Does Matthew 24 describe the rapture?

[Postvieww]

I agree, when someone dies the spirit goes back to Christ

Great but this is not the teaching of The SDA church.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Great but this is not the teaching of The SDA church.

Please look at item #2 and #3

Are the Dead Really Dead? | Bible Study Guides | Amazing Facts

This Halloween, don't make plans to talk to your dead relative. Dive into this Bible study instead, which exposes the greatest lie ever told—where are the dead?

www.amazingfacts.org

 

[Jamdoc]

Can you please show me where man is above God anywhere in the Bible. People use this verse, but its really out of context. It says what one man esteems above another, not what God esteemed, God esteemed the seventh day at creation above all others when He blessed, sanctified and made holy the seventh day Gen 2:1-3 He called the seventh day the Sabbath of the Lord thy God Exo 20:10 My holy day, the holy day of the Lord thus saith the Lord Isa 58:13 that Jesus is Lord of Mark 2:28 meaning it didn't change. The 4th commandment is more than the Sabbath commandment, it is a commandment for all days. Work 6 days Exo 20:9 keep the seventh day Sabbath holy Exo 20:8-10 as man was made in God's likeness from creation Gen 1:26

Were the apostles undermining God's personal Testimony, written by the God of the Universe? Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13

Of course not, why the Sabbath is not mentioned at all in this enter chapter. Man adds it there when we were told not to Pro 30:5-6

It would be similar to us debating if we should keep Easter or Christmas. Some Christians do and some don't. Not if we should obey God and His commandments or not. God tells us we should Exo 20:6 John 14:15 Mat 14:3-14 Mat 5:19-30 Rev 12:17 Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14

I pray this helps a little.

The whole chapter is about people not arguing with each other about things like dietary laws and sabbath keeping.

Just read it, Romans 14.

Also Colossians 2, read the whole chapter if you're going to consider taking Colossians 2:16 out of context because it's the same idea, that people are demanding following the laws of Moses. If to you it's good to celebrate new moons, sabbaths, and feasts of the Lord, then do those. If you reckon every day equally Holy, then follow that.

and largely, it gets blown out of proportion is the problem. What the Lord meant the Sabbath for was to give people a guaranteed day of rest from labor per week, because we need rest. As Jesus put it, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" God did not make the Sabbath so that you could be stressed out about not turning on light switches and basically keep you bedridden to avoid doing any activity and getting a Shabbos Goy to serve you on the Sabbath so you don't dare lift a finger (which if you get technical about it, having a Shabbos Goy is actually breaking the law regarding Sabbaths to begin with, as the commandment covers servants and even strangers within your gates, if you can't do it on the Sabbath, you can't have someone else do it for you either).
The Sabbath is supposed to be rest, recreational, not stressing over what you can and cannot do, that's the opposite of rest.

like, if you're not slaving away 7 days a week, you're getting rest, I guess preferably you get weekends off right (which the Sabbath is part of WHY we get weekends off even in secular western culture, you get Saturday to rest and recreation, and Sunday to go to Church and prepare for the next week).
Should you ... do major lawn/yardwork, housework/home improvement/chores and errands on Saturday? Probably not, if you've worked all week you can use Saturday to unwind and relax. Do the other things on Sunday
But should you have a stressful rigid Sabbath routine? Is that rest?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The whole chapter is about people not arguing with each other about things like dietary laws and sabbath keeping.

Just read it, Romans 14.

Also Colossians 2, read the whole chapter if you're going to consider taking Colossians 2:16 out of context because it's the same idea, that people are demanding following the laws of Moses. If to you it's good to celebrate new moons, sabbaths, and feasts of the Lord, then do those. If you reckon every day equally Holy, then follow that.

and largely, it gets blown out of proportion is the problem. What the Lord meant the Sabbath for was to give people a guaranteed day of rest from labor per week, because we need rest. As Jesus put it, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" God did not make the Sabbath so that you could be stressed out about not turning on light switches and basically keep you bedridden to avoid doing any activity and getting a Shabbos Goy to serve you on the Sabbath so you don't dare lift a finger (which if you get technical about it, having a Shabbos Goy is actually breaking the law regarding Sabbaths to begin with, as the commandment covers servants and even strangers within your gates, if you can't do it on the Sabbath, you can't have someone else do it for you either).
The Sabbath is supposed to be rest, recreational, not stressing over what you can and cannot do, that's the opposite of rest.

like, if you're not slaving away 7 days a week, you're getting rest, I guess preferably you get weekends off right (which the Sabbath is part of WHY we get weekends off even in secular western culture, you get Saturday to rest and recreation, and Sunday to go to Church and prepare for the next week).
Should you ... do major lawn/yardwork, housework/home improvement/chores and errands on Saturday? Probably not, if you've worked all week you can use Saturday to unwind and relax. Do the other things on Sunday
But should you have a stressful rigid Sabbath routine? Is that rest?

Where does it mention Sabbath once in the entire chapter? It says what man esteem’s, not God. If the Sabbath is not there why add it? Its something we are not supposed to do.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The whole chapter is about people not arguing with each other about things like dietary laws and sabbath keeping.

Just read it, Romans 14.

Also Colossians 2, read the whole chapter if you're going to consider taking Colossians 2:16 out of context because it's the same idea, that people are demanding following the laws of Moses. If to you it's good to celebrate new moons, sabbaths, and feasts of the Lord, then do those. If you reckon every day equally Holy, then follow that.

and largely, it gets blown out of proportion is the problem. What the Lord meant the Sabbath for was to give people a guaranteed day of rest from labor per week, because we need rest. As Jesus put it, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:" God did not make the Sabbath so that you could be stressed out about not turning on light switches and basically keep you bedridden to avoid doing any activity and getting a Shabbos Goy to serve you on the Sabbath so you don't dare lift a finger (which if you get technical about it, having a Shabbos Goy is actually breaking the law regarding Sabbaths to begin with, as the commandment covers servants and even strangers within your gates, if you can't do it on the Sabbath, you can't have someone else do it for you either).
The Sabbath is supposed to be rest, recreational, not stressing over what you can and cannot do, that's the opposite of rest.

like, if you're not slaving away 7 days a week, you're getting rest, I guess preferably you get weekends off right (which the Sabbath is part of WHY we get weekends off even in secular western culture, you get Saturday to rest and recreation, and Sunday to go to Church and prepare for the next week).
Should you ... do major lawn/yardwork, housework/home improvement/chores and errands on Saturday? Probably not, if you've worked all week you can use Saturday to unwind and relax. Do the other things on Sunday
But should you have a stressful rigid Sabbath routine? Is that rest?

So basically you are saying we need rest, but instead of taking rest on the day God commanded Exo 20:8-11, the day He set aside, blessed and sanctified for holy use to bless man Isa 56:2 and sanctify us Eze 20:12 we in turn are going to honor God, by taking a day that God deemed to do work and labors Exo 20:9 and make that a day to rest and keep holy, despite God never sanctifying any other day other than the seventh day Sabbath . This is essentially saying we do not need God's sanctification, we can sanctify ourselves. According to Isa 66:17 that is not going to work out so well. God already told us when we do this what happens Eze 22:26

I figured Col 2:16 would come up and lets look at that deeper....

First lets bring in more context starting at verse 14

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

To try to connect the weekly Sabbath to Col 2:14-17 is essentially saying God was against man from Creation because that's when the weekly Sabbath started. Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3 This essentially is an attack on the character of God. Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, the Hebrew word of man here means Adam, the Greek, mankind. Man was made before the first Sabbath that God kept, man was made in God’s image and likeness. The Sabbath points us back to the God of Creation Exo 20:11 God’s Sabbath is meant to bless Isa 56:2 and sanctify us Eze 20:12 and a sign between God and man Eze 20:20 and is the holy day of the Lord thy God, thus saith the Lord Isa 58:13 How do pray is that against man?


There is more than one Sabbath in the scriptures, and there is a warning in scripture about Paul's writings, so we need to study his writings very carefully and make sure we are not using them to teach against what Jesus taught because if we miss what he is trying to say, it comes with some steep warnings, we should take serious.

2 Peter 3:15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.


So lets examine Col 2:16-17.


Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

So we know from these verses Paul is referring to the following

1. something handwritten
2. ordinances
3. was contrary and against
4. nailed to the cross

So is this referring to any of the Ten Commandments?

1. Was the Ten Commandments handwritten?
No: Exo 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

2. Was the Ten Commandments called ordinances?
NO: God said: 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

3. Was the Sabbath contrary and against?
NO: Holy and blessed by God is not the definition of contrary and against
Exo 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

4. Was the Sabbath nailed to the Cross?
No! Jesus in His own Words taught the Sabbath would be kept by His faithful decades after the Cross and until the second coming of Jesus Christ Mat 24:20 The Sabbath continues in the New Heaven and New Earth for His saints Isa 66:22-23

So what is Paul referring to.

There is more than one sabbath in the scripture and Paul made it so clear what he was referring to never countermanding Christ on what He taught or how He lived and what even Paul taught as he kept every Sabbath faithful as well Acts 15:21 Acts 18:4 etc

Where does Paul get the words "... against us ... contrary to us..." from, in the context of the passages he is quoting from in the Old Testament, and what does it mean there?

Deuteronomy 31:26 KJB - Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Deuteronomy 31:28 KJB - Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them.

Deuteronomy 30:19 KJB - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Paul is referring to what was written in the book of the law handwritten by Moses set outside the ark as witness against. Read Col 2:14KJV as the context fits perfectly

The Ten Commandments finger written by God was placed inside the ark of the covenant and we are blessed when keeping Isa 56:2 Rev 22:14

What were the ordinances


Deuteronomy 31:26 KJB - Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.";
Colossians 2:14 "handwriting of ordinances";

Ephesians 2:15 "the law of commandments contained in ordinances";

Hebrews 9:1 "... also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.";

Hebrews 9:10 "... meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances ...";

Ezekiel 43:18 "... These are the ordinances of the altar in the day when they shall make it, to offer burnt offerings thereon, and to sprinkle blood thereon."

Luke 1:6 "... walking in all the commandments and ordinances ...";

Numbers 9:12 "They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it.";

2 Chronicles 33:8 "... to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses."]

It had to do with all the sacrificial system, animal sacrifices feast days that some were also called sabbath(s) written in the book of the law- that all pointed to Jesus and His great sacrifice - the Lamb that takes away the sins of the world. There is no animal sacrifices in the Ten Commandments

Colossians 2 KJB, parallels Ephesians 2 KJB, and Hebrews 9-10 KJB. The language is the same. The "ordinances" in Colossians 2 deals with "shadows", such as the daily "meat and drink" offerings of a worldly sanctuary and carnal ordinances, the seasonal "feast days", the monthly"new moons", and the year based "sabbaths", in the singular, every 7 and 50th years, as Paul is citing Psalms 98:1-3; and Ezekiel 45:17 KJB with other texts.

The Sabbath of the LORD thy God is always called "My [as in God's] Sabbaths", and the others in Leviticus 23:4 onward are called "your [the peoples] sabbaths" [Leviticus 26:35 KJB] which are "beside [given in addition to] the sabbaths of the LORD" [Leviticus 23:38 KJB]. The Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath of the 4th Commandment, are "light" [Proverbs 6:23, Isaiah 8:20, 51:4 KJB], never a "shadow", are "spiritual" [Romans 7:14 KJB], never "carnal" [Hebrews 9:10 KJB].

Colossians 2:14 - "ordinances"
Ephesians 2:15 - "law of commandments contained in ordinances"
Hebrews 9:1 - "ordinances of divine service"
Hebrews 9:10 - "carnal ordinances"

Colossians 2:16 - "in meat, or in drink" [offerings]
Hebrews 9:10 - "meats and drinks" [offerings]

Colossians 2:12 - "also ye are risen with him"
Ephesians 2:6 - "raised us up together"

Colossians 2:16 - "a shadow of things to come"
Ephesians 2:7 - "in the ages to come"
Hebrews 9:11 - "of good things to come"
Hebrews 10:1 - "the law having a shadow of good things to come", "those sacrifices", "offered year by

The weekly Sabbath can’t be a shadow of anything because it points to Creation when God made everything according to His perfect plan before the fall of mankind.

You can read more about this in detail here COL 2:14-17 The REAL truth from God's Word

 

[Spiritual Jew]

a lot of the Mosaic laws were specifically created in order to make a separation between Jew and Gentile

after the Cross, after the Gospel went to the Gentiles, that separation was no longer needed. Hence God's vision to Peter about all animals being clean now. Yes it was in regards to taking the gospel to the Gentiles but Peter should have already known to do that since that was in the great commission.
It was also quite literally, going back to Noah where all animals were clean, doing away with Dietary Laws that existed specifically to separate Israel from the Gentiles.
Paul understood this, that's why Paul was against Judaizing. Those laws were to separate Jew from Gentile but now that the Gospel is gone out to the whole world, and we're all Co-heirs.. no more separation needed.

I don't think it's sin to still go kosher, fi you're doing it as a part of say, being a Messianic Jew, to have your cultural identity defined by these things. It's not evil to do that. It's not sin to set apart the Sabbath for worship either. Paul didn't put it that way, it's a Romans 14 thing. A "liberty" thing.

I agree with you because of what Paul said. Those things aren't required for us in the church, but if someone wants to do those things because it makes them feel closer to God, then, by all means, they should do that.

(I'm agreeing with you but just adding some context to agree with you)

Yes, I can see that. But, thanks for making sure that is clear in case I didn't catch that.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

@Jamdoc
Can you please show me where its says the Sabbath is no longer a commandment in the NT? Can you please show me where the Sabbath is not part of God's covenant Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28, the law of Moses was outside the ark Deut 31:24-26 God's own Testimony, the Ten Commandments that includes the Sabbath is part of Gods Testimony that is inside the ark. Exo 31:18 Exo 40:20

The very close followers of Jesus who followed Him everywhere kept the Sabbath according to the commandment in the NT after His death

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

So if there was a change to one of God's personally spoken and personal written, the personal Testimony of God, the Creator of all the Universe Exo 31:18 Deut 4:13 commandments, Jesus would have told someone, anyone, can you please find that verse for me? Jesus said He came not to destroy the law, not a jot or tittle Mat 5:17-30

His faithful followers were one of the first people He saw when He rose and they knew obeying Gods commandments including the Sabbath was still important and why it was kept after His death, so Jesus never told them.

Lets look at Jesus own personal Testimony

Mat 24:20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.

The Sabbath never ended at least 40 years after His death because He commissioned His faithful to pray at least 40 years that the destruction of Jerusalem not be on the Sabbath day or in winter. Why would Jesus say this if it was "Old Covenant" the New Covenant ratified at His death, did Jesus teach "Old Covenant"

What did Jesus say on this matter?

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go [c]therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always

Did the apostles teach the Sabbath was "old covenant" when the Gentiles asked for more gospel preaching on the next Sabbath

Act 13:42 [n]So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

Did the apostles correct them that's "Old covenant" or for Jews only, mind you this is 30 years after the death of Christ

This is a weak argument. That was when the gospel would be preached, so that is when they asked them to preach it again. It does not mean that the Gentiles thought they were obligated to keep the Sabbath the way the Jews were commanded to do.

Of course they didn't because the Sabbath is a commandment of God and the apostles taught and kept God's commandments

Acts 13:44 4 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Why both Jews and Gentiles were keeping every Sabbath
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

That is when he preached, so, naturally, that is when the Gentiles would go to hear him preach. That has nothing to do with Gentiles thinking that the command to keep the Sabbath applied to them. It was never made to Gentiles. You can't get around that no matter what you do.

No wonder why Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man and not just the Jews Mark 2:27 and is for everyone Isa 56:6 thus saith the Lord.

I am not sure why anyone would call spending time with God on the day He set aside from Creation, blessed, sanctified for holy use to spend quality time with man so He can bless Isa 56:2 and sanctify us Eze 22:12 because man can't sanctify themselves Isa 66:17 as legalism

Because some people, to survive and make a living, have to work on Saturday. So, they rest on some other day. Or some people might want to rest in the Lord in parts of multiple days. Being so legalistic about it was not God's intention at all. Don't be like the Pharisees who thought Jesus was breaking the Sabbath commandment by healing someone on that day. I am telling you the truth here, so stop allowing the SDA church or whoever taught you these things to dictate how you should live your life. Be led by the Holy Spirit, not man-made false doctrine.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This is a weak argument. That was when the gospel would be preached, so that is when they asked them to preach it again. It does not mean that the Gentiles thought they were obligated to keep the Sabbath the way the Jews were commanded to do.

So Jesus saying the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:27 and everyone Isa 56:6 is a weak argument? Are you not a human-being? Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath and the Sabbath points to Him as our Creator Exo 20:11 does He not know who He made the Sabbath for and why Exo 20:8 Isa 58:13 Isa 56:1-6, Lev 23:3 Eze 20:12 Eze 20:20 but us humans know more than He?, Its like someone coming in your house and telling you to tear it down.

The one that works for me every time is when Jesus said- If you love Me, keep My commandants Exo 20:6 John 14:15. I love Jesus and the Sabbath is a commandment of God both divinely written and spoke by God in the same unit He placed not to worship other gods or commit murder. Deut 4:13 Exo 20:1-17. What I find sad, is the whole bible is about the testimony of Jesus Christ from the prophets and the apostles, yet when it comes to God's own personal Testimony, personally written by God Himself Exo 31:18 the God of the Universe people lay it aside, as to say its not for me just like those Jesus condemned in Scripture in lieu of their man-made traditions Mark 7:7-13 Mat 15:3-14. Its too bad because the Ten Commandments sits under Christ mercy seat revealed in heaven Heb 8:1-5 and its what all man will be judged by regardless if they accept it or not Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30 James 2:11-12 Rev 22:14-15 why we see them at the last trumpet before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ Rev 11:18-19. I personally would not want to remove any law He covers under His mercy seat, but we are given free will.

That is when he preached, so, naturally, that is when the Gentiles would go to hear him preach. That has nothing to do with Gentiles thinking that the command to keep the Sabbath applied to them. It was never made to Gentiles. You can't get around that no matter what you do.

But you said it was "Old Covenant" mind you this was decades after the Cross, why would the apostles not correct the Gentiles when asked for more gospel preaching the next Sabbath and instead tell them, we are in the New Covenant and we instead meet on day one. Did that happen anywhere in the Scriptures. No, its all a man-made doctrine.

The better argument is the Sabbath is a holy convocation Lev 23:3 its the only day God commanded on a weekly basis to keep holy, thus saith the Lord. Exo 20:8-11. Jesus kept the Sabbath as a holy convocation Luke 4:16 a Christian means to be a follower of Christ and why the apostle's observed every Sabbath in the same manner, because Jesus commissioned the apostles to observe everything He commanded Mat 28:18-20 and the Sabbath is a commandment of God and the apostles observed every Sabbath with the Gentiles. Acts 15:21 Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 16:18 Acts 18:4 and once the saints get to heaven the pattern continues Isa 66:22-23. I can't help but wonder those who object to the Sabbath now, would they really be happy in heaven when the Sabbath continues. God is a God of love and would never force someone to do something they are so opposed to. It why I believe His judgement is one of love because not everyone would be happy in heaven and this world is our test, much like God tested Adam and Eve. The Ten Commandments were never called the commandments for the Jews. God in His own Words numbered them by design Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 He called them "My commandments" Exo 20:6 He personally wrote and personal spoke them Exo 31:18 , they are His personal Testimony and God's people, which is not Jew or Gentile but those with faith Gal 3:26-29 keep God's commandments (His version) and have the faith of Jesus Rev 14:12 What faith did Jesus have, how did He live, what did He teach?

Because some people, to survive and make a living, have to work on Saturday. So, they rest on some other day. Or some people might want to rest in the Lord in parts of multiple days. Being so legalistic about it was not God's intention at all. Don't be like the Pharisees who thought Jesus was breaking the Sabbath commandment by healing someone on that day.

This is where faith comes in. We are told But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Mat 6:33

Sometime we have to make sacrifices to obey God. God promises to take care of us when we take that leap of faith. I know He has blessed me ten-fold once I made the decision to obey His Sabbath commandment- He promises it to be a blessing joining ourselves to Him Isa 56:1-6, its why the other spirit attacks God's Sabbath so much, even changed the day to confuse everyone just as we were told would happen in our Bibles Dan 7:25. Our Bibles tell us the whole world will be deceived and you will not find Sunday sacredness in our Bibles anywhere, its not a commandment of God, not sanctified by God, just a man-made tradition people use in place of God's Sabbath commandment. Man can't sanctify a day, nor can they sanctify themselves, Isa 66:17 God connects both of these with the Sabbath Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11 Eze 20:12

I am telling you the truth here, so stop allowing the SDA church or whoever taught you these things to dictate how you should live your life. Be led by the Holy Spirit, not man-made false doctrine.

You do know its the Holy Spirit who wrote the Ten Commandments, the Spirit of Truth and then wrote His law in our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 and the Sabbath you are calling false doctrine God in His own Words claimed it as My holy day, the holy day of the Lord Isa 58:13Keeping the Sabbath day holy was never a suggestion, but its a commandment of God Exo 20:8-11 that has not be abrogated in Scripture. Your displeasure is not directed at me- Eze 22:26. The Scriptures is what taught me about the Sabbath, God even gave the Sabbath a preparation day Mark 15:42 that is how important it is to God and its written all throughout our Bibles from the beginning Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3 to the end Isa 66:22-23 Rev 22:14, your grievances is not really with me. Jesus told us quoting OT to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God Mat 4:4, its up to us to change our lifestyle around His word, His word does not change around us. Guess we will have to agree to disagree and this will all sort out soon enough.

 

[Postvieww]

Please look at item #2 and #3

Are the Dead Really Dead? | Bible Study Guides | Amazing Facts

This Halloween, don't make plans to talk to your dead relative. Dive into this Bible study instead, which exposes the greatest lie ever told—where are the dead?

www.amazingfacts.org

I read the information you posted . If you will read closely 3,6,7,8&9 you should be able to clearly see the doctrine of soul sleep as I have described it. I am assuming the information you sent is published by the SDA church if that is not correct please let me know. You have been clear you do not call it soul sleep but never the less that is what it is.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I read the information you posted . If you will read closely 3,6,7,8&9 you should be able to clearly see the doctrine of soul sleep as I have described it. I am assuming the information you sent is published by the SDA church if that is not correct please let me know. You have been clear you do not call it soul sleep but never the less that is what it is.

The claim was SDA’s do not believe the spirit goes back to God when we die and this shows thats not true.

Soul sleep is not a term we use in any official teachings that I am aware of, I am sure it means different things to different people. Sleep is another word for dead according to Jesus John 11:11,14 until Jesus comes 1 Thess 4:16-17 as demonstrated by Scripture. The rewards of Judgement is given on the last day Rev 22:12 John 12:48 so it would make no sense why we would go to heaven when we die to Abrahams bosom (reward) if judgement/rewards is not given until the last day. Our spirit might go back to God, but a spirit without a body is dead James 2:28

 

[Postvieww]

The claim was SDA’s do not believe the spirit goes back to God when we die and this shows thats not true.

I made no such claim. I said they taught soul sleep which your information proves that they do. Your information clearly states the spirit is just breath with no consciousness. My claim backed by scripture is that the spirit that goes back to God is fully conscious. It appears you are trying to play word games to avoid the tough questions I have presented to you from scripture. Just because the SDA and you do not use the term soul sleep is no defense. We can call it anything you choose but the facts are clear. The spirit does not leave the body at death as a puff of unconscious breath. That is false doctrine.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The claim was SDA’s do not believe the spirit goes back to God when we die and this shows thats not true.

I made no such claim.

I agree, when someone dies the spirit goes back to Christ

Great but this is not the teaching of The SDA church.

 

[Postvieww]

Our spirit might go back to God, but a spirit without a body is dead James 2:28

James 2:26 (NKJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. You are contradicting yourself with the scripture you have posted. James did not say what you claim. You said just the opposite of what James said. My friend it appears the SDA had you all confused.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The spirit does not leave the body at death as a puff of unconscious breath. That is false doctrine.

The Spirit goes back to God at death, but where does the body go according to you? Are we just to ignore the teachings of Jesus and the apostles on this subject?

Where is King's David body according to Scripture?

1 Kings 2:10 Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David. ESV

Acts 2:29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.

Its easy to make accusations about someone, but I would be careful about that, especially when its going against what our Lord and Savior taught

John 11: 11 These things He said, and after that He said to them, “Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.”

12 Then His disciples said, “Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.” 13 However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.

14 Then Jesus said to them plainly, “Lazarus is dead.

Jesus never said, I have to go to Abrahams bosom to go get Lazarus, his body was decomposed after being dead for 4 days before Jesus resurrected him.

Anyway we are going in circles and this will all get sored out soon enough.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

James 2:26 (NKJV)
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. You are contradicting yourself with the scripture you have posted. James did not say what you claim. You said just the opposite of what James said. My friend it appears the SDA had you all confused.

Yes, I wrote that after a long day, my bad

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Seems clear to me

 

[Postvieww]

If you use the whole context of everything I have said about the spirit you should see what the difference is between what I said and the false teachings of the SDA church. When I say spirit it is a fully conscious spirit. When you use the word spirit it is an unconscious breath of air. I will not play these word games with you . What I said is accurate if you use the scriptural meaning of the Spirit of man. The SDA definition of an unconscious puff of breath is false and does not define what I have said.

 

[Postvieww]

The Spirit goes back to God at death, but where does the body go according to you? Are we just to ignore the teachings of Jesus and the apostles on this subject?

. At physical death the body returns to dust and the soul or spirit returns to God.

not his earthly physical body, that body was dead and sometimes referred to asleep in the grave awaiting a bodily resurrection

I have not ignored the teachings of Jesus or that of scripture but it does appear to me that the SDA church had you confused on this matter.

 

[Postvieww]

Jesus never said, I have to go to Abrahams bosom to go get Lazarus, his body was decomposed after being dead for 4 days before Jesus resurrected him.

Abraham’s bosom was in the heart of the earth , heaven is not there. Heaven is where God dwells Jesus is currently there and will return in the sky not from the heart of the earth.

 

[Beth77]

The rest, including those who followed Satan after his release, Rev 20:7-9, will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

The rest, including those who followed Satan after his release, Rev 20:7-9, will be thrown into the Lake of Fire.

What will happen to them in the Lake of Fire?

 

[keras]

What will happen to them in the Lake of Fire?

All those whose names are not found in the Book of Life, will be flung into the Lake of Fire. Revelation 20:14-15
This means annihilation, as remembrance of them will be forgotten and never again brought to mind.