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Iran Erupts: Crowds Burn US Flags and Swear to Ayatollah

BCP1928

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Yeah and Hitler thought the same way, so did Mao and Stalin. Gee there is just no way at all to tell who's got the right cause and who doesn't. We all have the right cause and if you rape and murder a woman you probably have rhe right cause too. Cause its all even right?
You need to understand your enemy if you want to defeat him. If you impute his motives to him instead of finding out what they really are you will not understand him and will have a harder time defeating him.
 
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seeking.IAM

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Sounds like someone doesn’t know history and can’t tell the difference between a righteous cause and an evil one

I have been to Hiroshima. You will never sell me that there was something righteous about that.
 
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trophy33

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Did Gabbard say there was no reason to hit the Iranian nuke sites? I dont remember her saying that.
I do not think she was asked this question. Did any US intelligence say it is needed to strike, since then?
 
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trophy33

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I cant really argue with this. This is why Trump is not the same as Bush or Obama...

But this isnt Iraq. This is Iran and its a targeted hit on the nuclear sites. This isnt going into Iraq with the military and defeating the army and trying to set up.a new regime. Trump has said iver and over again hes not for that.
Trump first said he would go to Iraq, after it failed he said it was a bad idea.

Regarding Iran, he said:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
ANY RETALIATION BY IRAN AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WILL BE MET WITH FORCE FAR GREATER THAN WHAT WAS WITNESSED TONIGHT. THANK YOU! DONALD J. TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES


In other words, Trump is for peace only if nobody returns his attacks. Sure, that is an easy peace. If some country thinks about defending itself, then Trump is not for peace anymore and will attack as long as the other country is not beaten down.


Another thing regarding Iran:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
It’s not politically correct to use the term, “Regime Change,” but if the current Iranian Regime is unable to MAKE IRAN GREAT AGAIN, why wouldn’t there be a Regime change??? MIGA!!!


So, it is not about few bombs and never anything more. It is "why not" about Iraq-like goal.
 
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Hazelelponi

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Trump first said he would go to Iraq, after it failed he said it was a bad idea.

Regarding Iran, he said:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
ANY RETALIATION BY IRAN AGAINST THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WILL BE MET WITH FORCE FAR GREATER THAN WHAT WAS WITNESSED TONIGHT. THANK YOU! DONALD J. TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES


In other words, Trump is for peace only if nobody returns his attacks. Sure, that is an easy peace. If some country thinks about defending itself, then Trump is not for peace anymore and will attack as long as the other country is not beaten down.


Another thing regarding Iran:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
It’s not politically correct to use the term, “Regime Change,” but if the current Iranian Regime is unable to MAKE IRAN GREAT AGAIN, why wouldn’t there be a Regime change??? MIGA!!!


So, it is not about few bombs and never anything more. It is "why not" about Iraq-like goal.

We are now in a ceasefire. Are you upset about that?

It's a question, there seems some level of irritation that Trump's tactics were successful at ending the war and defeating our enemies nuclear weapons ambition.
 
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Hazelelponi

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I have been to Hiroshima. You will never sell me that there was something righteous about that.

It prevented any more death. WW2 was the deadliest war in human history where between 70 and 85 million people lost their lives.

Killing 140,000 people to put a final end to that? Most considered to be worth it at the time.

I'm sure they could have waited for another 70 million to die... but how would that benefit again?

To be clear, adjusted for modern population WW2 would be equivalent to 250 to 300 million people dying in a single war today.

If 300 million people were dead in war wouldn't you want to end it, if it was occuring today? Even by any means necessary?

I can't even imagine how heartsick that much death would make people, let alone what people might entertain to stop it.

I don't think ending the world war with the greatest amount of deaths in all human history is at all cause to say a bunch of genocidal racists should be allowed to have nuclear weapons so they can wipe Israel off the map, and poison their neighbors too.

There's really no comparison. Why really does matter, apples are not oranges, and the US is on Irans target list too, not only Israel. In fact, there's no one a nuclear armed Iran would not be a threat to.
 
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Bradskii

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We are now in a ceasefire. Are you upset about that?
Mm. Lasted less than 3 hours. From here: Israel-Iran war live: Israel defence minister says he has ordered attack on Iran after claiming Tehran has violated ceasefire

'Katz (Israeli Defence Minister) said the military had now been instructed to carry out high-intensity operations against targets in Tehran. Less than three hours earlier, US president Donald Trump had said that the ceasefire was now in effect.'

Has to be some sort of record, surely...
 
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Hazelelponi

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Mm. Lasted less than 3 hours. From here: Israel-Iran war live: Israel defence minister says he has ordered attack on Iran after claiming Tehran has violated ceasefire

'Katz (Israeli Defence Minister) said the military had now been instructed to carry out high-intensity operations against targets in Tehran. Less than three hours earlier, US president Donald Trump had said that the ceasefire was now in effect.'

Has to be some sort of record, surely...

Yeah I'm just seeing that.

Apparently Iran broke the deal and Israel is back to bombing Tehran.

Sigh. I don't know why we can't just have peace. One would think just living would be cool, and letting ones neighbors do so too.

It's just not complicated.
 
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Nithavela

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Yeah I'm just seeing that.

Apparently Iran broke the deal and Israel is back to bombing Tehran.

Sigh. I don't know why we can't just have peace. One would think just living would be cool, and letting ones neighbors do so too.

It's just not complicated.
Everyone wants peace, but first the enemy has to be defeated.
 
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Bradskii

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Apparently Iran broke the deal and Israel is back to bombing Tehran.
Apparently Israel claimed that Iran broke the deal. I wouldn't trust Netanyahu further than I could throw him. A man who has troops mowing down people waiting for aid trucks in Gaza. From the same link I gave earlier:

'The military says it has fired warning shots at people it said approached its forces in a suspicious manner.'

A suspicious manner? These people are starving. Warning shots? 25 killed, 146 wounded. That's quite a warning. The guy is a war criminal. He will pay for what he has done and what he is doing.
 
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trophy33

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We are now in a ceasefire. Are you upset about that?

It's a question, there seems some level of irritation that Trump's tactics were successful at ending the war and defeating our enemies nuclear weapons ambition.
Why should I be upset about ceasefire? It would only prove that Iran is not some fanatical country that goes into "all-in" war, but acts quite rationally (and so it would debunk the need for an immediate strike in the first place).

If Iran did not keep ceasefire and retaliated against the US, Trump would go to war. And he would probably blame Biden for that. And MAGA would probably still cheer it.
 
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trophy33

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Sigh. I don't know why we can't just have peace.
Because you do not respect the sovereignty of other countries (if they are significantly weaker than you), the UN or the international law.

Or even treaties for that matter.

All that matters to the US foreign politics seems to be who is your president a friend with.
 
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Nithavela

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Apparently Israel claimed that Iran broke the deal. I wouldn't trust Netanyahu further than I could throw him. A man who has troops mowing down people waiting for aid trucks in Gaza. From the same link I gave earlier:

'The military says it has fired warning shots at people it said approached its forces in a suspicious manner.'

A suspicious manner? These people are starving. Warning shots? 25 killed, 146 wounded. That's quite a warning. The guy is a war criminal. He will pay for what he has done and what he is doing.
Personally, I trust neither party. I'm just happy I don't live in the region.
 
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Postvieww

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I have been to Hiroshima. You will never sell me that there was something righteous about that.
Well you are probably not speaking Japanese. It killed thousands but potentially saved millions. War is ugly but sometimes necessary. Even in scripture whole cities were wiped out at God’s direction you can take that up with Him.
 
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Postvieww

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Sigh. I don't know why we can't just have peace. One would think just living would be cool, and letting ones neighbors do so too.
That would be ideal but there is still evil in the world. That won’t change until Jesus returns.
 
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Because you do not respect the sovereignty of other countries (if they are significantly weaker than you), the UN or the international law.

Or even treaties for that matter.

All that matters to the US foreign politics seems to be who is your president a friend with.
Has Iran lived up to the standard you articulate here?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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No, it's simply nonsensical. But it seems you can't stop yourself from using this 'argument'.
...but that's how this pattern normally goes.
(and let's not pretend the left doesn't have the same propensity -- I seem to recall in almost every debate/townhall/etc... anytime a right-wing group would do something, the immediate line of questioning to the candidate would be "Do you condemn <insert group here>?")

And the talking points shift.

If I would've said a year ago
"If Israel got into a full scale conflict with Iran, those guys would be out there Iranian flags and cheering the Ayatollah"

-- the response would have been an accusation of slippery slope

When it actually happens, and it gets highlighted...

-- the response then morphs to "gee, why are you so obsessed with what the protestors are doing???"


In that other recent thread, people seemed to be rather amused by the fact that a pro-Iranian/pro-Russian hacker group was targeting some of Trump's stuff.


If you were a US citizen, wouldn't that concern you?

You have Russia and Iran -- two nefarious forces who collaborate with each other and are buddy-buddy.

One political faction wants to downplay Russia and handle them with kid gloves, but hates Iran

The other political faction says Russia is the devil, but is giving vocal support to Iran.


You don't see what a problematic political web that's weaving?
 
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rjs330

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You need to understand your enemy if you want to defeat him. If you impute his motives to him instead of finding out what they really are you will not understand him and will have a harder time defeating him.
That we agree with. Its what ive been saying throughout these threads. Far too often leftists dont get it. They use the western mindset and apply it to the middle east mindset. Islamists do not think like us and if you dont understand that you will never understand how to deal with it.
 
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seeking.IAM

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It prevented any more death. WW2 was the deadliest war in human history where between 70 and 85 million people lost their lives.
That is a popular justification narrative. History says the war with Japan would have ended within months, before the end of 1945 had the U.S. not dropped the atomic bombs. The combined death toll is estimated to be between 145,000 and 246,000 people. Civilians. Women. Children. Innocents for the most part. It is hard to reconcile the narrative that it saved lives.
 
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Pommer

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No, no I can not see that. Calling out my presidents actions that I see as wrong is not synonymous with defending the actions of Iran no matter how incapable you are are of seeing the distinction. I am fully on board with Iran not having nuclear weapons while at the same time calling out the president for his unilateral action. It is to bad you fail to see the distinction.
Expecting all of our friends here on the forum are going to be able to parse subtlety and nuance at this point in time, is pollyannaistically optimistic
 
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