Jesus and John Wayne book

peaceful-forest · Sunday at 12:28 PM

Awhile back I had bought a book written by Kristin Kobes Du Mez called "Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation".

I had hopes that this book would explain to me why some of the crazy people I encounter on Gab are the way they are. However, I find the book somewhat difficult to read. It seems that it was written for people who had grown up in false Christianity or they are familiar with the false Christianity that is present in the United States. I had concerns about the accuracy of the information presented in the book. I also didn't like some of the political things the author brought up. I felt that her political beliefs compromised her writing and prevented her from calling out falsehood accurately (or made her look like a hypocrite at times).

I was wondering if anyone else has read this book, or has attempted to read it? What did you think of it?

PloverWing · Sunday at 2:11 PM

We have an ongoing book club at my church, and this is one of the books we read together. I'm old enough that I lived through much of what she describes. I grew up Southern Baptist, attended Evangelical schools for K-12 and college, and attended one of Bill Gothard's seminars in my teens. I left the Evangelical community in the 1980s, when I joined the Episcopal Church, but I've kept in touch with Evangelicalism through publications like Christianity Today and news from my alma mater (Wheaton College).

I didn't directly witness everything Du Mez talks about, but what I did witness is consistent with the story she tells. Our priest, who is a generation younger than me but who also grew up in an Evangelical church, was able to vouch for some of the more recent elements, like Mark Driscoll and purity culture.

The strong support of Evangelicals for Trump's presidency has totally baffled me. Du Mez' story is one plausible way to connect the dots. (I've also heard people -- David Brooks, for example -- tell other stories that connect the dots differently.)

I'm not surprised that Du Mez talked about political issues, since the interaction of religion and politics is one of the themes of her book. But I'd be interested in hearing you describe some of the places where you see her political beliefs compromising her writing and her accuracy.

I also note that you identify as Nondenominational, so you have a first-hand view of what's going on in Evangelical churches right now. If your thought is "that's not like my church at all", that's worthwhile to know.

chevyontheriver · Sunday at 5:57 PM

peaceful-forest said:
Awhile back I had bought a book written by Kristin Kobes Du Mez called "Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation".

I had hopes that this book would explain to me why some of the crazy people I encounter on Gab are the way they are. However, I find the book somewhat difficult to read. It seems that it was written for people who had grown up in false Christianity or they are familiar with the false Christianity that is present in the United States. I had concerns about the accuracy of the information presented in the book. I also didn't like some of the political things the author brought up. I felt that her political beliefs compromised her writing and prevented her from calling out falsehood accurately (or made her look like a hypocrite at times).

I was wondering if anyone else has read this book, or has attempted to read it? What did you think of it?

View attachment 364518

Haven't read the book or even heard of it. But John Wayne did leave the evangelicals behind to join the Catholic Church. That was two days before he died. His grandson, Fr. Matthew Muñoz, accounts for it. My 'granddaddy' John Wayne, actor and Catholic convert

So however the book went, Jesus had his hooks in to John Wayne and in the end that had little to do with evangelicals.

PloverWing · Sunday at 7:17 PM

The title of the book, by the way, comes from this song:

mourningdove~ · Sunday at 8:37 PM

PloverWing said:
We have an ongoing book club at my church, and this is one of the books we read together. I'm old enough that I lived through much of what she describes. I grew up Southern Baptist, attended Evangelical schools for K-12 and college, and attended one of Bill Gothard's seminars in my teens. I left the Evangelical community in the 1980s, when I joined the Episcopal Church, but I've kept in touch with Evangelicalism through publications like Christianity Today and news from my alma mater (Wheaton College).

I love Jesus, and I very much like John Wayne, so the title has me curious.
I just bought the book.

I was in the evangelical churches in the 80's and 90's. (Even did a Bill Gothard seminar! I recall it being abit odd, but went to it with some good friends who were into his stuff.) All that seemed pretty harmless back then, but recently I connected with some evangelical women in my area for a Bible study and things have certainly changed! In the study materials they use (usually Lifeway), I see this steady, subtle promotion of modern feminism and egalitarianism that just wasn't there in the past. The thinking in evangelical churches ... about male and female roles in the family and in church life ... seems to have radically changed.

It may aggravate me to read this book ... again, I like John Wayne and his rugged masculinity that some now want to make out as a 'bad' thing ... but maybe reading this book will help me to understand some of the changes that the evangelical churches have undergone while I've been away.

Tuur · Sunday at 9:15 PM

mourningdove~ said:
It may aggravate me to read this book ... again, I like John Wayne and his rugged masculinity that some now want to make out as a 'bad' thing ... but maybe reading this book will help me to understand some of the changes that the evangelical churches have undergone while I've been away.

If you want to see if the SBC has changed, compare the last Baptist Faith and Message with the previous versions. The current version is a quarter century old this year, so it's dated. Also check out the Lifeway literature, both Sunday School and Training Union texts as well as magazines like Home Life. Resolutions made at each annual convention is another resource.

chevyontheriver · Monday at 2:41 PM

PloverWing said:
The title of the book, by the way, comes from this song:

That was painful.

mourningdove~ · Monday at 6:11 PM

chevyontheriver said:
That was painful.

Maybe it's just that you don't like CW music, but I actually found the message to be abit disturbing.

It is disturbing to me, that our society continues to encourage men to 'soften up'.
This messaging has been going on for years now, and I'd say it's been pretty effective. Unfortunately.

The author of this book would of course greatly disagree with me.
She sees the Evangelical White Masculine Male as a major problem in America.

mourningdove~ · Monday at 7:18 PM

peaceful-forest said:
I had hopes that this book would explain to me why some of the crazy people I encounter on Gab are the way they are. However, I find the book somewhat difficult to read. It seems that it was written for people who had grown up in false Christianity or they are familiar with the false Christianity that is present in the United States. I had concerns about the accuracy of the information presented in the book. I also didn't like some of the political things the author brought up. I felt that her political beliefs compromised her writing and prevented her from calling out falsehood accurately (or made her look like a hypocrite at times).

I was wondering if anyone else has read this book, or has attempted to read it? What did you think of it?

I approached this book 'open minded', also hoping it might provide helpful insight into current church problems. But instead, it just proved to be a 'hit piece' on White Evangelicals, particularly the White Evangelical Masculine Male.

I chose to 'speed read' thru the book as it sometimes read like a tabloid newspaper., and I wasn't interested in reading all the author's woke opinions. It was abit enjoyable to me, to be reminded of persons and events of the past that I was familiar with and had forgotten, but the author wrote this book thru the lens of her left-wing woke ideology. I, too, felt that her political bias greatly compromised her writing.

Throughout the book, the author puts extreme emphasis on 'whiteness', and particularly on the white masculine male ... as if he is a curse to mankind.

She definitely does not like John Wayne, or any man who appears to even wear a cowboy hat! lol
(George W. Bush)

She actually refers to Donald Trump as "the reincarnation of John Wayne".

She really makes John Wayne out to be a horrible example of a man ...
she tears down the Republican Presidents ...
and blames White Evangelicals for voting for them!

On the other hand, she speaks highly of Barack Obama.
When she referred to Hillary Clinton as "a devoted Christian", she lost me.
(But then, that shows my political bias, doesn't it? lol)

All in all, the read was probably beneficial for me to see how one young, woke Christian woman interprets the events of the past. I did research the author abit, and was not surprised to learn that she thinks highly of Evangelical Bible teacher Beth Moore. (Towards the end of the book, the author gets into a discussion about complementarianism.)

The one thing that does disturb me about this book is the title: "How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation". The author blames White Evangelicals for the problems in Christianity, and in America. That just is historically inaccurate and untrue; White Evangelicals are not responsible for all the problems. But if enough people "buy into" her idea, it could one day make life in America very difficult for White Evangelicals, should the government and too many within the general population decide that White Evangelicals need to be removed from our society because they are seen as 'the problem'. The title is troublesome, and very divisive.

peaceful-forest · Wednesday at 4:47 PM

PloverWing said:
I'm not surprised that Du Mez talked about political issues, since the interaction of religion and politics is one of the themes of her book. But I'd be interested in hearing you describe some of the places where you see her political beliefs compromising her writing and her accuracy.

I also note that you identify as Nondenominational, so you have a first-hand view of what's going on in Evangelical churches right now. If your thought is "that's not like my church at all", that's worthwhile to know.

When I did attend church, I primarily went to Baptist churches. While I am aware of some patriarchy things that did happen in those churches, it was not at the level that was described in the book or what I hear from others.

When I read the preface of the book, I recalled Trump's first term differently than she did. I felt that his first term was about helping Americans and getting the country back on track whereas Du Mez was more worried about his "aggressive, testosterone-driven masculinity" and his views on immigrants, Muslims, and Haiti. I found it appalling that she made Biden out to be the good guy after the 2020 election because he said "good things" like quoting the Bible. In a section that was related to Obama's presidency, she claimed that "nearly two-thirds of white evangelicals harbored fears that a once-powerful nation had become 'too soft and feminine'." I was under the impression that she was defending homosexuality.

DragonFox91 · 2025-05-09T07:27:19-0500

I think one of the things they did was think since they had built a thriving economy they thought the Kingdom was at hand. They thought they were somehow a continuation of Israel. You still see this today. The Bible does not say a thriving economy of one country means the 2nd Coming is near. They were in denial world is still bad. A lot of Christianity still is

They thought that since church attendance was high too that meant the 2nd Coming was near. The Bible does not say high church attendance means the 2nd Coming is near

Prosperity is often tied into Christianity here. Sometimes it's the other way around, where the world is bad but we can fix it for the 2nd Coming

mourningdove~ · 2025-05-10T08:33:01-0500

peaceful-forest said:
When I read the preface of the book, I recalled Trump's first term differently than she did.

Me, too.

I do believe the Evangelical movement in America is interesting, and worth reflecting upon ... but the author did it all from a political perspective. That's where she missed the boat, imo.

Jesus and John Wayne book

Well-Known Member

Episcopalian

Well-Known Member

Episcopalian

"Pray, and prepare ..."

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

"Pray, and prepare ..."

"Pray, and prepare ..."

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

"Pray, and prepare ..."

Similar threads