"Most Holy Theotokos, save us"

Dorothea · Jun 8, 2025

Hi, brothers and sisters,

A couple of months ago, my church stopped saying those words in the title of this thread: "Most Holy Theotokos, save us" in all of our services. I asked my priest. He said it was never part of the liturgy, just done out of respect. I was thinking it was because of all the new people coming to our church (and others around the country) - that they didn't understand what that meant (which is understandable because it's a saying for people already members of the church), and many Protestants are offended by that, thinking we're asking the Panagia to save us as in through salvation, which isn't the case.

Has anyone else's church here in the U.S. or elsewhere taken out that lovely chant? I'm sorry to see to gone. So used to hearing it. I still say it at church (not loudly, but quietly) during the liturgy and such. Anybody?

All4Christ · Jun 8, 2025

We still have it in Vespers - I don't remember it being in the Divine Liturgy, except on Feast Day festal antiphons (through the prayers of the Theotokos, save us). That said, I am in the choir, so I am singing the responses during that time. It's possible I'm missing it.

gzt · Jun 8, 2025

If you're talking about during litanies, it's more of a Greek style thing, not a thing in Russian style services except in syncretic environments where they cobble together a variety of Orthodox practices together. Personally I'm a fan of going by the service book as the Russians do...

E.C. · Jun 8, 2025

My parish will usually say it in Slavonic.

Could it have been omitted as a part of being in the Paschal season that just ended? At my parish the clergy and altar servers will normally chant "O Heavenly King" right before "Blessed is the Kingdom", but for the last fifty days we've been chanting the Pachal Troparion instead.

rusmeister · Jun 8, 2025

I don’t get it. The expression is all over our prayers. Who in the heck can say “out of respect”? We don’t do the Liturgy out of mere respect, and we shouldn’t hide part of our Tradition out of fear of Protestant sensibilities and misunderstandings.

ArmyMatt · Jun 9, 2025

did other parishes in your diocese take it out? I ask because that’s a weird thing to do without episcopal guidance.

Dorothea · Jun 9, 2025

All4Christ said:
We still have it in Vespers - I don't remember it being in the Divine Liturgy, except on Feast Day festal antiphons (through the prayers of the Theotokos, save us). That said, I am in the choir, so I am singing the responses during that time. It's possible I'm missing it.

Oh, ok. Thanks for the info!

Dorothea · Jun 9, 2025

gzt said:
If you're talking about during litanies, it's more of a Greek style thing, not a thing in Russian style services except in syncretic environments where they cobble together a variety of Orthodox practices together. Personally I'm a fan of going by the service book as the Russians do...

Ah, good to know. Thanks!

Dorothea · Jun 9, 2025

E.C. said:
My parish will usually say it in Slavonic.

Could it have been omitted as a part of being in the Paschal season that just ended? At my parish the clergy and altar servers will normally chant "O Heavenly King" right before "Blessed is the Kingdom", but for the last fifty days we've been chanting the Pachal Troparion instead.

It was said year round, not just during the Paschal season at my church (and the Greek churches I have attended most of my adult life). It's same for us for the "O Heavenly King" not said until Pentecost I believe.

Dorothea · Jun 9, 2025

rusmeister said:
I don’t get it. The expression is all over our prayers. Who in the heck can say “out of respect”? We don’t do the Liturgy out of mere respect, and we shouldn’t hide part of our Tradition out of fear of Protestant sensibilities and misunderstandings.

that's how I felt when I noticed it was gone and I went to my priest. I told him I assumed the bishop decided to remove it. My priest implied it was his bishop. I obviously didn't think he did that without permission. But still, it bothers me.

Dorothea · Jun 9, 2025

ArmyMatt said:
did other parishes in your diocese take it out? I ask because that’s a weird thing to do without episcopal guidance.

I don't know. I assumed the bishop of our diocese in Denver made this decision. I told my priest I assumed so. He implied this. He also seemed rather irritated when I first asked, so I got the idea he wasn't thrilled over it, but he didn't give his thoughts, which is expected since I'm pretty certain it came from our newer bishop that was installed about a year ago, I believe it's been, replacing Bishop Isaiah because he retired to a monastery. He's in his 90s.

ArmyMatt · Jun 9, 2025

Dorothea said:
I don't know. I assumed the bishop of our diocese in Denver made this decision. I told my priest I assumed so. He implied this. He also seemed rather irritated when I first asked, so I got the idea he wasn't thrilled over it, but he didn't give his thoughts, which is expected since I'm pretty certain it came from our newer bishop that was installed about a year ago, I believe it's been, replacing Bishop Isaiah because he retired to a monastery. He's in his 90s.

thanks, it makes more sense that something like this is from a bishop.

prodromos · Jun 9, 2025

I don't like it at all, and I am a convert. We need to be moulded by the Church, not the Church by us. Next they'll be removing "Through the prayers of the Theotokos, Saviour save us", soon followed by "through the prayers of our Holy Fathers..."

ArmyMatt · Jun 9, 2025

prodromos said:
I don't like it at all, and I am a convert. We need to be moulded by the Church, not the Church by us. Next they'll be removing "Through the prayers of the Theotokos, Saviour save us", soon followed by "through the prayers of our Holy Fathers..."

oh I am not saying I like it either, only it makes more sense that it came from a bishop than a priest doing this on his own.

Dorothea · Jun 9, 2025

ArmyMatt said:
thanks, it makes more sense that something like this is from a bishop.

you're welcome. Yes.

Dorothea · Jun 9, 2025

prodromos said:
I don't like it at all, and I am a convert. We need to be moulded by the Church, not the Church by us. Next they'll be removing "Through the prayers of the Theotokos, Saviour save us", soon followed by "through the prayers of our Holy Fathers..."

I feel the same way.

gzt · Jun 9, 2025

Nah, seems to me like the bishop wants to do it by the book. We're Orthodox, we like book.

E.C. · Jun 10, 2025

gzt said:
Nah, seems to me like the bishop wants to do it by the book. We're Orthodox, we like book.

We wrote book

All4Christ · Jun 11, 2025

ArmyMatt said:
oh I am not saying I like it either, only it makes more sense that it came from a bishop than a priest doing this on his own.

Do you have that said by the people in your parish at the litany section of the Divine Liturgy? I haven’t heard it at any of the OCA parishes for the 17 years that I’ve been Orthodox.

Same with the OCA St Tikhon’s text of the Divine Liturgy: https://nativityofchrist.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/sluzhebnik_sts_3liturgies.pdf

EDIT: We have through the prayers of the Theotokos [and the saints]….have [mercy and save, etc.] (with many variations) in the service. I think Dorothea is speaking about the one that the people say during the Litanies after “remembering our most holy and immaculate, most blessed and glorious Lady, the Theotokos, and ever-virgin Mary”specifically. (Please correct me if I’m wrong @Dorothea)

ArmyMatt · Jun 11, 2025

All4Christ said:
Do you have that said by the people in your parish at the litany section of the Divine Liturgy? I haven’t heard it at any of the OCA parishes for the 17 years that I’ve been Orthodox.

no, it’s done after Vespers. but I have seen it done at the end of Byzantine liturgies.

I personally don’t like changes like that to the services, but that’s the bishop’s call. I have enough to worry about as a knucklehead of a priest.

"Most Holy Theotokos, save us"

One of God's handmaidens

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙

The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.07 billion years

Well-Known Member

A Russified American Orthodox Chestertonian

Regular Member

One of God's handmaidens

One of God's handmaidens

One of God's handmaidens

One of God's handmaidens

One of God's handmaidens

Regular Member

Senior Veteran

Regular Member

One of God's handmaidens

One of God's handmaidens

The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.07 billion years

Well-Known Member

✙ The Handmaid of God Laura ✙

Regular Member

Similar threads