• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Does Matthew 24 describe the rapture?

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
8,144
2,726
MI
✟410,136.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So Jesus saying the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and everyone Isa 56:6 is a weak argument?
Yes, it's an extremely weak argument because Jesus was talking to Jews in Mark 2:27 and the context was in regards only to the Jews. It doesn't say it was made for all of mankind. It was only ever commanded of the Jews. Why can't you be honest about this?

As for Isaiah 56:6, why would you try to relate that to new covenant times?

Isaiah 56:6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord to minister to him, to love the name of the Lord, and to be his servants, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant—7 these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

If you think this is talking about all people being required to keep the Sabbath then you would have to conclude that all people are required to be under the old covenant while offering "burnt offerings and sacrifices". So, are you sure you want to try to use Isaiah 56:6 to support your claim? Are you presenting burnt offerings and sacrifices to the Lord like the people described in Isaiah 56:6-7?

Are you not a human-being? Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and the Sabbath points to Him as our Creator Exo 20:11 does He not know who He made the Sabbath for and why Exo 20:8 Isa 58:13 Isa 56:1-6, Lev 23:3 Eze 20:12 Eze 20:20 but us humans know more than He?, Its like someone coming in your house and telling you to tear it down.
Just show me where Gentiles were ever commanded to keep the Sabbath and then we can be done with this. All these scriptural gymnastics and contortions you're trying to do doesn't cut it.

The one that works for me every time is when Jesus said- If you love Me, keep My commandants Exo 20:6 John 14:15.
Yes, that works for me as well, but it does not work for you. The key phrase there is "My commandments". Christ's commandments were not the commandments of the law of Moses or else we would be expected to be circumcised and offer animal sacrifices and so on.

Here are Christ's commandments...

John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

John 15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Matthew 22: Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Matthew 28:18 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

There are other commands that Jesus gave besides these, but none of them were to keep the Sabbath. The two greatest commandments from the law of Moses sum up what Jesus commands of us. To love God with all of our heart, soul and mind and to love your neighbor as yourself. If you do those things, then Jesus will be pleased with you.

I love Jesus and the Sabbath is a commandment of God both divinely written and spoke by God in the same unit
I love Jesus, also, and I rest in Him every day as He is the Lord of the Sabbath. He never commanded His people to keep the Sabbath and you cannot show any scripture which says otherwise.
 
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
8,144
2,726
MI
✟410,136.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
All those whose names are not found in the Book of Life, will be flung into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:14-15
This means annihilation, as remembrance of them will be forgotten and never again brought to mind.
No, being cast into the lake of fire does not mean annihilation for them. It means eternal torment.

Revelation 14:9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
14,871
2,578
83
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟335,517.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
No, being cast into the lake of fire does not mean annihilation for them. It means eternal torment.

Revelation 14:9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.
That should put the frighteners on anybody taking the Mark of the beast!
However, because they will be forever separated from God, my belief is all those whose names are not Written in the Book of Life, will simply be no longer in any kind of existence. Discarded like the trash they are.

That is more in keeping with the God I know and love. There is no real need to have a permanent torture place for Eternity.
 
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
8,144
2,726
MI
✟410,136.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
That should put the frighteners on anybody taking the Mark of the beast!
However, because they will be forever separated from God, my belief is all those whose names are not Written in the Book of Life, will simply be no longer in any kind of existence. Discarded like the trash they are.

That is more in keeping with the God I know and love. There is no real need to have a permanent torture place for Eternity.
The God I know and love will give us eternal life as a reward for the faith we put in Christ during this temporary lifetime. So, if He can give an eternal reward for something done during a temporary lifetime, then He can also give an eternal punishment for those who reject Christ. His ways are not our ways. Our way says that temporary things deserve temporary rewards and punishments, but that's not how God does things.

As for the idea of "torture", I don't know what you mean by that, but they will experience torment of some kind. I don't think it's talking about a literal lake of fire because in other places it is described as "outer darkness".
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
14,871
2,578
83
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟335,517.00
Country
New Zealand
Gender
Male
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
The God I know and love will give us eternal life as a reward for the faith we put in Christ during this temporary lifetime. So, if He can give an eternal reward for something done during a temporary lifetime, then He can also give an eternal punishment for those who reject Christ. His ways are not our ways. Our way says that temporary things deserve temporary rewards and punishments, but that's not how God does things.

As for the idea of "torture", I don't know what you mean by that, but they will experience torment of some kind. I don't think it's talking about a literal lake of fire because in other places it is described as "outer darkness".
I look forward to the Day when our eyes will be opened and ears unstopped, to then know the truths of Gods Plans.
If I'm wrong on this issue, then you have bragging rights and VICE-VERSA!
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
12,796
5,369
USA
✟673,485.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Yes, it's an extremely weak argument because Jesus was talking to Jews in Mark 2:27
and the context was in regards only to the Jews. It doesn't say it was made for all of mankind. It was only ever commanded of the Jews. Why can't you be honest about this?
So Jesus doesn't know the difference between man and Jew, man is not how one spells Jew. Jesus is referring to when both the Sabbath and man were made and both of those point us to Creation, the Sabbath was made for man and the Greek word Jesus used means "Mankind" are not Gentiles part of mankind? The Hebrew word He used means "Adam" was Adam a Jew or just a man? Your disagreement here seems not to be with me.

The Greek word and meaning Jesus used:

nthrópos: Man, human, person, mankind
Original Word: ἄνθρωπος
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: anthrópos
Pronunciation: AN-thro-pos
Phonetic Spelling: (anth'-ro-pos)
Definition: Man, human, person, mankind
Meaning: a man, one of the human race.
I do not see Jew anywhere.

Its the same word He used in Mat 4:4
As for Isaiah 56:6, why would you try to relate that to new covenant times?

Isaiah 56:6 And foreigners who bind themselves to the Lord to minister to him, to love the name of the Lord, and to be his servants, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant—7 these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

If you think this is talking about all people being required to keep the Sabbath then you would have to conclude that all people are required to be under the old covenant while offering "burnt offerings and sacrifices". So, are you sure you want to try to use Isaiah 56:6 to support your claim? Are you presenting burnt offerings and sacrifices to the Lord like the people described in Isaiah 56:6-7?
Lets look at this Scripture a little closer...

First who is speaking here?
Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,

Is keep justice and doing righteousness just for the old covenant?
God tells us its the foundation of His Throne Psa 89:14 and His righteousness is everlasting Psa 119:142

For My salvation is about to come,
Did Christ salvation come in the Old Covenant?
And My righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man who does this,
There's that word again, man- do you really believe Jesus doesn't know the difference between Jew or man? The Creator of all?
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”


Jesus in His own words relates those who defile the Sabbath as doing evil. Its not the first time He has said this He relates it to idol worship Eze 20:16 and doing evil Neh 13:17 because who is one really profaning Eze 22:26. One is only deceiving themselves if doing righteousness or doing evil is only "Old Covenant" see Rev 22:11. No wonder why Jesus taught it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath Mat 12:12 meaning there are things we can do that are unlawful, meaning the Sabbath is still God's law according to Jesus who is God that became flesh.


6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
So if man and everyone is not clear enough, this should be who the Sabbath is for

Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant


This is a huge verse- speaking of a covenant relationship with Christ. Not many places in the Scripture tell us how to join ourselves to Him. God promised not to alter a word of His covenant Psa 89:34 why the New Covenant was established on better promises Heb 8:6 and has God's law now written in the heart and mind Heb 8:10

7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”


The holy mountain is heaven Joel 2:1
The earthy temple was patterned after God's heaven temple Heb 8:1-5 why we see the ark of the covenant that holds God's personal written Testimony, the Ten Commandments at the last trumpet, the standard of what all man will be Judged by, His unedited version, written by the finger of God, the Holy Spirit of Truth Rev 11:18-19

God still accepts sacrifices on His alter but in heaven they are not animal sacrifices they are the prayers of the saints Rev 5:8 Rev 8:3
I love this verse, it really sums it up
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
Who is the Sabbath for- those who holdfast His covenant for All Nations

No wonder why we see a little bit further in Isaiah

Isa 66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,

“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.


Again, if we object to the Sabbath so much now, will God force one to keep coming before Him from one Sabbath to another to worship in His presence on the Sabbath for eternity. This is how it was meant to be from the beginning, but sin separated us from God. We can still keep the Sabbath as a holy convocation Lev 23:3 as we see by the example of Jesus and the apostles but how much greater will it be to worship Him in His presence each Sabbath instead of worshipping Him in spirit.


Just show me where Gentiles were ever commanded to keep the Sabbath and then we can be done with this. All these scriptural gymnastics and contortions you're trying to do doesn't cut it.
Sorry you feel this way about God's Sabbath that He said was made for everyone, to bless Isa 56:2 and sanctify us Eze 20:12 because we need God to do this, we can't ourselves Isa 66:17

I can show you in the NT at least 10 times where we are told to keep the Sabbath- are you truly interested or has your mind been made up despite what the Scriptures teach? I would be happy to go through them, but if we have closed off our hearts to hear God's Truth, its not going to make a difference



Yes, that works for me as well, but it does not work for you. The key phrase there is "My commandments". Christ's commandments were not the commandments of the law of Moses or else we would be expected to be circumcised and offer animal sacrifices and so on.

Here are Christ's commandments...

John 13:34 “A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

John 15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Matthew 22: Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[c] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Matthew 28:18 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

There are other commands that Jesus gave besides these, but none of them were to keep the Sabbath. The two greatest commandments from the law of Moses sum up what Jesus commands of us. To love God with all of our heart, soul and mind and to love your neighbor as yourself. If you do those things, then Jesus will be pleased with you.
Yes, Jesus quoted Old Testament for the greatest commandments Deut 6:5 Lev 19:18 but what many don't realize, love is not just a feeling 1 John 5:3, its not up to each individual to determine their version of love to God, love to man. I know some people who say committing adultery is not a sin and they can love God, but still commit adultery and are saved (without a change in our heart and true repentance/ confession and forsaking Pro 28:13) . Or can use the Lords name in vain and still love God. I can't tell you how many professed Christians do this. Love is not up to each individual based on their heart Jer17:9 its actually a commitment to God. Love never went undefined, just like we see clearly what sums up love to our neighbor Rom 13:9 the second greatest commandment. All we have to do is read Deut 5, which Moses repeated the Ten Commandments almost 40 years after God wrote and spoke them Exo 20:1-17 Exo 31:18 before the children of Israel entered into their promise land for them to diligently keep and teach their children and children's children to diligently keep before saying Deut 6:5 so we know what is the summary of the greatest commandments. No greatest commandment to love God with all our hearts would ever not include Gods own personal Testimony of how to love God and how to love our neighbor. Exo 31:18 Exo 20:6 Deut 4:13
I love Jesus, also, and I rest in Him every day
Many really do not understand what this means. When we are resting in Christ we are not sinning. No one is sinning and finding rest.

Sin is:
1 John 3:4 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
You can find the rest of what He said in Exo 20:1-17
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
again quoting directly from the Ten Commandments

We should rest in Christ every day, which is why in Hebrews 3 and 4 we are called to enter His rest if we hear His voice and come out of our rebellion or sin

Heb 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,

8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness
,

Everyone is called to come out of sin and rebellion to God and He will give us rest.

But not everyone hears and listens and the Sabbath is a commandment of God, one many didn't keep in their trial of the wilderness Eze 20:13 we are told not to follow their path of disobedience Heb 4:11, just like not murdering our neighbor or not worshipping other gods is in this same unit. The Ten Commandments were never called the Ten suggestions or multiple choice.

Isa 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

We see this more also in Rev 14:11-12
as He is the Lord of the Sabbath.
True
Who said the Sabbath as "The Holy Day of the Lord" Isa 58:13

and also "The seventh day is Sabbath of the LORD" Ex 20:10

And we find that it is Christ's day "The Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28

He never commanded His people to keep the Sabbath and you cannot show any scripture which says otherwise.
Its all throughout our entire Bibles.....why the Sabbath is all throughout the entire Bible, because its part of God's commandments- no government can survive on lawlessness and God's government is no different. Why He didn't leave it up to man to write His law- He personally wrote it, He personally spoke it and its under His mercy seat in heaven, the standard of Judgement to all. Rev 11:18-19 Ecc 12:13-14 James 2:11-12 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 22:14-15 its up to use to accept God's own personal Testimony Exo 31:18 or we can lay it aside, meaning its not for me, as Jesus condemned Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13, its all about choices. Whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16 God said Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, it is My holy day, the holy day of the Lord- If my earthy father asked me to remember something is showing love to him doing that or forgetting. Why should we do this with our heavenly Father. He wrote it personally because its personal or should be for each of us.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
8,149
2,558
44
Helena
✟257,223.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Where does it mention Sabbath once in the entire chapter? It says what man esteem’s, not God. If the Sabbath is not there why add it? Its something we are not supposed to do.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

is that not about the Sabbath?
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
12,796
5,369
USA
✟673,485.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
is that not about the Sabbath?
Of course not, they are not discussing if they should obey or disobey one of God's divinely written commandments, why the Sabbath is not mentioned at all in the entire chapter and we are told not to add whats not there. They are discussing things man esteems, not what God esteems, God was clear on the day He esteemed over all others, He wrote it He spoke it He called it mine He made it a commandment He said He would not alter. God could not have been more clearer.

We also need to remember Paul's writings came with a warning that could potentially lead people to destruction (no salvation) so its a very weak argument to use a whole chapter about getting rid of the Sabbath commandment, the Holy day of the Lord, when the Sabbath is not mentioned once consider the lengths God made to write plainly the Ten Commandments. If there was a change to one of God's Ten Commandments that is under His mercy seat, He would have told us in the same manner it was given. Once God blesses, man can;t reverse num 23:20

The answer to what Paul is discussing is found in 1 Cor 8
 
Upvote 0

Postvieww

Believer
Sep 29, 2014
6,839
2,542
South
✟171,261.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
You know quite well that this conclusion is a direct contradiction of Revelation 20:11-15.
The proof is in when the Book of Life is opened. Only if our name is found to be Written in that Book, do we receive Eternal life.
This passage clearly says we are judged by our works which not a salvation issue it is a rewards issue. We are not saved by our works, we are saved by grace through faith. As to the book of life, I know of no passage that says when our names are entered into the book but we are clearly told it can be blotted out. Many believe everyone starts out in the book of life and can blotted out if they fail to receive Gods free gift of salvation. This is far from settled scripture based doctrine but IMO it is a very reasonable conclusion based on the facts given in scripture. One evidence is the belief that children who before their age of accountability and pass are saved and that could lead one to believe their names are already in the Book of Life. If you know of an actual passage that states when names are entered into the Book of Life, please share it.
Luke 16:19-31 must be a fable, a homily; told to warn us to get right with God in this life. It is our only chance for Eternity.
“ Must be” or your description of “fable” does not work for me. I believe it is not a parable for reasons I have stated numerous times on this forum.
There is no mention in the Bible, of any human actually living in heaven. And there is no purpose or valid reason for any human to live in heaven.
The faithful Christian peoples will be on earth when Jesus Returns, to be His Priests and co-rulers Isaiah 66:21, Revelation 5:9-10
I agree no one in human physical form can enter or live in heaven but I believe the spirits of deceased believers are currently there. Much scriptural evidence supports this . Yes I agree with you that our eternal home will be on the new earth after the return of Christ from heaven with the saints to be at that time given new glorified bodies like that of Christ . 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
If it is difficult for people to overcome false teachings and understand Biblical truths, then how can they get thru the forthcoming end time things, without falling from their faith?
Neither you nor I have all truth but that is what we strive for.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
12,796
5,369
USA
✟673,485.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
This passage clearly says we are judged by our works which not a salvation issue it is a rewards issue.
The rewards are either saved or lost, eternal life, those written in the Book of Life or eternal death, the punishment is eternal, not that there is a eternal punishing. The wages of sin is death (no more) Rom 6:23 Those who believe (be live) in Him will not perish (death)
We are not saved by our works, we are saved by grace through faith.
While we are saved by grace through faith, our works demonstrates our faith.

Does someone with faith obey God or disobey God? We can see this in Hebrews chapter 11.

This is the fruit of someone saved according to Scripture
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

What faith did Jesus have? It is demonstrated by the life Jesus lived and what He taught.

We are not saved by keeping God's law because everyone has broke it and sinned so our salvation comes by faith through the blood of Jesus. Those with faith are going to abide in Him John 15:4,5,10 1 John 3:24 following in His example 1 John 2:6

That said, no one is saved by lawlessness (sin) according to Jesus Mat 7:23 Rev 22:14-15 Heb 10:26-30 Jesus came to save us from our sins Mat 1:21 and through Christ we can gain victor over it. John 14:15-18
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
8,149
2,558
44
Helena
✟257,223.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Of course not, they are not discussing if they should obey or disobey one of God's divinely written commandments, why the Sabbath is not mentioned at all in the entire chapter and we are told not to add whats not there. They are discussing things man esteems, not what God esteems, God was clear on the day He esteemed over all others, He wrote it He spoke it He called it mine He made it a commandment He said He would not alter. God could not have been more clearer.

We also need to remember Paul's writings came with a warning that could potentially lead people to destruction (no salvation) so its a very weak argument to use a whole chapter about getting rid of the Sabbath commandment, the Holy day of the Lord, when the Sabbath is not mentioned once consider the lengths God made to write plainly the Ten Commandments. If there was a change to one of God's Ten Commandments that is under His mercy seat, He would have told us in the same manner it was given. Once God blesses, man can;t reverse num 23:20

The answer to what Paul is discussing is found in 1 Cor 8
Okay what about Colossians 2 then? Where the same thing comes up. As to whether or not to follow religious laws of the Jews? Sabbaths is specifically named there.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
12,796
5,369
USA
✟673,485.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Okay what about Colossians 2 then? Where the same thing comes up. As to whether or not to follow religious laws of the Jews? Sabbaths is specifically named there.
Yes, I replied to this here Does Matthew 24 describe the rapture? I would welcome your comments after reading and studying and hopefully with some prayers. :)
 
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
8,144
2,726
MI
✟410,136.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I look forward to the Day when our eyes will be opened and ears unstopped, to then know the truths of Gods Plans.
That's what I look forward to for you. Your obsession with physical disasters makes you unaware of spiritual things.

If I'm wrong on this issue,
You are.

then you have bragging rights and VICE-VERSA!
It's not about bragging rights. If that's what you're doing all of this for then you have the wrong perspective and you need to humble yourself.
 
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
8,144
2,726
MI
✟410,136.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
So Jesus doesn't know the difference between man and Jew, man is not how one spells Jew. Jesus is referring to when both the Sabbath and man were made and both of those point us to Creation, the Sabbath was made for man and the Greek word Jesus used means "Mankind" are not Gentiles part of mankind? The Hebrew word He used means "Adam" was Adam a Jew or just a man? Your disagreement here seems not to be with me.

The Greek word and meaning Jesus used:

nthrópos: Man, human, person, mankind
Original Word: ἄνθρωπος
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: anthrópos
Pronunciation: AN-thro-pos
Phonetic Spelling: (anth'-ro-pos)
Definition: Man, human, person, mankind
Meaning: a man, one of the human race.
I do not see Jew anywhere.

Its the same word He used in Mat 4:4

Lets look at this Scripture a little closer...

First who is speaking here?
Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,

Is keep justice and doing righteousness just for the old covenant?
God tells us its the foundation of His Throne Psa 89:14 and His righteousness is everlasting Psa 119:142

For My salvation is about to come,
Did Christ salvation come in the Old Covenant?
And My righteousness to be revealed.

2 Blessed is the man who does this,
There's that word again, man- do you really believe Jesus doesn't know the difference between Jew or man? The Creator of all?
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”


Jesus in His own words relates those who defile the Sabbath as doing evil. Its not the first time He has said this He relates it to idol worship Eze 20:16 and doing evil Neh 13:17 because who is one really profaning Eze 22:26. One is only deceiving themselves if doing righteousness or doing evil is only "Old Covenant" see Rev 22:11. No wonder why Jesus taught it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath Mat 12:12 meaning there are things we can do that are unlawful, meaning the Sabbath is still God's law according to Jesus who is God that became flesh.


6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
So if man and everyone is not clear enough, this should be who the Sabbath is for

Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant


This is a huge verse- speaking of a covenant relationship with Christ. Not many places in the Scripture tell us how to join ourselves to Him. God promised not to alter a word of His covenant Psa 89:34 why the New Covenant was established on better promises Heb 8:6 and has God's law now written in the heart and mind Heb 8:10

7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”


The holy mountain is heaven Joel 2:1
The earthy temple was patterned after God's heaven temple Heb 8:1-5 why we see the ark of the covenant that holds God's personal written Testimony, the Ten Commandments at the last trumpet, the standard of what all man will be Judged by, His unedited version, written by the finger of God, the Holy Spirit of Truth Rev 11:18-19

God still accepts sacrifices on His alter but in heaven they are not animal sacrifices they are the prayers of the saints Rev 5:8 Rev 8:3
I love this verse, it really sums it up
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
Who is the Sabbath for- those who holdfast His covenant for All Nations

No wonder why we see a little bit further in Isaiah

Isa 66:22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,

“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.


Again, if we object to the Sabbath so much now, will God force one to keep coming before Him from one Sabbath to another to worship in His presence on the Sabbath for eternity. This is how it was meant to be from the beginning, but sin separated us from God. We can still keep the Sabbath as a holy convocation Lev 23:3 as we see by the example of Jesus and the apostles but how much greater will it be to worship Him in His presence each Sabbath instead of worshipping Him in spirit.



Sorry you feel this way about God's Sabbath that He said was made for everyone, to bless Isa 56:2 and sanctify us Eze 20:12 because we need God to do this, we can't ourselves Isa 66:17

I can show you in the NT at least 10 times where we are told to keep the Sabbath- are you truly interested or has your mind been made up despite what the Scriptures teach? I would be happy to go through them, but if we have closed off our hearts to hear God's Truth, its not going to make a difference




Yes, Jesus quoted Old Testament for the greatest commandments Deut 6:5 Lev 19:18 but what many don't realize, love is not just a feeling 1 John 5:3, its not up to each individual to determine their version of love to God, love to man. I know some people who say committing adultery is not a sin and they can love God, but still commit adultery and are saved (without a change in our heart and true repentance/ confession and forsaking Pro 28:13) . Or can use the Lords name in vain and still love God. I can't tell you how many professed Christians do this. Love is not up to each individual based on their heart Jer17:9 its actually a commitment to God. Love never went undefined, just like we see clearly what sums up love to our neighbor Rom 13:9 the second greatest commandment. All we have to do is read Deut 5, which Moses repeated the Ten Commandments almost 40 years after God wrote and spoke them Exo 20:1-17 Exo 31:18 before the children of Israel entered into their promise land for them to diligently keep and teach their children and children's children to diligently keep before saying Deut 6:5 so we know what is the summary of the greatest commandments. No greatest commandment to love God with all our hearts would ever not include Gods own personal Testimony of how to love God and how to love our neighbor. Exo 31:18 Exo 20:6 Deut 4:13

Many really do not understand what this means. When we are resting in Christ we are not sinning. No one is sinning and finding rest.

Sin is:
1 John 3:4 4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
You can find the rest of what He said in Exo 20:1-17
Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
again quoting directly from the Ten Commandments

We should rest in Christ every day, which is why in Hebrews 3 and 4 we are called to enter His rest if we hear His voice and come out of our rebellion or sin

Heb 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,

8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness
,

Everyone is called to come out of sin and rebellion to God and He will give us rest.

But not everyone hears and listens and the Sabbath is a commandment of God, one many didn't keep in their trial of the wilderness Eze 20:13 we are told not to follow their path of disobedience Heb 4:11, just like not murdering our neighbor or not worshipping other gods is in this same unit. The Ten Commandments were never called the Ten suggestions or multiple choice.

Isa 48:18 Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.

We see this more also in Rev 14:11-12

True
Who said the Sabbath as "The Holy Day of the Lord" Isa 58:13

and also "The seventh day is Sabbath of the LORD" Ex 20:10

And we find that it is Christ's day "The Son of man is LORD of the Sabbath" Mark 2:28


Its all throughout our entire Bibles.....why the Sabbath is all throughout the entire Bible, because its part of God's commandments- no government can survive on lawlessness and God's government is no different. Why He didn't leave it up to man to write His law- He personally wrote it, He personally spoke it and its under His mercy seat in heaven, the standard of Judgement to all. Rev 11:18-19 Ecc 12:13-14 James 2:11-12 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 22:14-15 its up to use to accept God's own personal Testimony Exo 31:18 or we can lay it aside, meaning its not for me, as Jesus condemned Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13, its all about choices. Whoever we obey is who we serve Rom 6:16 God said Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, it is My holy day, the holy day of the Lord- If my earthy father asked me to remember something is showing love to him doing that or forgetting. Why should we do this with our heavenly Father. He wrote it personally because its personal or should be for each of us.
All those words, but none of them show that the commandment to keep the Sabbath was ever given to Gentiles.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
12,796
5,369
USA
✟673,485.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
All those words, but none of them show that the commandment to keep the Sabbath was ever given to Gentiles.
Like I said people see what they want to. All gets sorted out soon enough. Be well.
 
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
8,144
2,726
MI
✟410,136.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
12,796
5,369
USA
✟673,485.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Yes, that is clearly the case for you.
I responded to every objection with Scripture. I offered to show an additional 10 places where we are commanded to keep the Sabbath in the NT, sadly was laid aside, similar to what we are told happened in Scripture Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13
You be well, also.
Thanks. :)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Spiritual Jew

Amillennialist
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2020
8,144
2,726
MI
✟410,136.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I responded to every objection with Scripture. I offered to show an additional 10 places where we are commanded to keep the Sabbath in the NT, sadly was laid aside, similar to what we are told happened in Scripture Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13
You can show that if you want, but I know that Gentiles have never been commanded to keep the Sabbath. Some of the early Jewish believers who had been Pharisees tried to command the Gentiles to be circumcised and keep all of the law of Moses, which was only commanded of the Israelites and not the Gentiles. And the law of Moses includes the Ten Commandments. But Peter set them straight. You should learn from Peter.

Acts 15:5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.” 6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”

Peter explained that there was no reason to try to put the burden of keeping all of the commandments of the law of Moses on the Gentiles. He understood that the church is not under the law, but under grace instead. Read Galatians 3 and you will see that Paul taught that it was foolish for Gentiles to put themselves under the law because it's a curse to do that. No one can keep the whole law. If you break even one of the 613 commandments of the law then you're guilty of breaking all of them (James 2:10). As Christians, we are free from that burden. We are free to choose what to eat or drink and whether to observe a New Moon festival or a Sabbath day which were a shadow of the things to come, with the reality being found in Christ (Colossians 2:16-17).

You're welcome.
 
Upvote 0

Jamdoc

Watching and Praying Always
Oct 22, 2019
8,149
2,558
44
Helena
✟257,223.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Yes, I replied to this here Does Matthew 24 describe the rapture? I would welcome your comments after reading and studying and hopefully with some prayers. :)
Well he says Sabbaths. Paul doesn't delineate out any specific Sabbaths and then say 'but of course keep the 7th day Sabbath, don't you dare flick a lightswitch on a Saturday!"

I think the most important thing is.. the Sabbath was created for Man, not Man for the Sabbath. Being legalistic about the Sabbath actually makes it not a blessing and not restful.

The main thing is.. you don't do hard labor 7 days a week, or work for profit 7 days a week. If you have weekends off, and use Saturday to unwind and recuperate from the week of work, maybe do recreational activity with your family, I think that counts.
 
Upvote 0

JulieB67

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2020
1,981
858
57
Ohio US
✟199,257.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The main thing is.. you don't do hard labor 7 days a week,
This was it exactly and yet people have turned it into what day should we worship/go to church -Saturday or Sunday. And as you stated from the bible- the Sabbath was made for man, not the other way around. It was about rest period.

And today we know where to find that spiritual rest/sabbatimos. And that's 24/7, not just one day of the week.
 
Upvote 0