis as the account of God's Creation, but for the obvious reason that it wasn't yet in existence he would not have known the actual Genesis account.
 
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AV1611VET

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Was Jacob aware of the Genesis Creation story?

I have no doubt whatsoever he was.

I'm sure he carried his Bible with him at all times.
 
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AV1611VET

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He was probably aware of what would later be recorded in Genesis as the account of God's Creation, but for the obvious reason that it wasn't yet in existence he would not have known the actual Genesis account.

What was this then?

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
 
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David Lamb

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What was this then?

Genesis 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
That describes the book. It doesn't mean that the book was written while Adam was still alive. Moses wrote Genesis.
 
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AV1611VET

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But Jacob lived before Genesis was actually written.
That describes the book. It doesn't mean that the book was written while Adam was still alive. Moses wrote Genesis.

I subscribe to the Wiseman Hypothesis:

The Wiseman hypothesis, sometimes called the tablet theory, is a theory of the authorship and composition of the Book of Genesis which suggests that Moses compiled Genesis from tablets handed down through Abraham and the other patriarchs.

Wiseman hypothesis
 
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David Lamb

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I subscribe to the Wiseman Hypothesis:

The Wiseman hypothesis, sometimes called the tablet theory, is a theory of the authorship and composition of the Book of Genesis which suggests that Moses compiled Genesis from tablets handed down through Abraham and the other patriarchs.

Wiseman hypothesis
I haven't heard of the Wiseman hypothesis. I would say only that Jesus referred to the Old Testament as "Moses and the prophets." For example:

“"But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’"” (Lu 16:31 NKJV)
 
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AACJ

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I do not make a habit of siding with atheists, but when they are right one has little choice, doesn't one?

You will have to do a lot better than quibble over terminology to win any converts to YEC.
Terminology is important. One reason for this is the common propensity of many to try to win their argument or position largely by redefining terms--to suit their arguing points. David Hume is a great example of this concerning the topic of miracles.
 
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Fervent

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Terminology is important. One reason for this is the common propensity of many to try to win their argument or position largely by redefining terms--to suit their arguing points. David Hume is a great example of this concerning the topic of miracles.
Yep...another one(and far more frequent in discussions with atheists today) is the way supernatural is defined(or perhaps more accurately, not defined)
 
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AACJ

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Nye’s critique of the biblical Flood account is flawed due to the fact that it dismisses both divine intervention and sound research by creationists. The fossil layers in the Grand Canyon comport with hydrodynamic sorting during a global flood (Snelling, 2009), not with slow sedimentation. Many young-earth creationist scientists believe in a post-flood ice age as part of their geological and climatic model. Nye's objection about kangaroo migration ignores that a post-flood Ice Age could have created temporary land bridges that are now submerged (Oard, 2004). Also, ancient shipbuilding techniques (like the sewn boats of Kerala) and God's design (Genesis 6:14-16) make Noah’s Ark feasible, unlike the ill-fated Wyoming, which lacked God’s guidance (Woodmorappe, 1996). And of course Nye’s naturalistic assumptions contribute to his deficient evaluation of the biblical model.

References:

Snelling, A. A. (2009). Earth’s Catastrophic Past. Institute for Creation Research.
Oard, M. J. (2004). The Frozen Record. ICR.
Woodmorappe, J. (1996). Noah’s Ark: A Feasibility Study. ICR.
Here's a groovy video I found that talks about Noah's Ark, which happens to be my minor forté.

So I though I'd post it and then pick it apart over time; but not necessarily in chronological order.


The first thing I would like to point out is that Noah's Ark is not a boat, it is an ark.

A containment vessel.

Calling it a boat or a ship shows a disrespect for its true identity.

More later.
 
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AACJ

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Yes, the flood story was part of the ancient Hebrew mythos.

Perhaps you should try to learn why we know that there never was a worldwide flood. There was a very severe local flood in the Tigris and Euphrates valleys that may have started the flood story, but at not point was mankind threatened by such a flood:

Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth | NCSE
The global Flood is supported by geological evidence, such as continent-spanning sedimentary layers and marine fossils on mountains. Ancient flood myths found worldwide--from Mesopotamia to the Americas--serve to corroborate Genesis as a real event, not just a myth.
 
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Gene2memE

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Ancient flood myths found worldwide--from Mesopotamia to the Americas--serve to corroborate Genesis as a real event, not just a myth.

Ancient dragon myths found worldwide - from Mesopotamia to the Americas- serve to corroborate Beowulf as a real event, not just a myth.

Ancient tiny people myths found worldwide - from Australia to Ireland - server to corroborate Gulliver's Travels as a real event, not just a story.

Ancient sun myths found worldwide - from Egypt to Mesoamerica - serve to corroborate that Unkulunkulu is a star being and the ancestor and creator of the Zulu people.
 
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AACJ

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Ancient dragon myths found worldwide - from Mesopotamia to the Americas- serve to corroborate Beowulf as a real event, not just a myth.

Ancient tiny people myths found worldwide - from Australia to Ireland - server to corroborate Gulliver's Travels as a real event, not just a story.

Ancient sun myths found worldwide - from Egypt to Mesoamerica - serve to corroborate that Unkulunkulu is a star being and the ancestor and creator of the Zulu people.
Of course your analogy fails because it conflates universal flood accounts [(which align with geological evidence like continent-spanning sedimentary layers and marine fossils on mountains (Geisler, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist)] with disparate mythological tropes. Flood narratives (e.g., Mesopotamian, Native American) share specific details with Genesis (global deluge, survival via vessel, and divine judgment), unlike dragon or sun myths, which lack such consistency and empirical corroboration. As William Craig notes in his work, A Reasonable Response, the Flood's geological and cross-cultural evidence meets historiographical criteria for establishing reliability. In contrast, isolated myths do not. The Flood's unique convergence of literary and scientific evidence distinguishes it from the arbitrary folklore that you have referenced.

References

Norman Geisler, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist

Snelling, A. A., Earth’s Catastrophic Past: Geology, Creation & the Flood. Institute for Creation Research.

William Lane Craig, A Reasonable Response.
 
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Gene2memE

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Of course your analogy fails because it conflates universal flood accounts [(which align with geological evidence like continent-spanning sedimentary layers and marine fossils on mountains (Geisler, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist)] with disparate mythological tropes. Flood narratives (e.g., Mesopotamian, Native American) share specific details with Genesis (global deluge, survival via vessel, and divine judgment), unlike dragon or sun myths, which lack such consistency and empirical corroboration. As William Craig notes in his work, A Reasonable Response, the Flood's geological and cross-cultural evidence meets historiographical criteria for establishing reliability.

Nah, there's plenty of corroboration of dragon and sun god accounts. Otherwise, why would there be fossils of giant creatures buried in the ground? Or historical stories of people battling giant reptiles? Or Christian saints who famously slew them? Not to mention the hundreds of sun deities attested to at religious sites dotted across the globe?

Besides, the Genesis account is consistent with dragons. At least that's what creationists argue. You can find the argument that dinosaurs breathed fire and were actually dragons in:

Gish (Dinosaurs, Those Terrible Lizards, 1977), Henry Morris (The Biblical Basis for Modern Science, 1984), Baugh (Dinosaur: Scientific Evidence That Dinosaurs and Men Walked Together, 1987), Apologetics Press (Discover Magazine, July 2007), Isaacs (Dragons or Dinosaurs? Creation or Evolution?, 2010) James Gilmer (100 Year Cover-up Revealed. We Lived with Dinosaurs, 2011), BJU Press (Life Science, Batdorf and Porch 2013 3rd Ed. Lacy 2013, 4th ed.), Creation Research Society/Creation Worldview Ministries (McMurtry, 2020).

And literally dozens of others, if you have the time and inclination to do the research.

Here's a pretty typical write-up, from Apologetics Press (Discover Magazine, July 2007):

" There are three reasons the creationist should have no problem believing in the possibility of an animal breathing fire. First, an all-knowing, all-powerful God who created the Universe out of nothing and life from non-life would have no problem making an animal that could breathe fire. Second, God created many creatures with remarkable qualities, including the electric eel and the bombardier beetle (which can shoot a harmful, boiling-hot spray out of its backend). Couldn’t God have made a fire-breathing animal, too? Third, God said in Job 41 that, indeed, He did create a fire-breathing animal. The animal called leviathan could shoot sparks of fire from its mouth and cause smoke to go out of its nostrils (Job 41:18-21).
Those who say that no animal could ever breathe fire fail to recognize the truthfulness of the Bible and the awesomeness of God. “Is anything too hard for the Lord?” (Genesis 18:14)."
Here's the summary from another (McMurtry, 2020 - The existence of fire breathing dragons):
"Were fire breathing dinosaurs created by God during the creation week? Did man and this kind of dinosaur exist at the same time? Could the stories of men fighting fire breathing dragons to rescue fair maidens be true?
Yes, on all counts."

Here's two professional creationists spending 40 minutes arguing Leviathan was a "fire-breathing dragon"

You want to argue that dragons were mythical, then sort out your own house first. You could start with all the references in the Old Testament.

In contrast, isolated myths do not. The Flood's unique convergence of literary and scientific evidence distinguishes it from the arbitrary folklore that you have referenced.

It doesn't. There is no evidence consistent with a global flood.

Your "continent-spanning sedimentary layers" don't exist. The very large sedimentary layers that do exist are regional only in nature, were laid down over millions of years, don't show the types of inclusions typical of flood layers, and are generally very, very old (in the 10s to 100s of million of years).

Marine fossils on mountains are much more parsimoniously explained by geological uplift, than a catastrophic global deluge and mass extinction that somehow fails to leave a trace in the geological and fossil records.

Not to mention that if it happened any time since the onset of the Holocene then there are dozens of cultures in vastly different parts of the globe that lived through it without apparently noticing or changing. The archaeological record shows no simultaneous cultural disjuncture.
 
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dlamberth

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The global Flood is supported by geological evidence, such as continent-spanning sedimentary layers and marine fossils on mountains. Ancient flood myths found worldwide--from Mesopotamia to the Americas--serve to corroborate Genesis as a real event, not just a myth.
Nope. None of that is true at all, including the Genesis account. Everything you brought up is explained by the geology and movement of the Earth over long periods of time. The Earth tells the story very clearly that there is no evidence of a a Biblical flood.
 
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Fervent

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Nye’s critique of the biblical Flood account is flawed due to the fact that it dismisses both divine intervention and sound research by creationists. The fossil layers in the Grand Canyon comport with hydrodynamic sorting during a global flood (Snelling, 2009), not with slow sedimentation. Many young-earth creationist scientists believe in a post-flood ice age as part of their geological and climatic model. Nye's objection about kangaroo migration ignores that a post-flood Ice Age could have created temporary land bridges that are now submerged (Oard, 2004). Also, ancient shipbuilding techniques (like the sewn boats of Kerala) and God's design (Genesis 6:14-16) make Noah’s Ark feasible, unlike the ill-fated Wyoming, which lacked God’s guidance (Woodmorappe, 1996). And of course Nye’s naturalistic assumptions contribute to his deficient evaluation of the biblical model.

References:

Snelling, A. A. (2009). Earth’s Catastrophic Past. Institute for Creation Research.
Oard, M. J. (2004). The Frozen Record. ICR.
Woodmorappe, J. (1996). Noah’s Ark: A Feasibility Study. ICR.
One of the major issues with Creation "science" is that it puts the cart before the horse by starting with a theory and then trying to fit the evidence to that theory, rather than engaging in the recursive process that science involves. Nye's critique is misguided not because any sort of missed evidence, but because he doesn't deal with the principal issue of the procedural malfeasance that is involved in this approach. It's one thing to believe the literal account of the Bible as a faith-based belief and disregard the academic approach to science, another thing entirely to engage in the sort of duplicitous cherry picking that plagues Creation "science".
 
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AV1611VET

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The Earth tells the story very clearly that there is no evidence of a a Biblical flood.

According to the earth, what happened to that evidence?
 
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